are you sure superman doesn't need to breathe? i use to think that as well, but in one of the justice leage episodes where they get trapped in Atlantis, the atlantians attempt to kill superman, hawk girl, martian dude, and green lantern by drowning them. Superman seemed to be.. well, struggling to breathe.. i'm just trying to clearify this.. it isnt a deciding factor if he'll lose or not but..
Originally posted by SuppMan
are you sure superman doesn't need to breathe? i use to think that as well, but in one of the justice leage episodes where they get trapped in Atlantis, the atlantians attempt to kill superman, hawk girl, martian dude, and green lantern by drowning them. Superman seemed to be.. well, struggling to breathe.. i'm just trying to clearify this.. it isnt a deciding factor if he'll lose or not but..
Nuff said.
Originally posted by SuppManMeh, Even Jigglypuff can beat Goku if we're using non-canon evidence.
are you sure superman doesn't need to breathe? i use to think that as well, but in one of the justice leage episodes where they get trapped in Atlantis, the atlantians attempt to kill superman, hawk girl, martian dude, and green lantern by drowning them. Superman seemed to be.. well, struggling to breathe.. i'm just trying to clearify this.. it isnt a deciding factor if he'll lose or not but..
Originally posted by Vvendetathat really funny 😆
Goku never stop levitating with the 40 tons as normal, Goku didn’t feel the weights at all as Supersaiyan.As a comic relief Goku barely touch Chi chi and Chi chi went out of the house trough the wall. And Vegeta train in 300g, that show their strength
After the room of spirit of time Goku only interact his power with Cell, The monster Yakon and Buu, Buu is the ultimate stronger being in DB Universe, so you don´t see difference of great advantage in strength like when Superman interact with normal humans or Superheroes like Batman.
Originally posted by VegettoEX
Hiya. I just found this forum thread / discussion going through some website referrals. I have nothing I desire to contribute to the actual conversation taking place, but I would like to point out that while I'm flattered at the kind comments you've given Daizenshuu EX, that image is absolutely NOT something we have done.We do not "scanslate" the DragonBall manga, as it has essentially been optioned for translation and production in our country (USA) since we began our site back in 1998 (Viz began releasing a separate run of both DB & DBZ in 1998 in a traditional, monthly comic book format).
We have "scanslated" things like Neko Majin Z, and have promptly taken them down upon domestic release (the only example thus-far being Neko Majin Z 5, which appeared in the October 2007 domestic Shonen Jump). However, I repeat, we have never done the actual DragonBall manga. I have no comment on these particular images' translations.
Hope that helps in some way!
That's weird, I thought you guys did it since the scans had notes in the margins mentioning several of the same people who run your site.
Originally posted by Vvendeta
You have to use the word immediately don’t you?
Because that's the truth.
Goku don´t have to do those things, he is a fighter.
He does if you want to argue a physical strength advantage or parity.
BTW, Special Pleading fallacy.
The part that I show is showing Doomsday and Superman fighting in front of people, of course if that were Goku your coment would be different.
Because, as Kento already explained, they had been fighting for hours on end across the entire country, and they were both severely injured. Superman was trying to take Doomsday down before he destroyed Metropolis, so he was just in a slugfest at the time. Not to mention that was 15 years ago and he's way stronger and faster now. It doesn't even matter because he has confirmed speed feats (even against Doomsday, see Hunter/Prey and Doomsday Rex) that far exceed that.
Remember that Roshi and Krillin were not seing.
I already ran the numbers on that one. Not sound speed (except for maybe brief arm movements).
If you read the manga remember that just after the tournament Goku avoid bullets and Roshi catch them from a machine gun.
Now you're changing your argument, since you were claiming this happened at the budokai, not after.
They could not follow Dr. Gero.
Not when he was hiding from them. But when he was fighting they could.
As same as Doomsday vs Superman, besides, the moments they See are not showing any kind of action, but after, they don´t follow the moments of movement, like Sups vs Doomday. [/B]
Yes they are, they were commenting on the whole fight, they clearly saw that Goku was doing well, that he fought Cell, they saw the discrete blasts of ki, they saw Gohan fighting effectively, etc. I already explained the Doomsday thing.
???????????In the case of Cell Saga.
A=Gohan SSJ2
B=Cell
C=Goku SSJ1
D=Vegeta and Trunks
E=Piccolo after R. of Sp. And Time.
F=Cell Second Form
E=Android 17
G= Cell first form after absorbing humans
H=Piccolo merge with Kami=Android 17
I=Android 18
Then long behind the SSJ1 in Freeza arc
So A is superior from B to Z, plain logic.That is how DB argument and history is in each of their Sagas, that is how we know they are stronger, and is diferent from DC and Marvel.
First of all, you've got it backwards. > means "greater than" and you interpreted it as "lesser than". Second of all, all of that is meaningless unless you can quantify exactly how much stronger they are.
You base Superman fighting speed in his flying, I base Goku fighting speed in his fighting, Since his 100 g training and counting he previous speed evolution since DB.
Except you have not even attempted to quantify any of this. Do you know what "quantify" means? Secondly, Superman's speed feats extend to everything, not just flying.
But there is, you like to ignore to make Superman look better, and I use the movie to explain why we can see such histories like Batman hitting Superman. For entertainment, that don´t erase Superman or Goku speed according to their creator/writers
*snip*
The only times Batman ever hit Superman were:
A. Superman let him
B. It was a non - canon story (like Dark Knight Returns)
C. Batman was powered up by something
And what are those scans supposed to prove? Goku leaves the ship and flies past Burter and Jeice. So what?
You are the Superman expert tell me if that history is canon before or after the crisis, and why after that still Superman is draw fighting mostly with his fist.
All of that is Post - COIE. Infinite Crisis didn't reboot the entire DCU history like COIE did, it only retconned specific things (none of which are the ones I mentioned). Superman fights his opponents according to their abilities and threat level.
Because is fun?
How can it be fun if you think it's pointless?
About your comment about my grades, I pass my middle exams for your information and I just join this side in October so you don’t know me to say that is a trend on me to fail.
I was referring to your arguments.
And I know Goku better match for Superman than any other character, is the most dispute crossover all over the internet in many languages.
I'd say that Star Trek vs. Star Wars is more controversial (but that's a whole other bucket of worms)
And I don´t have to obey you, if a want to post a big scan ill do it.
But it's really annoying and clutters up the page, why do that when you could simply link it?
Originally posted by Kentoaren't they canon to their own universe? like the comic superman and animated superman are different but both canon to their own universe
Justice League cartoon isn't canon...Nor is Animated Superman even anywhere close to being like the comic version which is being used who can survive in space with no trouble and underwater.
Originally posted by Captain King
Goku's ki is about as much magic as when other superheroes use energy type powers.I will say this: Arguing Goku's ki is magic sense ki does have a supernatural basis around it is a more plausible argument then anything i've seen posted yet.
Brute force: Superman wins.
Versatility: Superman wins.
Fighting in space: Supes doesn't need to breathe so Superman wins.
Speed: Goku, but just barely.
If ki is infact considerd magical, Superman will be blown to smitherins immideatly. Which would be a huge upset cause we were all expecting an epic battle.
If ki is not considerd magic, no amount of kinetic force is going to keep Superman down. You're just going to piss him off. And all the punches and screaming and ranting isn't going to do you any good.
Btw, I don't consider Goku's feats beyond ssj1 when he fought Freiza as a good argument. Akira intentionaly made Goku the pinncale of power at that point. But demand for more caused him to comeup with more storyline, which was why it went down-hill from there.
Everything post-Freiza is little more then very well-written non-cannon elseworlds.
And instead of just arguing, why not someone make a fan doujinshii of it? It'd be alot better then alot of the fan-crap out there. And it'd be one of the rare few without any sortof yaoi pairing. (God willing..)
Goku's not faster and the ki/magic argument has already been done.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
All of that is Post - COIE. Infinite Crisis didn't reboot the entire DCU history like COIE did, it only retconned specific things (none of which are the ones I mentioned). Superman fights his opponents according to their abilities and threat level.
I read in other forum long ago that Asgard battle is right before crisis, but Ill take your word here.
So does Goku who fight skilled fighters base on the same powers of him.
Magee
Oh right so your using Superman feats from 15 years ago and comparing it to Gokus strongest showings, nice one.
Kento
No we base his fighting speed on the fact he can move and react and grab things, and build things, and everything at super speed.Batman has never hit Superman except once in Hush when Batman says Superman could kill him if he wasn't holding back and resisting the mind control of Poison Ivy and again when Batman was being controlled by Black Rock and had gained super strength. Never has Batman ever beaten Superman either.
Kento
Except that Trunks was still stronger physically than Cell while not more powerful nor faster yet he still could have killed Cell by just being stronger phyiscally. USSJ and USSJ2 made the person physically stronger but they were slow. FPSSJ made them more powerful and faster which is what Gokou did.If Gokou didn't need ssj to do it than he wouldn't have. Gokou didn't agree until King Kai said he could go ssj. If Kaioken would have worked then he wouldn't have complained about it at all.
Kento
Superman and Doomsday were sitting there pounding on each other...Of course they could be seen. Plus he was weaker and slower also.Didn't Gero like use a bright flash to get away or something to run away? Gero wasn't stronger than Vegeta or Piccolo.
Superman and Domsday didn't do anything for them not to follow. They stood exchanging blows. Something Superman should have been smarter than to try and do since he was getting hurt a lot more than Doomsday was.
Vvendeta
You have to use the word immediately don’t you?Endless Mike
Because that's the truth.
lol, I can use your big words here, The only way for you to know that is if Toriyama told you
Vvendeta
Goku don´t have to do those things, he is a fighter.Endless Mike
He does if you want to argue a physical strength advantage or parity.BTW, Special Pleading fallacy.
Goku don’t have situation were he confront black holes, or moving planets.
Is not a fallacy that he saves the world fighting because he is a fighter.
Vvendeta
The part that I show is showing Doomsday and Superman fighting in front of people, of course if that were Goku your coment would be different.Endless Mike
Because, as Kento already explained, they had been fighting for hours on end across the entire country, and they were both severely injured. Superman was trying to take Doomsday down before he destroyed Metropolis, so he was just in a slugfest at the time. Not to mention that was 15 years ago and he's way stronger and faster now. It doesn't even matter because he has confirmed speed feats (even against Doomsday, see Hunter/Prey and Doomsday Rex) that far exceed that.
Same like Goku, before 10g and 100 g Goku is above sound speed, then he do 20 kaioken to fight Freeza at his 50%, each kai o ken duplicate speed and strength, then Sjj1 is superior than 20 Kai o ken to fight 100 % Freeza, that is confirmed speed of Goku without the other SSJ levels, regardless plot holes or inconsistencies.
