U.S. Soldiers can be criminals too...

Originally posted by Alliance
I could just send you part of a paper I wrote on it.

The military is the backbone of democracy...always has been. Citizen-soldiers are the most powerful testament to core democratic beliefs. The state and the military are inseperable; they are the guardians of the state.

In the context of modern nationalism, there is no more effective way at creating a basic level of unity than a properly structured mandatory service. It can a sense of pan-identity centered around the preeservation of democracy.

Why should you recieve the benefits of the state if you would not serve it? In my opinon, franchisement should be based on service, not on birthright.

That was abstract and i feel very sick, so I don't think I'm speaking clearly.

That's of course being a little 1-Dimensional. There are many jobs just as useful as being a soldier. That the army on the whole is perhaps necessary for a country to function (not factually) does not make it reasonable to get everyone to serve it. That would certainly be against all ideals of a free country. And of course there are much more important institutions (non-state institutions even) that have to be considered more important to the live the citizens are leading as well as the existence and importance of the nation itself.

[QUOTE=]Originally posted by Alliance

Is it wrong, yes. F*cks like me who hve never served really shouldn't be commenting. The military sohuld be respected as a branc of government, but the politics of 9-11 far surpassed the "you're hurting the troops mentality" which is nothign historically.
[/QUOTE]

On a different note, I am sure you feel not as strongly when people comment on the President being dumb (factually), the Supreme Court being biased or the Congress doing shit.

Why should this particular branch, be singled out? Why can't you comment and criticize them?

I've never been Chancellor of Germany, I will still call her a **** if she does something I feel is wrong.

so, shall we flag wave and beat our chests or can we acknowlegde there there is in fact a minority of soldiers in the army which are homocidal madmen who murder in cold blood, and well get away with it because of unusually relaxed restrictions/scrutinisation? granted, the fog of war has always cast many warcrimes into obscurity and hearsay, and this can never be helped. however there seems to be a system in place of "anything goes" with no accountability. so even when they are caught redhanded with witnesses, its swept under the rug.

playing the 'you dont support our troops!' card, or the 'you dont know a damn thing they're going through so you should shut up' card is not wise imho.

i dont think the OP suggests that human error should be punishable. like, some crosseyed target painter mistakenly lights up a preschool. its war, and stupid/brutal shit will happen.

however there must be accountability and oversight by senior military officials. today they allow criminals to exist within their ranks and wont do a thing to stop them until blatantly encriminating photos show up on the 6 oclock news and then its "this was a freak occurance"

supporting our troops, imho, also involves weeding out the lunatics and loose cannons. which endanger them on many levels though their actions, and endanger we the people when they return home.

Originally posted by botankus
At first glance I thought this dude was quoting some stand-up comedian. At second glance I realized he did a poor job of backing up Bardocky's statement in the abortion thread.

actually no, the abortion thread is hopelessly based on people's beliefs and doesnt have a lot to do with discussion so i dont visit anymore, after posting questions which no1 answered satisfactorily at the time. and the reason i sound like a stand up comedian is cause the reality and what the general media{whether bloody fox or the rather seemingly respectable CNN/BBC } are POLES apart. if you actually live in certain places of the world or go to and visit certain other hotspots, youll find that most AUTHENTIC links and channels are portaying the stage SOOOOO fallaciously that its hard to even get a right voice out. and its all systematic{be forwarned that i never really believed much of what i write now until i had the chance to actually see what happened, how it happened, nor was/am i too fond of conspiracy theories. i was a bit like anybody else in oppinion{nor am i a relegious follower btw}} and coordinated in such a way that the onslaught of information is designed to make even OPPOSIOTON of the people in power, believe in a reality which is at the very least a hundred times more clear/conspiracy free/true/better than whats really happening. ofcourse if i tell you now that the planes claimed to have crashed in the twin towers were not actually the ones that crashed, youd laugh at me{and with good reason}. ofcourse if i tell you that the towers were brought down by explosions having nothing to do with the planes, youd rightly laugh at me. ofcourse if i tell you that there isnt a single shred of plane debris from the crash at the pentagon, youd say im lying. if i were to further tell you that america has been for a significant amount of time, actively using funds to fund wars, genocide,instability and general chaos in its opposing countried and most of the third world, ud probably tell others to stay away from me too. so "I" admit that im in a rather weak position to make any1 believe these stories and hence dont tell people to generally, since logically, they SHUDNT believe me. but trust me, if you wud sincerely do some research on the subject, not motivated and affected by your surrounding, and the hurdles{rather invisible} set up by your and some other governments, youd find that most of the top tier of american society{economic, motivationall, politicall, relegious} have more blood on their hands then perhaps the wrest of the world combined{n that includes the natzis}. but, then again, who m i trying to convince, it probably seems like im trying to convince people that aliens exist.

leon, I don't doubt your facts, I have just always believed that most fallacies start at the top. I can't disagree that there are bad apple troops prone to unethical violence (hell, there was that dude that rolled the grenade into his own platoon's tent, for crying out loud), but I just think it's unjustified to call them dumb spelled "dumm" like they're out of Uncle Remus or something.

Originally posted by botankus
leon, I don't doubt your facts, I have just always believed that most fallacies start at the top. I can't disagree that there are bad apple troops prone to unethical violence (hell, there was that dude that rolled the grenade into his own platoon's tent, for crying out loud), but I just think it's unjustified to call them dumb spelled "dumm" like they're out of Uncle Remus or something.

im not calling every 1 dum. i lost a good friend, two actually. an american soldier and a medic both in iraq. still, there are only two motivation factors for joining the american military, ignorance{and brainwashing leading to patriotis}, or need of money. they do intermingle but i do know that almost a majority joins for the first reason, while the second is an added bonus. even so many are turned by the military from normal men to dutiful, order following soldiers who are often cruel, disreguard people other than americans and generally feal good doing it{all with america's significant, fractional obsession with violence, ethnocentrism etc}. im not insinuating that every is like that in the society or the organisation but specially in the military, a vast{and exponentially increasing percentage} have no problem at all in doing anything morally wrong{i mean, killing, raping, having non altruistic motives, disreguarding the rights and value of others.}

[QUOTE=]Originally posted by leonheartmm
im not calling every 1 dum. i lost a good friend, two actually. an american soldier and a medic both in iraq. still, there are only two motivation factors for joining the american military, ignorance{and brainwashing leading to patriotis}, or need of money. they do intermingle but i do know that almost a majority joins for the first reason, while the second is an added bonus. even so many are turned by the military from normal men to dutiful, order following soldiers who are often cruel, disreguard people other than americans and generally feal good doing it{all with america's significant, fractional obsession with violence, ethnocentrism etc}. im not insinuating that every is like that in the society or the organisation but specially in the military, a vast{and exponentially increasing percentage} have no problem at all in doing anything morally wrong{i mean, killing, raping, having non altruistic motives, disreguarding the rights and value of others.} [/QUOTE]

Dude, he actually spelt the word out for you. It's "dumb". Your evident proximity to the very concept of it should enable you to remember its rather trivial spelling....though to be fair, perhaps not.

Originally posted by Bardock42
[QUOTE=]Originally posted by leonheartmm
[B]im not calling every 1 dum. i lost a good friend, two actually. an american soldier and a medic both in iraq. still, there are only two motivation factors for joining the american military, ignorance{and brainwashing leading to patriotis}, or need of money. they do intermingle but i do know that almost a majority joins for the first reason, while the second is an added bonus. even so many are turned by the military from normal men to dutiful, order following soldiers who are often cruel, disreguard people other than americans and generally feal good doing it{all with america's significant, fractional obsession with violence, ethnocentrism etc}. im not insinuating that every is like that in the society or the organisation but specially in the military, a vast{and exponentially increasing percentage} have no problem at all in doing anything morally wrong{i mean, killing, raping, having non altruistic motives, disreguarding the rights and value of others.}

Dude, he actually spelt the word out for you. It's "dumb". Your evident proximity to the very concept of it should enable you to remember its rather trivial spelling....though to be fair, perhaps not. [/B][/QUOTE]

funny, i didnt feal any proximity to it until u decided to address me. i use minimal spellings online, or are you saying YOUR evident proximity to the word makes you unable to see that dum=dumb?????{let me know without hesitation and ill start using the full rules of classical english grammer for you}

Originally posted by leonheartmm

funny, i didnt feal any proximity to it until u decided to address me. i use minimal spellings online, or are you saying YOUR evident proximity to the word makes you unable to see that dum=dumb?????{let me know without hesitation and ill start using the full rules of classical english grammer for you}

No, I was saying....what I actually wrote down.

But it will be very appreciated if you would use the rules.

Thanks.

Also, I don't see how "grammer" opposed to "grammar" qualifies as minimal spelling, but that's just me.

[edit] Also, could you try to use paragraphs, to make it easier to read?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
Dude, he actually spelt the word out for you. It's "dumb". Your evident proximity to the very concept of it should enable you to remember its rather trivial spelling....though to be fair, perhaps not.

funny, i didnt feal any proximity to it until u decided to address me. i use minimal spellings online, or are you saying YOUR evident proximity to the word makes you unable to see that dum=dumb?????{let me know without hesitation and ill start using the full rules of classical english grammer for you} [/B][/QUOTE]

Can you use it for me too? I would really appreciate it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, I was saying....what I actually wrote down.

But it will be very appreciated if you would use the rules.

Thanks.

Also, I don't see how "grammer" opposed to "grammar" qualifies as minimal spelling, but that's just me.

[edit] Also, could you try to use paragraphs, to make it easier to read?

blame it on anxiety/general mental agitation/boredom. aaaaand, i find, that one thinks better when they pay more attention to the content of the writing as opposed to what alphabets to use{not class, just online} as thats more tradition and the sound of the word can be transmitted equally well by others.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
blame it on anxiety/general mental agitation/boredom. aaaaand, i find, that one thinks better when they pay more attention to the content of the writing as opposed to what alphabets to use{not class, just online} as thats more tradition and the sound of the word can be transmitted equally well by others.

Yet it's often harder to read their clear thoughts because they way they write it sucks. Meaning your message doesn't come across even half as well, as it would if you would have written it in normal English.

Originally posted by Scythe
[b]but others see it nothing as an escape from life. [/B]

Uh. Don't most people who join the military do it to escape where they at? I'm only speaking from personal experience but most everyone I know who served (my self included) did so because they didn't think there was a better alternative, like college. But your assumption that they escape from life (and responsibility) in the military is off.

Originally posted by Scythe
[b]The gov. is funding kill tactics to would be gangbangers. They return to the states with a newfound look on killing. [/B]

Originally posted by leonheartmm
blame it on anxiety/general mental agitation/boredom. aaaaand, i find, that one thinks better when they pay more attention to the content of the writing as opposed to what alphabets to use{not class, just online} as thats more tradition and the sound of the word can be transmitted equally well by others.

It is seriously hard to understand what you mean....for me.

Anyone can be criminals too, a lawyer can be a criminal too, a police officer can be a criminal too. What point are you trying to make? Are you honestly trying to say that when commending a group of people, one should first think about the criminals, who are also part of that group? I never praise the troops because I believe what they're doing is wrong, the people they are fighting a lot of the time, are doing it because they have to or they need to for their families. This makes them as innocent as civilians in my book.

Originally posted by Alliance
Its always been this way...hell, look at the period after the civil war. The whole tactic was called "waving the bloody shirt" and was nothign compared to the practice now.

The military is political, why? Because the military is the state and proping up the military is a way to show nationalism.

True enough, though it is sort of a periodical thing. The influence of the military wanes and waxes.

[QUOTE=9030469]Originally posted by Scythe

Don't get me wrong, most soldiers out there serving our trustful men and women who lead good lives, but others see it nothing as an escape from life. The gov. is funding kill tactics to would be gangbangers. They return to the states with a newfound look on killing.

Just a thought among many...

-------------------------------------

Sigh, can't this be applied to any soldiers?

Edit: Oh well to lazy to fix it but you c it LOL

Originally posted by Scythe
[b]It's getting to me how these soldiers out there serving in Iraq are revered as heroes despite the fact that few have sinned enough to be condemned to either prison or hell. Sure they are brave and they are fighting for the freedom of this country, the U.S., but has anyone stopped and thought of the special treatment some garner?

Don't get me wrong, most soldiers out there serving our trustful men and women who lead good lives, but others see it nothing as an escape from life. The gov. is funding kill tactics to would be gangbangers. They return to the states with a newfound look on killing.

Just a thought among many... [/B]

How is the war in Iraq about our freedom?

Our freedom to buy a gallon of gasoline for under four dollars, of course!

Personally, I'll just love the day when the Middle East runs out of oil.

You've got it all wrong, I for one support our troops, but like all glorified subjects, I just wish more people out there new that these people serving aren't exactly day by day citizens.

Around 5 months ago the Los Angeles court threw out a rape case that happened sometime during Christmas time. The victim was emotionally scarred and everyone knew the guy would get his dues. Upon the end of the trial, his records showed he had served some time out in Baghdad and literally swayed the vote in his favor on account that: 'he's an American hero'.

U.S. troops are brave men and women, but they aren't gods. Ignorant people should know that by now.

And another thing!

Why reward soldiers killed out on the battlefield who have entered the military on a green card with U.S. Citizenship? They can't use it! They're dead! It makes a mockery of all legal aliens. F*ckin' pisses me off.

Why support troops more than other people? What they're doing is a career based on killing, they are no more brave than the ones they are fighting, in fact probably not as brave. Respect should be reserved for those who deserve it and in my mind, those who seek a career in which spilling blood is the target; deserve no respect.