U.S. Soldiers can be criminals too...

Started by Alliance7 pages
Originally posted by Scythe
Of course it's in the news, that's their damn job! trying askin' around, America's youth doesn't care that there are fatalities. That's my point, compare the death toll to that of WW I, back when the soldier's death actually seemed to matter. The whole country was willing to sacrifice for the soldiers, now look at society.

Are you looking in a mirror?

Originally posted by Scythe
There's still time.

Its not going to happen, if nothign else because its bad for the service.

Originally posted by Scythe
Of course it's in the news, that's their damn job!

What does that even mean? Dying is the soldier's job? Reporting is reporters' jobs? I know the point that I was illustrating is that relatively minimal death is huge news to us, something that it hasn't been before.

trying askin' around, America's youth doesn't care that there are fatalities. That's my point, compare the death toll to that of WW I, back when the soldier's death actually seemed to matter. The whole country was willing to sacrifice for the soldiers, now look at society.

You mean back during WWII when people were 'willing to sacrifice' because of propoganda instituted by the government?

There's still time.

So, basically, you have no evidence to support your claim? And I have evidence to support mine? Okay. Just checking.

I have other affairs to tend to then argue with such senile hosts. I mean, you're all missing the simple point.

Few soldiers won't get any special treatment for their horoic merit that all seem to have for just setting foot on Middle Eastern soil. Few are lying evil bastards who deserve a quick death. that is all.

And you still have yet to make a point. Roger that. Bye.

Re: U.S. Soldiers can be criminals too...

Originally posted by Scythe
...has anyone stopped and thought of the special treatment some garner?

Every job has its perks.

Originally posted by Kinneary
You need to stop talking now. You don't know anything about us, and bragging about how you're an expert because you 'know two guys in the army' is bullshit. Don't speak about what you don't understand.

Spilling blood is not the target. Keeping America and her interests safe are. Now, if you want to argue that any certain war we fight is unjust, feel free. But the military doesn't have any control over what we're told to do. We signed a piece of paper saying that we would fight where we were told, when we were told, whether we agree with it or not.

i know bloody well everything significant there is to know. lived in america actually. i understand darn well what the american army does to people in afghanistan/iraq. been to iraq, live next door to afghanistan, visited afghanistan after the war, met with osama in a gathering near the border actually before the war. been to the training camps they use. can you claim all this? i dont think so. on top of that i actually understand all the crap i read about america's reason's for doing what its doing, the facts of what it has doine in the past and why.and any fool can see the polls and people's views on the street in america. and seeing as u have a problem understanding language, i knew two people in the army who are DEAD, and that was to tell that im not completely unaffected by it as some people claim that as not knowing what happens in reality u idiot. you on the other hand dont seem to understand anything and will take a psuedo reasonable perspective to not seem extreme, which is, in the current enviornment of censorhip and information manipulation/handling, completely stupid.

actually, spilling blood is one of the targets, directly or indirectly, as it distabilises the region, lets the army men vent their frustration and encourages their sadistic drives{which helps in further missions}, and keeps the locals and the world, blaming different internal sects. the number of deaths{on both sides} are far FAR more than what you hear in the news{specialy for the civilians}. furthermore, theres nothing stopping the lowers from spilling blood, once given free reign. war crimes are almost at the same level as they were in vietnam{if not significantly higher} in iraq/afghanistan{ofcourse, being the conservative, u seem to portray, u wud shut your eyes and ears to those truths}. furthermore, america's INTERESTS, consists of stealing illegally, raw materials from other countries{in this case oil from iraq} and distabilising them so that the american{typically, the culture/relegion of the higher ups} way of life as seen by the commanders prevails, not to mention that america can cheeply buy what little/much developing/unstable countries produce in terms of raw materials. its an economic motivation, america doesnt sustain its economy merely on the taxpayers dollars and the LABOUR its people provide, thas a delusion. heck anything can be called interest but there is a clear line between legal and justifyable interests and illegal/immoral/unjustifyable interests{after all rape of underages is an interest to the rapist, shud u then have laws which PROTECTS the interests of the rapists?}. and really, if thas what you signed up for than your mercenaries of higher and nothing more, having no moral/justifyable motivations for doing what your doing, other than the money/possible, the satisfaction plundering brings. in short, any reasonable man wud never sign that paper, or join an organisation that does.
america is right now{the manipulating government/higher ups, and to a lesser extent, brainwashed followers like yourself,unwilling citizens who support it with normally not directly opposing and funding bypaying taxes} the single greatest terrorist/bully/detrimental force/devolver of the world in current times.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lived in america actually. i understand darn well what the american army does to people in afghanistan/iraq.

So because you lived here at one time, that makes you the authority on the U.S. Army??

Originally posted by leonheartmm
been to iraq, live next door to afghanistan, visited afghanistan after the war, met with osama in a gathering near the border actually before the war. been to the training camps they use. can you claim all this?

He said he met Osama?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
actually, spilling blood is one of the targets

Actually, spilling blood is just an inevitable part of it, just like getting grease on your apron is a part of working at a fast food joint. Spilling blood happens in war. You're criticizing the soldiers because of an unavoidable part of war?

Originally posted by Kinneary
All these people are dying and no one cares? There are news reports every day of the people who die. Fatalities are lower in this war than in any other war we've ever fought, and people treat this as if it's worse than the Civil War.

The draft was voted on in 2003. It lost 402-2. It's [b]not coming back. [/B]

the figures of american deaths are far greater than those publically given out. its to keep the morale up and take away blame from the government at a time when the moral is at an all time low and many americans are worried over the death of THEIR, citizens{interestingle, on the world news. te american death of 2 soldiers recieves 17 times more airtime than the death of 120 innocent civilians in the war. sorta tells you what the media and america gives a damn about doesnt it}. on the other hand the number of iraqi/afghani deaths shown are WAYYYYA lower, than the actual number. in reality greater than 2.5% of the entire population of the country is VERIFYABLY{which is extremely hard in a warzone/desytabilised region where generally only 1 in ten deaths can be positively verified among the public} dead and the actual percentage is way higher{reguardless of how the american commandes try to deny this very real statistic}.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
So because you lived here at one time, that makes you the authority on the U.S. Army??

He said he met Osama?

Actually, spilling blood is just an inevitable part of it, just like getting grease on your apron is a part of working at a fast food joint. Spilling blood happens in war. You're criticizing the soldiers because of an unavoidable part of war?

no, it makes me as much of an authority as the other residents claim atleast{the point i was making}. and more so because i research, which is not based on what the general western media just blurts out for impressionable people to believe.

yes ive met osama in 1999, on he afghan border near peshawar{pakistan}. i went with my uncle{a brigadier in the pakistani army} and relations between the two countries were pretty good at the time. it was a gathering kinda thing, he came in a landcruiser, shaked hands with every1{remeber him being bloody tall and cheerful}. my uncle has pictures. but then again it isnt surprising. i met with both former prime ministers of pakistan and even had tea with musharraff at the khattak army camp{before he was president of pakistan, he was just a bum actually}. my dad's kinda well connected with a lot of ministers here since hes a sociable guy and went to the same colleges as most of these people.

the INEVITABLE result of war is NOT what im talkin about, im talkin about the civilian deaths that take place due to the full knowledable CRUELTY and indifference of the soldiers which can be completely avoided. also of the deaths that take place ordered by the higher ups under the GUISE of mistakes{or do you really believe all the civilians killed in palestine/gaza strip by the israeli army were just MITAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!} initially i thought this point of view ridiculous, but more and more, as ive seen evidence for it, its undeniably true.
lets make it clear, im talkin about WAR CRIMES here.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, it makes me as much of an authority as the other residents claim atleast{the point i was making}. and more so because i research, which is not based on what the general western media just blurts out for impressionable people to believe.

You did research...thats the source of your knowledge, huh? I was in the U.S. Army for six years, homes. So I know a thing or two more than you or Kinneary (he's a Squid). So feel free to ask me things.

And everyone knows that media outlets are biased.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes ive met osama in 1999, on he afghan border near peshawar{pakistan}. i went with my uncle{a brigadier in the pakistani army} and relations between the two countries were pretty good at the time. it was a gathering kinda thing, he came in a landcruiser, shaked hands with every1{remeber him being bloody tall and cheerful}. my uncle has pictures. but then again it isnt surprising. i met with both former prime ministers of pakistan and even had tea with musharraff at the khattak army camp{before he was president of pakistan, he was just a bum actually}. my dad's kinda well connected with a lot of ministers here since hes a sociable guy and went to the same colleges as most of these people.

Ijole guey!!

If you have a photo that proves that, you'll be winning bar bets for the rest of your life. No jokes.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the INEVITABLE result of war is NOT what im talkin about, im talkin about the civilian deaths that take place due to the full knowledable CRUELTY and indifference of the soldiers which can be completely avoided. also of the deaths that take place ordered by the higher ups under the GUISE of mistakes{or do you really believe all the civilians killed in palestine/gaza strip by the israeli army were just MITAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!} initially i thought this point of view ridiculous, but more and more, as ive seen evidence for it, its undeniably true.
lets make it clear, im talkin about WAR CRIMES here.

Oh.

leonheartmm, you're an idiot. I honestly don't know any other way to say that.

You might have valid points, especially with Palestine, but you sit there and spew it out in the context of the rest of this garbage, I'm not taking you seriously.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, it makes me as much of an authority as the other residents claim atleast{the point i was making}. and more so because i research, which is not based on what the general western media just blurts out for impressionable people to believe.

😂 Research doesn’t beat experience..and no one interpretation or experience is correct. Basically you know bullshit. Thanks for sharing. Also, you’ve been propagandaed (new verb, I know) into believing that the “western” (what the hell does that men anyway) media is some sort of magical propaganda machine. You just sucked up someone else’s propaganda, which makes you the idiot too and the fool for acting like you’re better.

And you can live with your damn conspiracy theories and unbased ideas about how the military’s sole purpose is to draw uncounted civilian blood, but really, you’re just puking shit all over the place. If there was an accurate way to keep track of civilian deaths in a war, it would be done. There is not...the best we have are estimates, which involve much more work than any of the “research” you have apparently tried to convince yourself you’re doing.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You did research...thats the source of your knowledge, huh? I was in the U.S. Army for six years, homes. So I know a thing or two more than you or Kinneary (he's a Squid). So feel free to ask me things.

And everyone knows that media outlets are biased.

Ijole guey!!

If you have a photo that proves that, you'll be winning bar bets for the rest of your life. No jokes.

Oh.

absolutely no offence meant, but what rank? record of duty{i mean places, positions, hostile, non hostile}, were u in thi iraq/afghanistan war on the battlefied? and history of engagements youve been in. if i dont know those things, then as an INDIVIDUAL, i cant judge how much knowledge/familiarity youhave with the things i mentioned. furthermore, dont u think its rather silly to discredit sum else's research, just on the grounds that ur IN the army. wudnt that among other things, bias you? no to mention youd have as much authority on the subject as an american citizen does on america's true place in the socioeconomic sphere.

i have a photo, but its with my uncle, n hes currently in chechnya. and no bars in this country im afraid. also, its no big deal really, i know lotsa afghani immigrants here who have pictures with him{none with mullah omar though, that guy is kept with strict guard measures}. most of the time, it was when they talked to him or sum other commander to import/export things across the border without duty{as most of the immigrants here are exceedingly poor}, in other words, smuggling, which is really the only major way things get in and out of this country's north.

also, a lot of people know that they are, but unless you immerse yourself into the whole big picture, even most of those people completely fail to realise, to WHAT EXTENT, theyr biased. its alomost a second battle field of information and they fight for it {in terms of effort and funds} as if their life depended on it. and well for the other half{people who claim that its for AMERICA'S INTEREST that it attacked iraq and afghanistan} i must say, theyr clueless and dont know how biased the outletts are.

Originally posted by Scythe
[b]It's getting to me how these soldiers out there serving in Iraq are revered as heroes despite the fact that few have sinned enough to be condemned to either prison or hell. Sure they are brave and they are fighting for the freedom of this country, the U.S., but has anyone stopped and thought of the special treatment some garner?

Don't get me wrong, most soldiers out there serving our trustful men and women who lead good lives, but others see it nothing as an escape from life. The gov. is funding kill tactics to would be gangbangers. They return to the states with a newfound look on killing.

Just a thought among many... [/B]

USA citizens /soldiers are the only ones which cannot be indiced to Internationall Court. So everyone else can be a war criminal, apart from USA soldiers.

Thats just the way New World Order is.

Neither China nor India are signatories to the Rome ICC statute as far as I recall. Multiple other nations have yet to ratify the ICC.

The US has signed and ratified the Geneva Conventions iirc, violation of which would amount to war crimes.

You did research...thats the source of your knowledge, huh? I was in the U.S. Army for six years, homes. So I know a thing or two more than you or Kinneary (he's a Squid). So feel free to ask me things.

Kinneary isn't only a squid, he's a green side corpsman. A marine.

And, honestly, this dude just said he met Osama. Seriously, everything you just said is now bullshit in my mind. I have no respect for you or your opinion. The .1% chance that you met Osama is not enough in my mind to make me even consider the possibility that you met him. Go away.

Originally posted by Kinneary
And the draft will not return. It was defeated by an overwhelming majority in 2005, I believe it was.

you do realise that your conclusion is baseless, and that the bill for the draft was introduced as a form of protest, right? also you know that a draft bill can be reintroduced and re-reintroduced and so on?

look, dispite the squawkings of certain people i think the argument really is simply that u.s. soldiers must be held accountable for war crimes. its not an attack on our troops. would you want to be in a platoon with some wacko who shot up a family and raped their corpses?

Originally posted by Schecter
you do realise that your conclusion is baseless, and that the bill for the draft was introduced as a form of protest, right? also you know that a draft bill can be reintroduced and re-reintroduced and so on?

look, dispite the squawkings of certain people i think the argument really is simply that u.s. soldiers must be held accountable for war crimes. its not an attack on our troops. would you want to be in a platoon with some wacko who shot up a family and raped their corpses, was reported, ignored, and redeployed?

Yeah, it would make for a good story.

my point is that, as i said, blatant war crimes should as punishable for a soldier as for a civilian. im not talking about friendly fire or accidents. im talking about blatant crimes of war.

it just seems that when crimes are exposed the priority lies not on justice, but in covering up/blame the little guy/wash hands

Yeah, I know I was just joking.

On a serious not though, unfortunately people nowadays think less and less outside the boundaries of their own country. They will see the soldier who committed the war crimes, to have been in a position in which they could not avoid, even when they know nothing of what happened.

Originally posted by Schecter
my point is that, as i said, blatant war crimes should as punishable for a soldier as for a civilian. im not talking about friendly fire or accidents. im talking about blatant crimes of war.

it just seems that when crimes are exposed the priority lies not on justice, but in covering up/blame the little guy/wash hands

The problem is that when soldiers get charged with war crimes it's also possible to put the crimes into the hands of their superiors, generals maybe even politicians... Do you honestly think the US would like it if somebody like Powell or god forbid even Bush would show up in the Hague to be charged with war crimes?

The US obviously fears this and wants to prevent it all costs, at the same time it also sends a good message to their troops. If you do something wrong we will still protect you. Might give some troops a better morale.

The worst thing however is that the US has passed a law saying they can just attack a NATO country the very second a US soldier or citizen gets arrested for war crimes. The bastards, I understand where they are coming from though, would have done the same if I was the US. It's up to the rest of the world to just say, Bush either you start admitting war crimes can be committed by US soldiers or we will stop backing your wars... Who knows that might make a difference.