If Superman didn't have the reflexes of his speed he'd plow through everything when running with the Flash instead of being able to dodge it all. He'd probably always over shoot where he needed to be.
As for Batman hurting him with a kryptonite ring...The key word in there is kryptonite. Something Gokou doesn't have. Not to mention Superman was holding back, which was stated by Batman while he was fighting mind control. Plus Batman nearly broke his hand hitting Superman's skin after bypassing the bio-aura Superman has because of the kryptonite ring.
Originally posted by Kento
If Superman didn't have the reflexes of his speed he'd plow through everything when running with the Flash instead of being able to dodge it all. He'd probably always over shoot where he needed to be.As for Batman hurting him with a kryptonite ring...The key word in there is kryptonite. Something Gokou doesn't have. Not to mention Superman was holding back, which was stated by Batman while he was fighting mind control. Plus Batman nearly broke his hand hitting Superman's skin after bypassing the bio-aura Superman has because of the kryptonite ring.
He does have the reflexes of his speed.
It's not a bio-aura it's a bio-electric field, which can easily be disrupted by enough kinetic force, and his density (Hard Body) won't save him from the sheer speed of a Super Saiyan's punch either.
Kryptonian's power are relative to a yellow sun, a Saiyan's how ever, is not. If Super Saiyan Goku were to teleport to lets say a red sun solar system and make a Genki Dama there, where everything is bombarded by the red son's solar radiation, and teleport back to Superman with his Genki Dama, and use it, it would be lethal to Superman even from a great distance.
Say Goku didn't know Superman's powers, he'd still win because his quickness, agility, dexterity and stamina are greater at Super Saiyan.
And in the movies, his DURABILITY, quickness, agility, dexterity and stamina are greater than Supes'.
A Genki Dama wouldn't phase Superman at all no matter where the energy came from. Superman's pure of heart. Not to mention they won't get the red sun energy they'd get life force so it's a failure either way.
Gokou doesn't have the force to break through Superman's bio-field and Gokou's speed isn't fast enough to do anything. Superman can just instantly move his molecules faster than light and Gokou isn't going to be touching him with anything at all, and he can just let Gokou wear himself out that way. Or he could just speedblitz Gokou and win that way. Superman has every option available to win this fight. Gokou has pretty much zero options.
And what do movies have to do with anything? Movie Gokou nor GT Gokou has what it takes to beat Superman, and Gokou while could possibly beat movie Superman with a Kamehameha charged up long enough would actually have to have the time to charge the Kamehameha. Gokou won't beat Movie Superman with speed and his greatly inferior strength.
Originally posted by Kento
A Genki Dama wouldn't phase Superman at all no matter where the energy came from. Superman's pure of heart. Not to mention they won't get the red sun energy they'd get life force so it's a failure either way.Gokou doesn't have the force to break through Superman's bio-field and Gokou's speed isn't fast enough to do anything. Superman can just instantly move his molecules faster than light and Gokou isn't going to be touching him with anything at all, and he can just let Gokou wear himself out that way. Or he could just speedblitz Gokou and win that way. Superman has every option available to win this fight. Gokou has pretty much zero options.
And what do movies have to do with anything? Movie Gokou nor GT Gokou has what it takes to beat Superman, and Gokou while could possibly beat movie Superman with a Kamehameha charged up long enough would actually have to have the time to charge the Kamehameha. Gokou won't beat Movie Superman with speed and his greatly inferior strength.
The life is nourished by red sun radiation, and so is the Genki Dama, no comic book character is pure of heart.
Goku does have to force to break through Superman's bio-shield, since Raditz had the strength to propel a bullet through a human, that might not have all been strength, but speed as well.
GT Goku is complete canon nonsense, SSJ Vegerot would annihilate any Superman.
And Super Saiyan Goku can easily slaughter movie Superman, with speed alone, because he has never used speed blitz, and he is literally a slug compared to Super Saiyan Goku.
Superman is the essence of good. He's got a lot purer heart than Gokou or Gohan is. Spirit Bomb is made to destroy people with evil hearts...and it didn't even kill Freeza. Superman isn't going to hurt it. And it doesn't matter what nourished them. That doesn't mean they have red solar energy inside their spirit. That's like saying if Gokou hit Superman with a Spirit Bomb from Earth he'd charge Supes up.
What does Radditz killing some normal human by flicking a bullet at him prove? Gokou hasn't show the power to hurt Superman, and he's still slower than Superman also. It's not as if Superman is going to sit there letting Gokou pound on him. Gokou could probably knock Superman around...doesn't mean it'll hurt him. As for speed classic Quicksilver could run circles around Juggernaut and can punch faster than him and Juggernaut would be hardpressed to actually hit him unless he stomped the ground or something cause an earthquake but Quicksilver isn't going to be beat Juggy at all or hurting him. Same with Gokou punching movie Supes. Gokou hasn't shown the strength to actually hurt him phsyically. Speed doesn't mean anything when the person has a force field around them or just invulnerable to a certain degree.
As for Vegetto...he's got nothing going for him except beating Super Buu...Buu wasn't exactly known for him strength at all. There is absolutely no proof that Vegetto stands any chance whatsoever. Stands a better chance than Gokou...but that's not saying much.
Originally posted by Kento
Superman is the essence of good. He's got a lot purer heart than Gokou or Gohan is. Spirit Bomb is made to destroy people with evil hearts...and it didn't even kill Freeza. Superman isn't going to hurt it. And it doesn't matter what nourished them. That doesn't mean they have red solar energy inside their spirit. That's like saying if Gokou hit Superman with a Spirit Bomb from Earth he'd charge Supes up.What does Radditz killing some normal human by flicking a bullet at him prove? Gokou hasn't show the power to hurt Superman, and he's still slower than Superman also. It's not as if Superman is going to sit there letting Gokou pound on him. Gokou could probably knock Superman around...doesn't mean it'll hurt him. As for speed classic Quicksilver could run circles around Juggernaut and can punch faster than him and Juggernaut would be hardpressed to actually hit him unless he stomped the ground or something cause an earthquake but Quicksilver isn't going to be beat Juggy at all or hurting him. Same with Gokou punching movie Supes. Gokou hasn't shown the strength to actually hurt him phsyically. Speed doesn't mean anything when the person has a force field around them or just invulnerable to a certain degree.
As for Vegetto...he's got nothing going for him except beating Super Buu...Buu wasn't exactly known for him strength at all. There is absolutely no proof that Vegetto stands any chance whatsoever. Stands a better chance than Gokou...but that's not saying much.
If your saying he stands a better chance than Goku, thats saying he could be any Superman, so that is saying much.
Your right about the Genki Dama, it might not harm Superman anymore than a regular one in our solar system would, but Superman does not have a pure heart, only people in the DBZ universe have pure hearts because of their spirits, which Superman doesn't have, at all.
If Raditz can generate enough speed and strength to kill a human by flicking a bullet, than Super Saiyan Goku has enough force to kill a human with as much density as Superman by flicking a god proof bullet, thats according to the science of Superman, I'll have one of my friends do the math if you tell me exactly how dense his sub atomic particles are, but I'm no scientist, if you want proof you have to provide proof. But his shield would absorb of the shock, but Goku could hurt Superman, a weakened Superman was hurt by high voltage in the Batman fight.
Gokou doesn't stand a chance.
Now you're just not making sense at all. Superman isn't pure of heart because he doesn't have a spirit? What does being pure of heart have to do with a spirit? And Superman can see people's souls inside them....so yea he does have one if his clone which is half him half Lex Luthor has one. Not that it would matter if he had a spirit or not...being pure of heart doesn't have anything to do with a spirit. It has to do with how you are.
Let's see. There is still Superman's bio-aura that Gokou isn't getting passed. There's still the whole speed issue. There's also they whole key word of Superman being weakened when being hurt by high voltage. Not to mention it's against Batman...The guy has files on how to take down every hero in the DC universe along with the brains and resources to back it up. Batman used the whole city as a leverage so Superman would use his heat vision. He also comments on how easily Superman could have killed him and that he's not really doing anything and can't really do anything but stall a holding back Supes until Selina throws Lois off a building. Batman has taken down people he shouldn't even be against to start with.
Originally posted by Kento
Gokou doesn't stand a chance.Now you're just not making sense at all. Superman isn't pure of heart because he doesn't have a spirit? What does being pure of heart have to do with a spirit? And Superman can see people's souls inside them....so yea he does have one if his clone which is half him half Lex Luthor has one. Not that it would matter if he had a spirit or not...being pure of heart doesn't have anything to do with a spirit. It has to do with how you are.
Let's see. There is still Superman's bio-aura that Gokou isn't getting passed. There's still the whole speed issue. There's also they whole key word of Superman being weakened when being hurt by high voltage. Not to mention it's against Batman...The guy has files on how to take down every hero in the DC universe along with the brains and resources to back it up. Batman used the whole city as a leverage so Superman would use his heat vision. He also comments on how easily Superman could have killed him and that he's not really doing anything and can't really do anything but stall a holding back Supes until Selina throws Lois off a building. Batman has taken down people he shouldn't even be against to start with.
It doesn't matter, if Superman,however weakened he was, could be hurt by high voltage than Goku can hurt him. Provide proof that Superman is quicker than Goku in combat, please.
Remember that Goku moved faster than instantly, and that he became an after image. Now if you mean Superman shakes his molecules and becomes a ghost, then nothing physical could touch him because it'd go through him, but Superman can't do that forever, and even with his molecules moving he can't lay a hand on Goku because Goku's too fast..
It does matter how weakened he is. Not to mention Kryptonite was involved and Batman along with a few city blocks worth of power. Gokou wouldn't be fighting a weakened, holding back Superman anyway.
I'm not on my computer because it's in use and instead I'm on my Nintendo and I can't copy and paste links but there have been plenty of examples. Superman fighting around the world, Superman fighting with Wonder Woman to the sun and back in a couple of minutes, Superman fighting Darkseid to the sun almost instantly, speedblitzing Imperiex.
Gokou moved fast enough to leave after images that tricked people in a small area of the ring. Superman has flown from his house to france to get something and back without it ever seeming like he moved. He threw his voice to cause Lois to turn around when he was standing beside Batman and before she could turn around he was already behind her, dressed as Clark and had taken Batman out of his suit and put into clothes. And yes Superman can move his molecules fast enough so stuff passes straight through him. Gokou wouldn't be able to touch him at all and he can do that as long as he wants. It's not like Superman would get tired from doing so at least not as quickly as Gokou would. Also as soon as Gokou passes through him he's going to assume it's like his little trick from a kid and start searching for him. He wouldn't realize until he's out cold from a punch it wasn't the same type of trick and that Superman never moved from that spot.
Originally posted by Kento
It does matter how weakened he is. Not to mention Kryptonite was involved and Batman along with a few city blocks worth of power. Gokou wouldn't be fighting a weakened, holding back Superman anyway.I'm not on my computer because it's in use and instead I'm on my Nintendo and I can't copy and paste links but there have been plenty of examples. Superman fighting around the world, Superman fighting with Wonder Woman to the sun and back in a couple of minutes, Superman fighting Darkseid to the sun almost instantly, speedblitzing Imperiex.
Gokou moved fast enough to leave after images that tricked people in a small area of the ring. Superman has flown from his house to france to get something and back without it ever seeming like he moved. He threw his voice to cause Lois to turn around when he was standing beside Batman and before she could turn around he was already behind her, dressed as Clark and had taken Batman out of his suit and put into clothes. And yes Superman can move his molecules fast enough so stuff passes straight through him. Gokou wouldn't be able to touch him at all and he can do that as long as he wants. It's not like Superman would get tired from doing so at least not as quickly as Gokou would. Also as soon as Gokou passes through him he's going to assume it's like his little trick from a kid and start searching for him. He wouldn't realize until he's out cold from a punch it wasn't the same type of trick and that Superman never moved from that spot.
Why is everyone dismissing the feat where Goku escaped the force field in the instant it exploded?????
YOU asking for proof? now thats a bit ironic. how about you provide some proof that goku is faster than superman? wait, what am i saying, thats clearly not going to happen. you're either going to start talking about movie versions, talk about goku leaving an afterimage (which is nothing compared to supes going faster than light), or just ignore the things that prove you wrong.
if supes's reflexes weren't just as fast as he is, then he'd plow right through the earth when returning deep space, overshoot his destination every time, plow through stars, planets, blackholes, etc. like kento said, he can keep up with flash and not destroy everything around him by running into it, so he's certainly faster than GOKU. who normal humans have seen fighting. i certainly hope you're not going to try and say goku's speed is on par with flash are you?
haha, so YOU'RE complaining about people dismissing feats? a few pages back someone proved that moving fast enough to escape the explosion is still nowhere near lightspeed.
Originally posted by emporerpants
YOU asking for proof? now thats a bit ironic. how about you provide some proof that goku is faster than superman? wait, what am i saying, thats clearly not going to happen. you're either going to start talking about movie versions, talk about goku leaving an afterimage (which is nothing compared to supes going faster than light), or just ignore the things that prove you wrong.if supes's reflexes weren't just as fast as he is, then he'd plow right through the earth when returning deep space, overshoot his destination every time, plow through stars, planets, blackholes, etc. like kento said, he can keep up with flash and not destroy everything around him by running into it, so he's certainly faster than GOKU. who normal humans have seen fighting. i certainly hope you're not going to try and say goku's speed is on par with flash are you?
Again your ignoring the force field incident. Again Superman's feats are that of acceleration, a reflex is deferent from agility, dexterity and stamina, which Goku trumps Superman in, I didn't know what you meant by reflexes at first, I apologize, but Goku's start to finish speed bursts are quicker than Superman's, the Superman speed feats that match the force field incident are when he was traveling through open space, and didn't have to maneuver. And even if he did, Goku was 75 times faster than he was when he moved faster than instantly, (thats my super saiyan multiplier, you can't prove it wrong because his power level was never stated)
Goku's quicker, and he can harm Superman.
i don't have to prove the 75 times thing wrong. the burden of proof is on you to prove that it IS a 75 time multiplier. otherwise, i can just say that supermans heat vision is specifically deadly to saiyans because you can't prove THAT wrong either. its not a hard concept. supe's feats are NOT just acceleration. as stated by kento, supermans has flown from his place to france with it looking like he's never moved. that seems pretty damn instant to ME.
seriously, its hard to take you serious when you keep insisting that an ssj transformation is an increase of 75 times. there is no proof of this. NONE. its total SPECULATION. its just a number that YOU MADE UP. sorry, but we can't use made up numbers in debates. i find it rather silly that you claim to be a better debator than me when you rely on A NUMBER THAT YOU MADE UP AND HAVE NO PROOF OF as an argument for your case. hey! i can do that too! superman's farts are toxic to saiyans! prove me wrong! 🙂
Originally posted by Kento
.....wasn't ssj 50 times more powerful according to Daizenshu? I think Vvendetta put up the thing showing it.
You can't believe any non-canon source, any number for the Super Saiyan multiplier is made up.
And Mr. pants, I didn't say the number was one hundred percent accurate, just that it was close enough.
Why is anyone responding to that troll?
I haven't heard your apology yet, why is everyone sucking up to this either immature or inhuman flamer???
"What are you talking about moves faster than instantly?"
He couldn't escape the force field while it was solid matter, and it would have injured him if it was energy, so he had to of moved at beyond light speed, in order to escape the force field the instant it exploded, and the explosion was instant.
Creshosk, you don't know what a narcissist is, you won't except apologizing to me, and your a bad debater, so save yourself a lot of grief and quit bashing me.
Originally posted by emporerpants
YOU asking for proof? now thats a bit ironic. how about you provide some proof that goku is faster than superman? wait, what am i saying, thats clearly not going to happen. you're either going to start talking about movie versions, talk about goku leaving an afterimage (which is nothing compared to supes going faster than light), or just ignore the things that prove you wrong.if supes's reflexes weren't just as fast as he is, then he'd plow right through the earth when returning deep space, overshoot his destination every time, plow through stars, planets, blackholes, etc. like kento said, he can keep up with flash and not destroy everything around him by running into it, so he's certainly faster than GOKU. who normal humans have seen fighting. i certainly hope you're not going to try and say goku's speed is on par with flash are you?
haha, so YOU'RE complaining about people dismissing feats? a few pages back someone proved that moving fast enough to escape the explosion is still nowhere near lightspeed.
supermans max acceleration is above light speed, when has he ever faught (actually faught, punches/kicks/bites) at light speed cause I really want to see those