Lol GOKU need a Ki to teleport. He needs to sence it or he cant teleport. Superman can go around the planet 50 times whiel Goku teleports and then has to concentrate again. What happens then? BEAT DOWN
GOKU CAN'T BREATH in space. He has any oxygen in his lunges then it will be taken away from him, and he will freeze since he was frozen in a place where is -75 to 200 C while in space its -275C.
Then you make these stupid arguement when you got nothing to proof what you saying except estimation.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Lol GOKU need a Ki to teleport. He needs to sence it or he cant teleport. Superman can go around the planet 50 times whiel Goku teleports and then has to concentrate again. What happens then? BEAT DOWNGOKU CAN'T BREATH in space. He has any oxygen in his lunges then it will be taken away from him, and he will freeze since he was frozen in a place where is -75 to 200 C while in space its -275C.
Then you make these stupid arguement when you got nothing to proof what you saying except estimation. [/B]
Goku doesn't need Chi to teleport, and he doesn't have to sense out where to teleport if it's anywhere on Earth, and I didn't say Goku could breathe in space, but he could in the atmosphere, because the atmosphere is not a vacuum.
Vegeta could notice changes around 1,000 times faster than a human, hang on, I'll prove it in a second.
If an indestructible person was moving at 70 miles per hour and his car (which is indestructible as well) stopped instantly then he would come out of the front wind shield at 140 miles per hour, thats the kind of force Goku had to over come to move around under 100 G's, he threw a piece of rubble at great speeds under 100 G's straight in front of him, and then moved passed it, turned around, and then caught.
Since Goku could stand on two fingers, he threw the rubble at much greater speeds than the speed that a base ball player could throw a base ball, say 500 miles per hour, under 100 G's thats 250,000 miles per hour, he had to of moved at least 3 times as fast as that piece of rubble in order to of caught it in mid air, because he would have to move three times as fast to be able to surpass it from that far away, so thats 500,000 miles per hour.
A bullet moves at 1,500 feet per second, so thats 5,400,000 feet per hour, there are about 5,280 feet in a mile, so thats 5,400,000 divided by 5,280, which is 1,022, so Vegeta can process data 733 times faster than a human because 750,000 divided by 1,022 is 733.
If an indestructible person was moving at 70 miles per hour and his car (which is indestructible as well) stopped instantly then he would come out of the front wind shield at 140 miles per hour, thats the kind of force Goku had to over come to move around under 100 G's, he threw a piece of rubble at great speeds under 100 G's straight in front of him, and then moved passed it, turned around, and then caught.
No they'd come out at 70 miles an hour the speed they were travelling at before the car stopped. It's not the kind of force Goku feels at 100G's as the person been throw out of the car is not accelerating. They'd be slowed down when they smash through the windscreen but that's it.
100 Gs would be the equivalent of been accelerated to 981 km/s. Which car crash can't provide. As 981m/s is is almost mach 3.
Since Goku could stand on two fingers, he threw the rubble at much greater speeds than the speed that a base ball player could throw a base ball, say 500 miles per hour, under 100 G's thats 250,000 miles per hour, he had to of moved at least 3 times as fast as that piece of rubble in order to of caught it in mid air, because he would have to move three times as fast to be able to surpass it from that far away, so thats 500,000 miles per hour.
Firstly 100 times 500 is 50,000. Next gravity is perpendicular to the direction of the balls motion so they do not effect each other. It is just as easy to launch a ball horizontally at 500 miles an hour in a 1G environment as a 100G. It won't go as far but it won't be any harder to do.
A bullet moves at 1,500 feet per second, so thats 5,400,000 feet per hour, there are about 5,280 feet in a mile, so thats 5,400,000 divided by 5,280, which is 1,022, so Vegeta can process data 733 times faster than a human because 750,000 divided by 1,022 is 733.
Okay now where'd you get the number 750,000 from
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
No they'd come out at 70 miles an hour the speed they were travelling at before the car stopped. It's not the kind of force Goku feels at 100G's as the person been throw out of the car is not accelerating. They'd be slowed down when they smash through the windscreen but that's it.100 Gs would be the equivalent of been accelerated to 981 km/s. Which car crash can't provide. As 981m/s is is almost mach 3.
Firstly 100 times 500 is 50,000. Next gravity is perpendicular to the direction of the balls motion so they do not effect each other. It is just as easy to launch a ball horizontally at 500 miles an hour in a 1G environment as a 100G. It won't go as far but it won't be any harder to do.
Okay now where'd you get the number 750,000 from
I apologize, I thought I edited my post, but I guess I didn't, Goku would have to of moved at least 3 times as fast as the ball if the ball was that far away, thus, 750,000.
And under 100 G's, the ball didn't slow down, and it would be 100 times harder to throw the ball because it would be 100 times harder to swing your arm in a throwing motion, and the ball clearly didn't slow down, as you saw speed lines the whole time.
I accidentally did 500 times 500 on the google calculator, common mistake.
As for the car, well, thats dumbness on my part, and I just know Creshosk is going to try and point out every flaw about it, hypocritical comment by hypocritical comment. Even though he KNOWS he could have made a mistake just as stupid.
Originally posted by Combat_Guru
I apologize, I thought I edited my post, but I guess I didn't, Goku would have to of moved at least 3 times as fast as the ball if the ball was that far away, thus, 750,000.And under 100 G's, the ball didn't slow down, and it would be 100 times harder to throw the ball because it would be 100 times harder to swing your arm in a throwing motion, and the ball clearly didn't slow down, as you saw speed lines the whole time.
I accidentally did 500 times 500 on the google calculator, common mistake.
As for the car, well, thats dumbness on my part, and I just know Creshosk is going to try and point out every flaw about it, 😬
Your right of course. I for some reason forgot to account the actual throwing action. However when did Goku throw rubble under 100 Gs? As the only time he was under that pressure was on his voyage to namek.
However what bearing does this have on the argument? You only need class 5 strength to act normally under 100G's. Although Goku shows some degree of super human ability under that so multiplying it by 10 seems logical. Still no where near Superman. Even if you bring it to the 400G vegeta was using to train in the buu saga.
Back to the argument, even if Goku moved a lot slower than I thought because of the 500,000 being 50,000 thing, if you read Manga volume 6, pg 66-67 Vegeta talks about how he learned how to detect things without a scouter. He mentioned getting “the knack of it” which means he was way improved by the time Freeza shot his death beam at Dende.
So I would imagine that he could detect changes up to 1,000 times faster than a human could.
I don't think it would matter, because even though at regular Super Saiyan Goku's combat speed is greater than Superman's, Superman is the "Epitome of kryptonian potential" and because he was exposed to the yellow sun all of his life, that Goku's punches, even at SSJ3, are too weak to harm Superman.
BUT, given prep, Goku could win, by coming up with some weird type of super human strength training, and doing it to such a degree, that he becomes strong enough to pulverize Superman fairly quickly. If he only has a day, he'll go into the chamber of space and time with a couple of god heavy weights and clothes.
So I would imagine that he could detect changes up to 1,000 times faster than a human could.
I can give you examples of Superman moving and reacting at both light speed and above lightspeed. Giving him milions of times the reaction speed of a human being.
Superman can react and fight lightspeeders. Goku doesn't have him beat in combat speed.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
I can give you examples of Superman moving and reacting at both light speed and above lightspeed. Giving him milions of times the reaction speed of a human being.Superman can react and fight lightspeeders. Goku doesn't have him beat in combat speed.
Sure, Superman can react a lot faster than Vegeta, but not Super Saiyan Goku, Goku had been getting the knack of the sixth sense since he was like 15 years old, Vegeta had just started, Goku had so much experience with detecting changes and reacting to them that by the end of the Cell saga, he could since some one with hardly any Chi coming at him from another planet.
And why I was arguing Vegeta's reaction speed was so I could prove how fast freeza's death beam was, so I could prove how fast Goku is,
Vegeta saw Goku moving when he was fighting the Ginyu force, and at that point he was many times faster than Raditz, and when Raditz caught the bullet, the human couldn't see his hand move because he couldn't see the bullet, so Vegeta had the ability to detect changes at what I estimate to be one thousand times quicker than you average Joe.A human can detect changes in (From what I've heard) 14 seconds, and one thousandth of 14 is .00014, Freeza's death beam traveled (For appeasements sake) 100 meters in .00014 seconds.
If you look at the beams, and Goku's after images on page 83 in Vo. 11, Goku ducks under the first beam, and then stands back up, and THEN dodges the second by moving toward the right of it, and the first beam was to the left of the second. And the second beam was 5 inches behind the first. And the beams were 2 feet apart. So Goku ducked and then moved to the right side of the right beam, which means he moved about 4 feet in .00000098 seconds because there are 39 inches in a meter, and this was 5 inches, and 5 goes into 39 seven times, and 7,000 times 14,000 is 98,000,000.
Originally posted by Combat_GuruHypocritical? When did I ever forget or ignore what inertia was?
As for the car, well, thats dumbness on my part, and I just know Creshosk is going to try and point out every flaw about it, hypocritical comment by hypocritical comment. Even though he KNOWS he could have made a mistake just as stupid.
I give this to black hair goku 10/10, my reasons, by the way creshok this is carver9 Im just under my roommates name for right now.
1st reason Im giving goku the win is due to the fact that superman has been owned by:
Titus
Mongul
The general
Darksied (physically)
Cheetah
(I can keep going)
but none of them possess any combat speed. They are nothing but bricks and when superman does fight people that possess some kind of combat speed (that still isnt nothing special to goku) he gets overwhelmed).Superman dont have any combat speed that is even worth mentioning. You all post a scan of him dodging doomsday but you fail to realize that that doomsday was tremendously weakened. Superman even said so himself, he said that his speed and his strength decreased which took everything from that feat. There is no solid proof that superman can combat at light speed.
You also put up a scan of superman and wonderwoman fighting and max lord quote a time. He basically quoted a time on how long it took wonderwoman to get from point a to his base and then behind that statement he said that superman would be here in seconds. Hell, if superman flies the speed of light do you think that it should have taken him seconds to get from where he was to max lords location.
3rd, Superman and goku fight have happened and been writen so many times by different writers and it is always writen as goku being to fast for superman and superman being overwhelmed. Deathstroke even appeared to be to quick for superman to even catch, superman said so himself.
4th, again, show me a fight besides the dream fight of wonderwoman that you keep posting of superman fighting at light speed, hell show me a fight were it says that superman is even moving at the speed of sound. You show me something where he is punching and creating sonic booms, I want you to show me him running circles around his opponent and winking out every where. I want you to show an opponent that isnt weaken or have some kind of disability, punching at superman and there punches is going through him. If I know you well, the only thing that you are going to put up is a)superman fighting doomsday. b) Superman fighting mongul c) Superman fighting wonderwoman. and how long have superman been out, 60+ years and thats all you got to show for a character that has this great combat speed that you all are referring to.
4th) Goku lift a lot more then 40 tons but that is something that you dont accept so Im not even on that subject any more. The sad thing about this is that superman even have bad showing in crossovers against people with minimum combat speed. Hell he fought spiderman and got overwhelmed because spiderman was basically to fast for him. He fought venom and got over whelmed and even stated that venom was fast. I guess wolverine is next huh.
Every fight that superman is in people are able to see from the 1st punch to the last punch, this is regular humans that Im referring to. There have never been an instance where someone actually stated "where did they go, or where have they gone" but you all still find a way to give him this imaginary combat speed. Where are you getting it from.
I have another excuse that you all use, he dont use his combat speed because he dont want to hurt the innocents around him. So basically he purposely got knocked out by kalibak, a villian that will basically kill anyone anyway without someone there to stop him. Or he got thrashed purposly by darkseid when he was on apokalips and darksied tried to put him in the suit to stop imperex. Again, superman has been out 60+ years, back up your combat speed feats. Goku would walk circles around superman.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
I can give you examples of Superman moving and reacting at both light speed and above lightspeed. Giving him milions of times the reaction speed of a human being.Superman can react and fight lightspeeders. Goku doesn't have him beat in combat speed.
Identity crisis: Green Arrow is in the watchtower is speaking to clark kent in Kansas on a computer screen. He offends Clark, who appears in front of him in his Superman in an instant.
It takes 1.28 seconds to reach the moon. He did it in a fraction of that. In that fraction of a second he changed into his costume reached the moon and navigated round the corridors of the huge JLA watch tower to appear in front of GA.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/Flash/Flashv2209p013.jpg
Flash outruns Superman's heat vision while Superman keeps up. Superman's heat vision has feats that put at faster than light, but it is definitely lightspeed. For superman to continue to keep up with flash who is moving faster than light he has to be travelling a least lightspeed itself. Running is not like flight speed. It requires reflexes at that level to react to terrain and to be able to see flash and follow him.
I'm sure on of the others will provide a third.
Titus
A one of JLA classified villain of dubious canon. That overrides all Supermans speed feats
Mongul
Come on now Mongul hasn't be a threat to Superman in a decade.
The general
He never defeated Superman. They stalemated each other as they were unable to harm one another. He did also react to a hyper sonic attack so he's not that slow.
Darksied (physically)
Darkseid has Superspeed. Vast superspeed as does his son orion. Look in their respect threads.
Cheetah
I'd like to see the context of this. I've seen the scan before but I'm not familiar enough to comment
Now lets look at the people Goku has beaten with out help from a friend or family member after getting his ass kicked.
Napaa
Recoombe
Burter
Jeice
Recoombe
That's it. He's never beaten a major villian on his own. The closest is his draw with fat buu. The five he did beat he vastly overpowered. Goku has an appalling combat record.
I don't know why I'm arguing this. You have an image of Superman, that can't be changed by scans or evidence. Saying Superman has no combat speed is as false as claiming he has no super senses. In this last year he's speed blitzed three super speeders approaching his level. Yet he has no combat reflexes?
Originally posted by jmcnastyThere's no solid proof of Goku being able to fight at hypersonic velocities let alone lightspeed, There's no solid proof of Goku lifting anything beyond the 40 tons he had trouble with in base form. Once again you set up a douible standard of "Goku can do it, he doesn't need proof. Superman can't do it, he needs prrof." Face it Carver you're a biased fanboy. And now you're socking. Probably going to get your rtegular account AND your "roommates" accounts banned. Congratulations. You failed to think again.
I give this to black hair goku 10/10, my reasons, by the way creshok this is carver9 Im just under my roommates name for right now.1st reason Im giving goku the win is due to the fact that superman has been owned by:
Titus
Mongul
The general
Darksied (physically)
Cheetah
(I can keep going)
but none of them possess any combat speed. They are nothing but bricks and when superman does fight people that possess some kind of combat speed (that still isnt nothing special to goku) he gets overwhelmed).Superman dont have any combat speed that is even worth mentioning. You all post a scan of him dodging doomsday but you fail to realize that that doomsday was tremendously weakened. Superman even said so himself, he said that his speed and his strength decreased which took everything from that feat. There is no solid proof that superman can combat at light speed.
Originally posted by jmcnastySeconds to get from the sun to max lords location? It takes eight minutes for light to get from the sun. so Yeah, seconds would have been light speed. How about you? got any lightspeed feats for Goku himself? Not Gotenks, not pan but Goku?
You also put up a scan of superman and wonderwoman fighting and max lord quote a time. He basically quoted a time on how long it took wonderwoman to get from point a to his base and then behind that statement he said that superman would be here in seconds. Hell, if superman flies the speed of light do you think that it should have taken him seconds to get from where he was to max lords location.
Originally posted by jmcnasty[ IT has NEVER been written and published. There is NO canon material of it... What the is wrong with you dbz fanboys that makes you make up stupid stuff like this?
3rd, Superman and goku fight have happened and been writen so many times by different writers and it is always writen as goku being to fast for superman and superman being overwhelmed.
Originally posted by jmcnastyScans?
Deathstroke even appeared to be to quick for superman to even catch, superman said so himself.
Originally posted by jmcnastyDo the same with Goku. Cause it never says he does hypocrite.
4th, again, show me a fight besides the dream fight of wonderwoman that you keep posting of superman fighting at light speed, hell show me a fight were it says that superman is even moving at the speed of sound.
Originally posted by jmcnastyArtisitic licence you mean? How does him "winking out" prove that he has any more speed than just being fast? Kenshin "winks out" when he fights, so I Guess Himura Kenshin is also lightspeed?
You show me something where he is punching and creating sonic booms, I want you to show me him running circles around his opponent and winking out every where.
Originally posted by jmcnastyAnd its more than you have for Goku. You have nothing to show he's as fast as you say he is.
I want you to show an opponent that isnt weaken or have some kind of disability, punching at superman and there punches is going through him. If I know you well, the only thing that you are going to put up is a)superman fighting doomsday. b) Superman fighting mongul c) Superman fighting wonderwoman. and how long have superman been out, 60+ years and thats all you got to show for a character that has this great combat speed that you all are referring to.
Originally posted by jmcnastyBecause you haven't proven it. Superman contains a black hole, moves planet sized objects but what does goku have? On panel struggling with 40 tons. Yet without proof we accept that goku can lift more than he's depicted to. But superman fights slower than he's depicted to despite having evidence of it.
4th) Goku lift a lot more then 40 tons but that is something that you dont accept so Im not even on that subject any more.
Originally posted by jmcnastyCrossover's are NOT canon... Hell Superbuu got his ass owned by practically everybody in crossovers. Jigglypuff beat goku in a crossover...
The sad thing about this is that superman even have bad showing in crossovers against people with minimum combat speed.
What's the importance of using canon material you say?
Superbuu is the weakest character in existence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwTTqfcugY0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CMdctO4egY
Jigglypuff beats up a whol lot of people including Freeza twice and even goku:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPd1Zf8-9ag
Jigglypuff beats Cell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPL3SP1DTGE
Using non-canon material is great because then the DBZ cahracters look like wimps!
Originally posted by jmcnastyToo bad none of it is canon.
Hell he fought spiderman and got overwhelmed because spiderman was basically to fast for him. He fought venom and got over whelmed and even stated that venom was fast. I guess wolverine is next huh.
Originally posted by jmcnastyAnd yet people in DBZ can follow their fights as well. So much for that huh?
Every fight that superman is in people are able to see from the 1st punch to the last punch, this is regular humans that Im referring to. There have never been an instance where someone actually stated "where did they go, or where have they gone" but you all still find a way to give him this imaginary combat speed. Where are you getting it from.
Originally posted by jmcnastyHow about you back up yours? UYou've got no eividence to put Goku as being able to fight at hypersonic velocities either.. yet you expect us to take your word for it (even though you use non-canon material) without evidence.. and yet expect the Superman to provide evidence that you clearly ignore?
I have another excuse that you all use, he dont use his combat speed because he dont want to hurt the innocents around him. So basically he purposely got knocked out by kalibak, a villian that will basically kill anyone anyway without someone there to stop him. Or he got thrashed purposly by darkseid when he was on apokalips and darksied tried to put him in the suit to stop imperex. Again, superman has been out 60+ years, back up your combat speed feats. Goku would walk circles around superman.
Never figured you to be a troll Carver... fortunatly this socking of yours will probably get you banned.
Originally posted by jmcnastyHow about you provide one real scxan, none of theose photochopped ones where it says that Goku even fights at hypersonic speeds?
Please show me 3 examples and I want to see it say light speed.
I want to see where it says he is moving at hypersonic or lightspeed. No trash talking villians either but actual statements of the speeds they're moving at.
Scans have been posted earlier on this thread, I'm tired of having to post them over and over again.
Here are three examples:
- Fighting Wonder Woman all around the world, to the sun and back in 1 minute and 54 seconds (light takes 8 minutes to reach earth from the sun).
- Flying from earth to Saturn in 4 minutes in the Lex 2000 special (light takes 19 minutes to make that trip)
- Flying from earth to Rao (which is in the Andromeda galaxy, around 250 million light-years away) in only a matter of hours in Infinite Crisis.
Now show me just one example of Goku moving at even 1% of lightspeed.
- Instant transmission is teleportation, not speed
- Filler scenes from the anime don't count
- Simply making up ad-hoc assertions and non-sequiter claims about unquantifiable feats doesn't count
Oh, and Combat_Guru: All of your arguments seem to rely on simply making up numbers out of thin air with no source. Show the math you did to get these numbers.
And if you give Goku prep, you have to give Superman prep as well. Simply speculating on what he could achieve with prep time lets us do the same thing.
Chreshosk, why do you insist that Goku can't fight/react/move at light speed?
Do you remember this?
Vegeta was experienced in detecting movement with out a scouter by the time Freeza fired his death beam, 1,000 times is being generous.
A human can detect changes in (From what I've heard) 14 seconds, and one thousandth of 14 is .00014, Freeza's death beam traveled (For appeasements sake) 100 meters in .00014 seconds.If you look at the beams, and Goku's after images on page 83 in Vo. 11, Goku ducks under the first beam, and then stands back up, and THEN dodges the second by moving toward the right of it, and the first beam was to the left of the second. And the second beam was 5 inches behind the first. And the beams were 2 feet apart. So Goku ducked and then moved to the right side of the right beam, which means he moved about 4 feet in .00000098 seconds because there are 39 inches in a meter, and this was 5 inches, and 5 goes into 39 seven times, and 7,000 times 14,000 is 98,000,000.
So Goku moved at around 392,000,000 meters per second because 4 times 98 million is 392 million, thatS BARELY over light speed.
BTW, I typed .00014 when it should have been .00041, so I'm going to recalculate once again.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Identity crisis: Green Arrow is in the watchtower is speaking to clark kent in Kansas on a computer screen. He offends Clark, who appears in front of him in his Superman in an instant.It takes 1.28 seconds to reach the moon. He did it in a fraction of that. In that fraction of a second he changed into his costume reached the moon and navigated round the corridors of the huge JLA watch tower to appear in front of GA.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/Flash/Flashv2209p013.jpg
Flash outruns Superman's heat vision while Superman keeps up. Superman's heat vision has feats that put at faster than light, but it is definitely lightspeed. For superman to continue to keep up with flash who is moving faster than light he has to be travelling a least lightspeed itself. Running is not like flight speed. It requires reflexes at that level to react to terrain and to be able to see flash and follow him.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Scans have been posted earlier on this thread, I'm tired of having to post them over and over again.Here are three examples:
- Fighting Wonder Woman all around the world, to the sun and back in 1 minute and 54 seconds (light takes 8 minutes to reach earth from the sun).
- Flying from earth to Saturn in 4 minutes in the Lex 2000 special (light takes 19 minutes to make that trip)
- Flying from earth to Rao (which is in the Andromeda galaxy, around 250 million light-years away) in only a matter of hours in Infinite Crisis.
Now show me just one example of Goku moving at even 1% of lightspeed.
- Instant transmission is teleportation, not speed
- Filler scenes from the anime don't count
- Simply making up ad-hoc assertions and non-sequiter claims about unquantifiable feats doesn't count
Oh, and Combat_Guru: All of your arguments seem to rely on simply making up numbers out of thin air with no source. Show the math you did to get these numbers.
And if you give Goku prep, you have to give Superman prep as well. Simply speculating on what he could achieve with prep time lets us do the same thing.
Just incase some one missed it. Now lets see on panel proof of Goku moving at even a fraction of light speed under his own power, not I.T.
