Muhammed- The Peadophile

Originally posted by Nellinator
but I think there is sufficient evidence to argue for a global flood.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Historical account would be slightly off as it is not an objective history of the time period. It is more of a biography as it focuses on Joseph alone and its purpose in the Bible would have been an account of the founding of the tribes of Israel which is extremely important in Jewish history. The moral is definitely there, but it does not seem to be the most important part of the story as the account is not moral orientated.

I think that the global flood and the rise in sea levels are actually seperate events. It is simply a common explanation that is given.

Well then we are not in disagreement.

No. Mabe we should start a flood thread?

Mayhaps.

The Lord said to Noah: there's gonna be a floody, floody
The Lord said to Noah: there's gonna be a floody, floody
Get those children out of the muddy, muddy
Children of the Lord

So, rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Children of the Lord

The Lord told Noah to build him an arky, arky
The Lord told Noah to build him an arky, arky
Build it out of gopher barky, barky, children of the Lord

So, rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Children of the Lord

The animals, they came in, they came in by twosie, twosies
The animals, they came in, they came in by twosie, twosies
Elephants and kangaroosie, roosies, children of the Lord

So, rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Children of the Lord

It rained and it rained for forty days and nights and daysies
It rained and it rained for forty days and nights and daysies
Almost drove those animals crazy, crazy, children of the Lord

So, rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Children of the Lord

Then Noah he sent out, he sent out a dovey, dovey
Noah he sent out, he sent out a dovey, dovey
Dovey said "There's clear skies abovey-bovey", children of the Lord

So, rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Children of the Lord

The sun came out and dried up the landy, landy
The sun came out and dried up the landy, landy
Everything was fine and dandy, dandy, children of the Lord

So, rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Children of the Lord

The animals came off, came off in threesies, threesies
The animals came off in threesies, threesies
Must have been the birds and beesies, beesies

So, rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Children of the Lord

Now, this is the end of, the end of my story, story
This is the end of, the end of my story, story
Everything is hunky dory, dory, children of the Lord

So, rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Rise and shine, and give God the glory, glory
Children of the Lord

fact: islam is singled out and portrayed more badly than it's believers actually practice it most of the time. most people are not really true believers according to the quran.

fact: it is MUCH MORE TABOO{to a dangerous extent} to say sumthing openly against islam in an islamic country than saying things about the bible in america/britian, NOT central europe though where it can be very much more dangerous

fact: no1 can be a true muslim due to the self contradictory nature of quran on top of devotion to the extent of madness

fact: islam mostly spread to cultures and countries with strong traditional values and opression with little room for liberalism, hence it was ASSIMILATED in the culture better {in this case strictly islam is not the cause of oppression but a FACILITATER as it allowes the old practices to continue in pakistan, india, srilanka, iraq, quwait, middle east{exception of jordan, palestine-----yea u heard me palastenians are quite liberal as far as persoanl relegion is concerned, and half od turkey}} it is not followed but it allowes the activity to openly continue or doesnt OPENLY or whole heartedly oppose it. and it also gives MORE oppurtunities to create dogmas and taboos which cater to humanity's repressive needs{which is an actual but rather small contributiuon} . in all these cases islam isnt really being followed, its old customs coplimented by a rather perverted {but not to an extent many claim as it allowes this perversion through paradoxes and imbalance and self contradiction in statements} version of islam. thas why we shudnt just blame everything on islam . although if islam WERE to be followed truly without any cultural perversion, many things would get better but many things would get a lot verse{so overal its bad anyway which is why i dont feal the need to correct any1 who without really knowing much blames islam for a social/traditional problem}

fact: islam is NOT any more violent or worse or anti human than any other organised relegion like christianity, judaism, hinduism{not buddhism though} and we, atleast those who care for the trith wud do well to remember that. its actually even worse overall as the unadulterated dogma than portrayed by the biased media but so is CHRISTIANITY,JUDAISM,HINDUISM. why we only think islam is unique is cause of the very very very much biased viewpoint of even the most respectable channels like bbc or cnn.

fact: although not the cause, islam allowes death by stoning of the man and the woman found doing fornication . so yea honour killings are not out of the picture as islam ORDERS u to kill the fornicaters man or woman so there goes the argument that its not in islam. also a woman has NO real rights to fall in love or marry a man{hijaab, she can never be around potential husbands or sexually mature boys without a family member and can never talk freely on top of being brainwashed into being pasive and inferior. so there goes the idea of actually KNOWING sum1 or falling in love. all she can do is say no to a SUITOR who she knows nothing about and her parents's decision is said to be best for her in islam{self contradictory see} PERSIOD and disobeying to their command is second only to disobeying god. hmm i wonder if she really has a right to CHOOSE{whatever that means as theres no such thing as love in islam between the sexes} and if she RUNS away with a man not to fornicate but to get married, the family's men have one of not two very good relegious reasons to commit her murder and protect their HONOUR. ofcourse thas not really the motivation as i explained before, the places in which these things happens, islam only acts as a FACILITATER and allower as these things have been happening in those places far before islam came and its really tradition which is the driving force behind it{as i said before}

FACT!: ALL PEOPLE WHO TRY TO DEFEND ISLAM TO AN UNREASONABLE EXTENT ARE EITHER IGNORANT/BLIND OR DUM BRAINWASHED BELIEVERS!

Originally posted by leonheartmm
fact: islam is singled out and portrayed more badly than it's believers actually practice it most of the time. most people are not really true believers according to the quran.

fact: it is MUCH MORE TABOO{to a dangerous extent} to say sumthing openly against islam in an islamic country than saying things about the bible in america/britian, NOT central europe though where it can be very much more dangerous

fact: no1 can be a true muslim due to the self contradictory nature of quran on top of devotion to the extent of madness

fact: islam mostly spread to cultures and countries with strong traditional values and opression with little room for liberalism, hence it was ASSIMILATED in the culture better {in this case strictly islam is not the cause of oppression but a FACILITATER as it allowes the old practices to continue in pakistan, india, srilanka, iraq, quwait, middle east{exception of jordan, palestine-----yea u heard me palastenians are quite liberal as far as persoanl relegion is concerned, and half od turkey}} it is not followed but it allowes the activity to openly continue or doesnt OPENLY or whole heartedly oppose it. and it also gives MORE oppurtunities to create dogmas and taboos which cater to humanity's repressive needs{which is an actual but rather small contributiuon} . in all these cases islam isnt really being followed, its old customs coplimented by a rather perverted {but not to an extent many claim as it allowes this perversion through paradoxes and imbalance and self contradiction in statements} version of islam. thas why we shudnt just blame everything on islam . although if islam WERE to be followed truly without any cultural perversion, many things would get better but many things would get a lot verse{so overal its bad anyway which is why i dont feal the need to correct any1 who without really knowing much blames islam for a social/traditional problem}

fact: islam is NOT any more violent or worse or anti human than any other organised relegion like christianity, judaism, hinduism{not buddhism though} and we, atleast those who care for the trith wud do well to remember that. its actually even worse overall as the unadulterated dogma than portrayed by the biased media but so is CHRISTIANITY,JUDAISM,HINDUISM. why we only think islam is unique is cause of the very very very much biased viewpoint of even the most respectable channels like bbc or cnn.

fact: although not the cause, islam allowes death by stoning of the man and the woman found doing fornication . so yea honour killings are not out of the picture as islam ORDERS u to kill the fornicaters man or woman so there goes the argument that its not in islam. also a woman has NO real rights to fall in love or marry a man{hijaab, she can never be around potential husbands or sexually mature boys without a family member and can never talk freely on top of being brainwashed into being pasive and inferior. so there goes the idea of actually KNOWING sum1 or falling in love. all she can do is say no to a SUITOR who she knows nothing about and her parents's decision is said to be best for her in islam{self contradictory see} PERSIOD and disobeying to their command is second only to disobeying god. hmm i wonder if she really has a right to CHOOSE{whatever that means as theres no such thing as love in islam between the sexes} and if she RUNS away with a man not to fornicate but to get married, the family's men have one of not two very good relegious reasons to commit her murder and protect their HONOUR. ofcourse thas not really the motivation as i explained before, the places in which these things happens, islam only acts as a FACILITATER and allower as these things have been happening in those places far before islam came and its really tradition which is the driving force behind it{as i said before}

FACT!: ALL PEOPLE WHO TRY TO DEFEND ISLAM TO AN UNREASONABLE EXTENT ARE EITHER IGNORANT/BLIND OR DUM BRAINWASHED BELIEVERS!

Id agree with alot of that or all of that.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Id agree with alot of that or all of that.

Me too (most, not all), except for the last part where I feel its implied that my defense of Islam is done so to an unreasonable extent.

Originally posted by Alliance
Me too (most, not all), except for the last part where I feel its implied that my defense of Islam is done so to an unreasonable extent.

i wasnt really referring to u. just people i general{suppose u havent lived in a traditional muslim country so u have a reason to think the way u do, but take it from a person who was born and raised in an average/slightky better off , traditional family in pakistan, who was muslim, devoutly for the first 12-14 years of his life and who actually knows what the normal people think and do and has been actually beaten up pretty badly for his agnostic/atheistic beliefs by otherwise quite reasonable people. islam is a bad relegion. } the people i was really referring to are many of the neo muslim scholars{zakir naik} etc. who, through clever play of words and undermining the OPPOSITE relegion believe that theyve proved a point beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the people i was really referring to are many of the neo muslim scholars{zakir naik} etc. who, through clever play of words and undermining the OPPOSITE relegion believe that theyve proved a point beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I know what you mean. I think Yusuf Islam is one...I cant quite remember.

basically all the idiots from the dawah academy, zakir naik, yusum islam, yusuf estems, ibrahim green, israar ahmed, ahmed deedat, and oh so many more bastards bringing a new and improved layer of deception to the spreading of a primitive dogma that should have been seen as idiotic and forgotten. theyr trying to reverse the process and AGAIN model people's RATOINAL minds to thinking that islam is true from all scientific and logical perspectives.{search, PEACETV , ull find out, its like a muslim preaching channel controlled by this lot like bible channels, its on all the damn time in my house cause my dear mum just loves watching it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
basically all the idiots from the dawah academy, zakir naik, yusum islam, yusuf estems, ibrahim green, israar ahmed, ahmed deedat, and oh so many more bastards bringing a new and improved layer of deception to the spreading of a primitive dogma that should have been seen as idiotic and forgotten. theyr trying to reverse the process and AGAIN model people's RATOINAL minds to thinking that islam is true from all scientific and logical perspectives.{search, PEACETV , ull find out, its like a muslim preaching channel controlled by this lot like bible channels, its on all the damn time in my house cause my dear mum just loves watching it.

I used to be muslim ive been through all that. It doesnt help Islam in the fact that Yusuf Islam said that the challenger spacecraft was shot don by Allah and Yusuf Islam is supposed to be nice.

Originally posted by Alliance
Me too (most, not all), except for the last part where I feel its implied that my defense of Islam is done so to an unreasonable extent.

I think people are confusing you with the Islam appologists a few pages back that were throwing around the "phobias"

From what I've seen you defence is pretty balanced

to make a point more than just kiss ass, I know personally it is hard not to be defensive when discussing this since there are people who will label someone as racist for holding a negative view of Islam. I was called a racist by one of my TAs in a university level religion class (In front of the class in the middle of a discussion btw) for thinking that it was ok to draw cartoons of Muhammed.

Originally posted by inimalist

From what I've seen you defence is pretty balanced

I dunno he seems a bit irrational. When he says things like Buddhism is unrealistic because it rejects violence but kills himself trying to defend Islam, I dunno. He also makes statements about Islam when he doesnt know his facts and makes assumptions.

Originally posted by Alliance
Since always.

I haven't seen one SHREAD of proof saying honor killings are justified in Islam.

I know honor killings happen, but they don't happen because of Islam. You're making false conclusions because you are a bigot and have no desire but to build Islam up to be some sort of titan of terror.

Honestly, with your infinate (i.e. pile of shit) knowledge of Islam. Surely it wouldn't be hard for you to prove that Islam is such an abomination by showing me where honor killings are supported in Muslim holy texts.

SHOW ME I'M WRONG. (as opposed to telling me when you ourself have zero credibility) Can you do this? Or are you going to just keep telling me how stupid you think I am? You're an emparrsement to modern society and to all of mankind.

Allience, get your head out of your ass.

You have NEVER read the Qur'an or Hadith, you don't know BASIC history of Islam, yet you constantly parade around with ignorance.

Had you known any Islam, you would challenge me with Qur'anic verses and Hadiths not with ''you are racist'' bullshit.
I know Islam better than you in any case, having grown up in and around it and all.

I have provided you with verses from Hadiths, with knowledge from Muslims themselves.

All you're doing is shitting your pants guessing, speculating and assuming because you don't know better. Its sad, repetitive and tiering.

LMAO its always nice to see mods taks a more........ACTIVE part in the discussion.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Allience, get your head out of your ass.

You have NEVER read the Qur'an or Hadith, you don't know BASIC history of Islam, yet you constantly parade around with ignorance.

Had you known any Islam, you would challenge me with Qur'anic verses and Hadiths not with ''you are racist'' bullshit.
I know Islam better than you in any case, having grown up in and around it and all.

I have provided you with verses from Hadiths, with knowledge from Muslims themselves.

All you're doing is shitting your pants guessing, speculating and assuming because you don't know better. Its sad, repetitive and tiering.

I've never called you "racist."

Evidence???

Originally posted by Alliance
I've never called you "racist."

Evidence???

But you called her a "bigot", and I think that's what she's reffering to.

----

Alliance, have you ever read the Koran or is she right?

I have not read the Quran in its entirety. However, I don't find that I need to have read the Quran in its entirety to

1. Tell that her sources are biased.
2. To read secondary sources that contradict her positions on Islam.

Originally posted by Eis

When I said this I was talking about Islamic values today and I should have made it clear, I meant covering their heads. I know that Muhammed didn't say women have to cover their heads but the hijab issue was made pretty clear by Sunnan Abu Dawood, one of the six major Sunni hadith collections. I could find the verse if you like but I'm sure you know I am not lying .

Originally posted by Eis

As for the "work in the kitchen and raise kids" I know english is not your first language but it was pretty clear that when I said those things it wasn't in a "as matter of fact" way, it was just a satirical comparison of Islam's way of dealing with women and American 50s idea of what women were supposed to be like. However, it's still completely screwed up that women in some Islamic countries have to get permission from their husbands to work, and even if there is no particular hadith or Quranic verse that explicitly instructs that, it happens because of the way the Quran and the Islamic faith imprints it on every muslim that women are not as good as men. Can you not see what they say about women when they say that they only get half the inheritance their brothers get? Or that there has to be 8 female witnesses to a rape or 4 males? You are so blind to the blatant sexism your faith promotes, you even attempt to justify it.

Oh god and u call me a blind ..Before u state that women get half the inheritance than men ..look at the other side of this issue ..Men HAVE to spend on their wives and sisters its an order even if she had billions .As for rape it doesn’t mention to bring witnesses only in adultery .. Nothing in Quran or Hadith mentioned that women are not good as men .don't be silly ……

Originally posted by Eis

I never claimed the Quran said "If your wife doesn't pass the salt when you ask her to, punch her in the stomach and choke her for a while" it does however say to beat your wives as a last resort if they are disobedient, it doesnt say anything about a toothpick. And beating ones wives, to us in the western world, is considered wrong, under any circumstance.

Originally posted by Eis

Oh! So maybe we shouldn't stone adulterers to death, we should just flog them then? God, the sweet little merciful thing you are! Any type of violent action against an adulterer, again to us in the western world (granted I actually currently live in the east, but whatever) is seen as wrong. And I believe it to be uncool as well.

Are you aware of the consequences ??