Superman vs Goku (Official Thread)

Originally posted by Pete Beast
Goku wasn't made by magic. turning people into candy came with this option. As for Buu's Kamehameha wave. You guys are saying that the first blast Kid Buu threw to the Earth, which is STATED would have blown the planet, is MORE powerful than a kamehameha wave that needs charging?

Actually it isn't unproven. When has a Kamehameha wave EXPLODED? it hasn't. It does this when the beam comes in direct contact with the planet. You'resaying that Goku is lying and Cell is lying when each said the other's kamehameha wave would destroy the planet.

Suggesting isn't proving. Its very simple to deny that Goku is millions of times stronger than Goku, but harder to prove. Roshi vaporizing a moon in an instant shows that Goku can do this aswell, and with ease and that he could easily do this to a planet, seeing as Kid Buu did this to the Earth and Kid Buu is around the same as Goku during this saga. NOTE: don't forget that Goku TRAINS for ten years after the Buu saga. After these ten years he fights Uub and takes off to train even MORE.

No he dind't. The only time in Goku vs Cell's fight that Goku did something with any attack that cause the surface any damage was when Cell destroyed the ring. Nothing else. Also youre using a weaker verion of Goku. [/B]

Also how hard is it to believe that the Kamehameha Cell or Gokou were about to fire weren't just going to drill through and hit the core? The only other time a planet was destroying it was by the core. Kid Buu was the only one to destroy a planet without hitting the core.

Next Kid Buu was a whole lot more powerful than Gokou just not as durable. And just because he trained ten more years doesn't mean he ever got to Kid Buu's level since we don't know how much stronger he became. I think he could but that would still only be planet destroying level blasts which he still could never hit Superman with or get off before he is koed or dead.

Cell was blasting at Gokou with normal ki blasts and Gokou was dodging them.
http://www.ultimatedbz.com/cgi-bin/imagefolio2/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Manga/Dragonball%20Z/Book%2018/Chapter%2004&image=db34pg60.gif&img=&tt=
http://www.ultimatedbz.com/cgi-bin/imagefolio2/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Manga/Dragonball%20Z/Book%2018/Chapter%2004&image=db34pg61.gif&img=&tt=
http://www.ultimatedbz.com/cgi-bin/imagefolio2/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Manga/Dragonball%20Z/Book%2018/Chapter%2004&image=db34pg62.gif&img=&tt=

Also in Buu Saga they are hurt by less than planet destroying blasts. It doesn't take a planet destroying blast to hurt someone.

Originally posted by Pete Beast
Arrogance is NOT equivelent to lying.

Cell believed he was unbeatable, and he pretty much was because there was NO ONE who could surpass his power. Not even the good guys. Hell, not even Gohan knew he would be the one. So how is this lying? He didn't know of anyone in te universe capable of defeating him, and it was true. There really wasn't anyone.

Again, arrogance is NOT lying.

Wrong

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/lie_2?view=uk

noun 1 an intentionally false statement. 2 a situation involving deception or founded on a mistaken impression.

http://www.bartleby.com/61/52/L0155200.html
lie2, equivocate, fib, palter, prevaricate These verbs mean to evade or depart from the truth:
a witness who lied under oath; didn't equivocate about her real purpose; fibbed to escape being scolded; paltering with an irate customer; didn't prevaricate but answered honestly.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lie&r=66
http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/lie
lie1 /laɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, lied, ly·ing.
–noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.
–verb (used without object) 5. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
6. to express what is false; convey a false impression.
–verb (used with object) 7. to bring about or affect by lying (often used reflexively): to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed to lying his way out of difficulties.
—Idioms8. give the lie to, a. to accuse of lying; contradict.
b. to prove or imply the falsity of; belie: His poor work gives the lie to his claims of experience.

9. lie in one's throat or teeth, to lie grossly or maliciously: If she told you exactly the opposite of what she told me, she must be lying in her teeth. Also, lie through one's teeth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: bef. 900; (n.) ME; OE lyge; c. G Lüge, ON lygi; akin to Goth liugn; (v.) ME lien, OE léogan (intransit.); c. G lügen, ON ljûga, Goth liugan]

—Synonyms 1. prevarication, falsification. See falsehood. 5. prevaricate, fib.
—Antonyms 1. truth.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=lie

lie (v.1)
"speak falsely," O.E. legan, ligan, earlier leogan (class II strong verb; past tense leag, pp. logen), from P.Gmc. *leugan (cf. O.N. ljuga, Dan. lyve, O.Fris. liaga, Ger. lügen, Goth. liugan), from PIE base *leugh- "to tell a lie."
lie (n.)
"an untruth," O.E. lyge, from P.Gmc. *lugin (cf. O.N. lygi, Dan. l¸gn, O.Fris. leyne, Ger. Lüge, Goth. liugn). To give the lie to "accuse directly of lying" is attested from 1593. Lie-detector first recorded 1909.

He told false statments frequently. In otherwords he lied all the time.

Thus, with this and the fact that the output of enough energy to supposedly destroy two solar systems (cell and Gohan) and there was minor damage to the Earth... Logic dictates he was not telling the truth.

Also note:

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=trash+talk
Main Entry: trash talk
Function: noun
Date: 1981
: disparaging, taunting, or boastful comments especially between opponents trying to intimidate each other
— trash–talk \ˈtrash-ˌtȯk\ verb
— trash–talk·er \-ˌtȯ-kər\ noun

The far more logical concluison is that he was trashtalking with the intent to intimidate.

And don't give me any of that ki control garbage. Cell was supposedly trying to destroy the Earth when he blew himself up and Goku had to IT him out of there (and Goku was killed by this planet busting attack). So it is illogical to assume that he was trying not to destroy the earth at that point in time.

All the evidence and logic is stacked against the assumption that he had.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well with the exception of that statment, he has never lied. Besides, once he absorbed 18 he did become the most powerful being on earth so in a way he was telling the truth. Oh and in fairness, no one would have guessed Gohan would have transformed into SSJ2 so he didnt really lie....he just wasnt aware of Gohans power.

Yeah, he did become the most powerful being on the planet. It wasnt untill Gohan became a SSJ2 that the rankings shifted. Oh and exaclty how was he lying, he didnt know about Gohans SSJ2 transformation. He WAS the most powerful being on the planet up untill that point. If he said he could destroy a solar system then I think we can take his word for it, aferall he did tell the truth for the most part. Not to mention that many of his false statments came out of his ignorance of his opponents power....no one up to that point knew a SSJ2 existed.

I dont know why everybody discredits him, hes a character in the story so i think its safe to assume hes telling the truth.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Yeah, he did become the most powerful being on the planet. It wasnt untill Gohan became a SSJ2 that the rankings shifted.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Oh and exaclty how was he lying, he didnt know about Gohans SSJ2 transformation.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
He WAS the most powerful being on the planet up untill that point.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
If he said he could destroy a solar system then I think we can take his word for it,

This is your evidence?

"I'm gullible, therefore he could destroy the solar system"?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
aferall he did tell the truth for the most part.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Not to mention that many of his false statments came out of his ignorance of his opponents power....no one up to that point knew a SSJ2 existed.[/b[]/quote] Do ytou see in the definitions I highlighted where it says they HAVE to know?

Cause I'm pretty sure the dictionary definitions of the word that I highlighted do not indicate they HAVE to know the truth.

[QUOTE=9741541]Originally posted by The Great Galen
[B] I dont know why everybody discredits him, hes a character in the story so i think its safe to assume hes telling the truth.

We have no reason to trust his word, and everything to mistrust him. Especially when the release of not only his energy, but that of gohan's only made a large crater.

Originally posted by Pete Beast
[B]I dont get what you mean, when a blast hits another fighter in DBZ (Goku vs Vegeta, for example) the explosion which is easily self procalimed capable of destroying a planet, doesnt EXPLODE to this magitude.

Then how would it be capable of destroying a planet?

An example: Goku's Kamehameha wave against Cell (IT + blast) Cell said he wasn't going to fire because it would destroy the Earth, yet he did, and everyone around knew this blast would destroy the Earth. Yet, when he fired at Cell, people around were only amazed at the lights and blast power, nothing more. The Earth itself didn't suffer any damage, yet this blast was capable of destroying the Earth.[quote]

Because it was fired upwards, and went into space.

[quote]This same thing repeats on several ocations, and in this fight.

One time, when Goku stated that Cell's first Kamehameha would destory the Earth comepltely. He had to jump to avoid this. He later asked Cell why he would do that, and Cell answered that jumping would be Goku's only choice no matter what. Else the planet would have been destoryed, yet nothing happened to the surroundings.

Because it went into space and didn't hit the planet.

Another, the first Kamehameha Gohan fired at Cell, which prettymuch overall destroyed him (though not completely) I believe its safe to say that these two blasts where more powerful than any Goku or Cell fired at their fight, yet they even colided and did nothing to the surroundings.

Because it was fired upwards into space....

I would post all these scans but I can't, since I'm not allowed here :/

The logic of a blast getting fired <nx not causing MAJRO havoc and damaged "proving" its power, can't really be applied, as you can see in these cases. And even so, the final Kamehameha wave between Gohan and Cell, shook the entire Earth.

Which is a far cry from destroying it.

Originally posted by Pete Beast
The blasts didn't come in direct contacts with the Earth, just like the ones you claim didn't do anything to the Earth's surface. If they would, they would have destroyed Earth, but they didn't.

This is why that theory can't be used, because you can't say a blast isn't capable of destroying the planet because it didn't cause any damage to it. Ofcourse it dind't cause any damage, it never came in direct contact with it. Unless you guys suggest everyone of the Z fighters, including the ones firing the waves, are all lying or miscalculating? I really doubt it.

Master Roshi could vaporize a moon, and it was INSTANT, to say Goku can't do this with the Earth and resist such attacks is kind of foolish in my opinion, specially with what I said before, where Kid Buu fired a FAST blast to the Earth and it shatered it in an instant, yet he Fired a Kamehameha (which required more charging, and ofcrouse a Kamehameha wave is far stronger than a simple, fast blast)at Goku and Goku diodn't even flinch. Goku can EASILY withstand blasts that can vaporize the planet.

Except the attack fired by Buu at Goku exploded at ground level and didn't fly off into space, yet it hardly did any damage at all.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Nah, being a saiyan he gets kinda stupid about fighting. Helping to heal the enemy or allowing himself to become weakened by them. As opposed to figuring out the person's DNA doesn't seem like he's smarter.

So planets without life on them are fake planets?

Right... that's why goku loses, he's gotta spin stupid things like that in order to win. Logic and reason aren't on his side so he needs this foolishness...

Not to mention that no one was alive on Earth when Buu destroyed it, and the same goes for Namek when it exploded. There was no life on the moon either (unless you count Boss Rabbit and his flunkies).

So by his logic, no one in DBZ can destroy a planet.

Not much into carcasm but, are you suggesting that Master ROshi can do things Goku can't? Or rather, that the blast Kid Buu fired at the Earth can't be done by Goku?

Roshi can do things that Goku can't (such as his electricity technique, his hypnosis technique, etc.)

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Yeah, he did become the most powerful being on the planet. It wasnt untill Gohan became a SSJ2 that the rankings shifted. Oh and exaclty how was he lying, he didnt know about Gohans SSJ2 transformation. He WAS the most powerful being on the planet up untill that point. If he said he could destroy a solar system then I think we can take his word for it, aferall he did tell the truth for the most part. Not to mention that many of his false statments came out of his ignorance of his opponents power....no one up to that point knew a SSJ2 existed.

I dont know why everybody discredits him, hes a character in the story so i think its safe to assume hes telling the truth.

He did know about it. In fact, Gohan even warned him about it. But, like the arrogant villain he is, he deliberately started attacking Gohan and his friends just so he could see it for himself.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
He did know about it. In fact, Gohan even warned him about it. But, like the arrogant villain he is, he deliberately started attacking Gohan and his friends just so he could see it for himself.

false he new gohan had hidden power he however did not know that gohan could go level 2 or was more powerful then him self

Originally posted by Battlehammer
false he new gohan had hidden power he however did not know that gohan could go level 2 or was more powerful then him self

What fight we're you watching, Cell was vastly beyond gohan in SSJ form. In fact, Gohan even admits that he can't defeat him hin his current state. Oh and I personally believe that cell can destroy a solar system, afterall when he told Vegeta that he would beat him once he absorbed 18 he end up raping Vegeta pretty badly......so yeah obviously he doesnt lie as often as some people seem to think he does.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
false he new gohan had hidden power he however did not know that gohan could go level 2 or was more powerful then him self

Umm...isn't that what he just said?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Oh and I personally believe that cell can destroy a solar system,

The energyies released by him and gohan did little more than leave a crater rather than destroy the two solar systems they should have had Cell been telling the truth.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
afterall when he told Vegeta that he would beat him once he absorbed 18 he end up raping Vegeta pretty badly......so yeah obviously he doesnt lie as often as some people seem to think he does.

"I'm gullible"

Doesn't really cut it.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
What fight we're you watching, Cell was vastly beyond gohan in SSJ form. In fact, Gohan even admits that he can't defeat him hin his current state. Oh and I personally believe that cell can destroy a solar system, afterall when he told Vegeta that he would beat him once he absorbed 18 he end up raping Vegeta pretty badly......so yeah obviously he doesnt lie as often as some people seem to think he does.

Then how would it be capable of destroying a planet?

My point exactly. Goku is strong enough to resist a planet busting attack. If not, his Ki does the job for him (remember Nappa firing a blast and he decides to just block it using Ki?).

Because it went into space and didn't hit the planet.

The Kamehameha wave between Gohan and Cell didn't hit the planet either, and you guys claim it wasnt Solar System destroying because then the people around wouldnt be able to stand so close (all of this holds to no backup, since a wave has NEVER caused any phisical damage EXCEPT what it hits, so i don't know where tyou guys came up with any of this).

Because it was fired upwards into space....

Space? Gohan is in the ground and Cell a few meters upwards. The contact between the two blasts didn't do anything to anyone around.

Which is a far cry from destroying it.

It never touched the Earth directly, and going by your logic it means that no damage should be caused.

Except the attack fired by Buu at Goku exploded at ground level and didn't fly off into space, yet it hardly did any damage at all.

This took place at the planet of the Kai's, said planet to be more resistant than Earth, so can't really use this as an argument since NOBODY knows how resistant this planet is.

Roshi can do things that Goku can't (such as his electricity technique, his hypnosis technique, etc.)

A kamehameha, is a kamehameha, no matter who fires it. The only thing that chages is the power of it, and Goku is millions of times stronger than Roshi. Roshi dind't use any weird techniques or use electricity. he used a Kamehameha and thats that. No furter discussion is needed.

Here are the scans of the first Kamehameha Gohan fired:

Here: Not too far from eachother, and most importantly, look ath the distance the TWO waves make impact... Metere meters away from the surface, no phisical damage is caused to anything around.

P.S. Mike, could you do me a favor and give me a link(s) to a site that has the Buu Saga scans? The one I have only has up to the Cell Games.

Originally posted by Pete Beast
My point exactly. Goku is strong enough to resist a planet busting attack.

Originally posted by Pete Beast
If not, his Ki does the job for him (remember Nappa firing a blast and he decides to just block it using Ki?).

The Kamehameha wave between Gohan and Cell didn't hit the planet either, and you guys claim it wasnt Solar System destroying because then the people around wouldnt be able to stand so close (all of this holds to no backup, since a wave has NEVER caused any phisical damage EXCEPT what it hits, so i don't know where tyou guys came up with any of this).

You should try it some time it won't kill you.

Energy and Matter can not be destroyed. So all that energy has to go somewhere. the out put of two, TWO supposedly solar system destroying blasts and only minimal damage to the Earth.

Do you have any idea how big the solar system is? you cant even see the earth and barely the sun from photos of the solar system.

Originally posted by Pete Beast
Space? Gohan is in the ground and Cell a few meters upwards. The contact between the two blasts didn't do anything to anyone around.

Originally posted by Pete Beast

It never touched the Earth directly, and going by your logic it means that no damage should be caused.

Originally posted by Pete Beast
A kamehameha, is a kamehameha, no matter who fires it. The only thing that chages is the power of it, and Goku is millions of times stronger than Roshi. Roshi dind't use any weird techniques or use electricity. he used a Kamehameha and thats that. No furter discussion is needed.

Originally posted by Pete Beast
Here are the scans of the first Kamehameha Gohan fired:

http://www.blackgoku.com/pictures/Manga/Dragonball%20Z/Book%2019/Chapter%2002/350208.gif

http://www.blackgoku.com/pictures/Manga/Dragonball%20Z/Book%2019/Chapter%2002/350209.gif
http://www.blackgoku.com/pictures/Manga/Dragonball%20Z/Book%2019/Chapter%2002/350210.gif
Here: Not too far from eachother, and most importantly, look ath the distance the TWO waves make impact... Metere meters away from the surface, no phisical damage is caused to anything around.

Meters doesn't cut it, not even a little bit.

Originally posted by Pete Beast
http://www.blackgoku.com/pictures/Manga/Dragonball%20Z/Book%2019/Chapter%2002/350211.gif

http://www.blackgoku.com/pictures/Manga/Dragonball%20Z/Book%2019/Chapter%2002/350212.gif

http://www.blackgoku.com/pictures/Manga/Dragonball%20Z/Book%2019/Chapter%2002/350213.gif

P.S. Mike, could you do me a favor and give me a link(s) to a site that has the Buu Saga scans? The one I have only has up to the Cell Games.

I would like to say that Cell never said he could bust the solar system.

The size of the solar system.

http://www.yikers.com/video_our_solar_system_in_size_comparison.html

No dbz character is destroying anything remotely close to this size.