Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy
Originally posted by Vvendeta
I am saying that we can find inconsistency in both, mostly DB I admit, but that don´t erase Superman speed, neither the low end feats can cancel that Goku has a history of evolution and progression in power, speed, and strength.
But he has not shown enough of any of them to beat Superman.
I don’t think superman is slow, but using inconsistencies in DB don’t erase Goku speed either, Goku have feats of speed in fighting.
Answer me with what speed you think Goku is fighting with Piccolo here seeing that Kami can not follow?*snip*
And with what speed you think Raditz came that Piccolo and Goku could not follow him?
Impossible to tell. It's never stated or shown what the maximum speed is that Kami or anyone else can follow with their eyes, so all we know is that they were faster than he could track. It's unquantifiable and therefore meaningless.
1.Superman soporters use Trunks transformation to say that The Z fighters does not improve in speed or power, Goku find another way to do that and your comment prove it.
Strawman. The point of that example is to show that an increase in ki does not necessarily mean an increase in speed.
2. Is not the most important part in the manga, with or without it does not change nothing, in fact I think Toriyama didn’t considerate nothing when he did this, for example that Goku first appearance Goku already was lifting a car, or later the Z sword, so kai o ken by Cell Saga was an old Transformation, Goku SSJ1 max is not 40 tons, if you think that, well lets say that I disagree totally.
Bulma's car was not anywhere near 40 tons (it likely wasn't even 2 tons). The weight of the Z sword is completely unquantifiable.
I repeat the same that I wrote to Magee, that it can be found mistakes or art style that give the impression they are slow in both, Toriyama is careless compare to Dc, give him a break he make a chapter every week, Superman is make mostly monthly and with a lot of writers and editors, I explain to Endless Mike that some parts like this, are make in sacrifice to make the history better, the scene with Doomsday does not erase Superman feats, neither if Mister Satan (mostly as a comic relief) when he is watching Goku fighting erase that Goku was invisible to the people when fighting Krillin. In the second tournament early in DB.
Of course Krillin and Roshi were invisible during that exchange, but not for the whole fight. DBZ characters can only move at those speeds for short bursts lasting a few seconds at most, not for an entire fight. They have no speed feats that come anywhere near Superman's speed.
lol, I can use your big words here, The only way for you to know that is if Toriyama told you
It's in the manga. I'm merely stating what is directly shown.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4909/gokuweak8be6.gif
Goku don’t have situation were he confront black holes, or moving planets.
Is not a fallacy that he saves the world fighting because he is a fighter.
It's a fallacy if you claim he can do these things with no evidence.
Same like Goku, before 10g and 100 g Goku is above sound speed, then he do 20 kaioken to fight Freeza at his 50%, each kai o ken duplicate speed and strength
A linear correlation between power levels/ki increase and actual physical stats has never been demonstrated.
then Sjj1 is superior than 20 Kai o ken to fight 100 % Freeza, that is confirmed speed of Goku without the other SSJ levels, regardless plot holes or inconsistencies.
*snip*
No, that's nothing but speculation based on nothing more than unfounded extrapolation, not actual quantifiable feats.
1 second? 2 Seconds? Is still a feat of speed
Of course it is. It's just not nearly as fast as some people make it out to be.
The red ribbon Saga follow right after the first Tenkaichi, Goku has the same speed than Roshi in the tournament, they are in sound speed in the early arcs.*snip*
You claimed they moved at sound speed during the budokai.
That show how fast they are, but they are better when they follow Ki.*snip*
Which is a major disadvantage in this fight, since Superman doesn't have DBZ ki.
Not the complete fight, but most of it.
Is the style that Toriyama that someone relate the fights, since the Tenkaichi Tournaments, is narrating the history, in DC style, they put square were superman or someone else like the writer explain what is happening, but if for that you are saying that Goku is slow, then I will keep Saying that doomsday and Superman are slow, tired or not they not suppose to be that slow, and Goku and Cell were not always seen.
Superman and Doomsday were only engaged in a slugfest at that time, not a high speed battle. It doesn't matter anyway since Superman has proven himself to be capable of speeds far beyond any DBZ character.
*snip*
In these scans it wasn't their speed that caused the announcer and Mr. Satan to lose track of them, it was the fact that they flew up high in the air. They never expected to see them fly up in the sky so they didn't think to look for them there. Like I said, DBZ characters can move invisibly for short bursts, but not for an entire fight.
So for you Cell and Buu are the same because is no quantification. Goku SSJ3 have less feats than SSJ1, that for you mean he is the same or weaker?
Another Strawman. Buu is clearly stronger than Cell. SSJ3 is clearly stronger than SSJ1. The issue is that we don't know how much stronger.
I am sure only you understand this.
And you know there is no quantification in DB only the powerlevels until Freeza saga, different than in Marvel and DC, so comparing lack numbers, therefore base on this you don’t and never know how powerful maximum SSJ3 is, but it seens for you that Roshi is more powerful than Goku because Roshi destroy the moon and goku Don´t, that is your logic.
Goku is clearly stronger than Roshi. He could destroy the moon in the same way, and likely the earth too, since he has a comparable power to Kid Buu, who did so. Stop using strawman arguments.
