Superman vs Goku (Official Thread)

Originally posted by dvampire
Holding back from hurting his opponent is a skill. He doesn't just randomly come into a fight swinging with full force.

How many times have Goku used pressure points? Has he ever used them at all? Where was his skill when he was fighting Buu who had no fighting back ground of any kind of fighting skill.

do you mean holding back is a martial arts or combat skill?

pressure points isn't the only martial arts in the whole wide world.

you didn't asnwer my question, how rare is that pressure point scene?
1 in a 100000000000000000000000000000000000000?

goku is using a martial arts every arc. read the manga again and look at his punches and kicks. it has styles......
it's very different to superman, who just swing his feet and fist with no styles.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
do you mean holding back is a martial arts or combat skill?

It shows his fighting ability. Being able to measure how much power it takes to put your opponent down is skill. He even measures the exact melting point of his opponent before using his Heat Vision.

[QUOTE]pressure points isn't the only martial arts in the whole wide world.

But it's a skill I've seen Supes use, while Goku hasn't at all.

you didn't asnwer my question, how rare is that pressure point scene?
1 in a 100000000000000000000000000000000000000?

Has Goku ever used a pressure point?

goku is using a martial arts every arc. read the manga again and look at his punches and kicks. it has styles......

Yeah, but Kid Buu knows no MAs, yet he was able to fight with Goku. Vegeta has no MAs back ground, and like Buu, he was also able to fight with Goku. Supes uses his skills when they're needed to get the job done.

it's very different to superman, who just swing his feet and fist with no styles.

Look above.

Originally posted by dvampire
It shows his fighting ability. Being able to measure how much power it takes to put your opponent down is skill. He even measures the exact melting point of his opponent before using his Heat Vision.

is that a martial arts? or fighting ability?

sounds like a measurement to me.

Originally posted by dvampire
But it's a skill I've seen Supes use, while Goku hasn't at all.

Has Goku ever used a pressure point?.[/B]

yet, goku is using martial arts every chapter while supes is so rare.
answer my question, how many times did superman use that pressure point? 1 in a 10000000000000000?

Originally posted by dvampire Yeah, but Kid Buu knows no MAs, yet he was able to fight with Goku. Vegeta has no MAs back ground, and like Buu, he was also able to fight with Goku. Supes uses his skills when they're needed to get the job done.

Look above.

it was mentioned in the manga that vegeta and freeza's men are all soldiers and they are trained to conquer planets. in other words, vegeta has a different fighting skills.

majin-boo is million or billion of yrs old and destroying anything on his path, he has skills plus he can learn any skills by watching it. i said read dragon ball manga again.

Originally posted by dvampire
Holding back from hurting his opponent is a skill. He doesn't just randomly come into a fight swinging with full force.

How many times have Goku used pressure points? Has he ever used them at all? Where was his skill when he was fighting Buu who had no fighting back ground of any kind.

Holding back is not fighting skill, that makes no sense at all.

As for Buu, I take it you are talking about Kid Buu. First of all, Kid Buu is stronger, faster, and more powerful than him, and is capable of doing things like extending himself and rolling into a ball during H2H, that is why he couldn't beat him.

As for Vegeta, Vegeta was trained in Saiyan combat martial arts dude. 😬

Originally posted by nij-ayias
majin-boo is million or billion of yrs old and destroying anything on his path, he has skills plus he can learn any skills by watching it. i said read dragon ball manga again. [/B]

You do realize that Buu was sealed away for those millions of years, do you?

Originally posted by pr1983
adding to the fact that several of joey stacks' statements about superman were actually wrong, the 'quit life' statement is out of line.

and yet again, i see people underrating superman as a fighter... he only spars regularly with wonder woman, and trains with batman...

yeah, nothing impressive about that...

Actually dude...WW and Batman ARE masters of H2H.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
true, without training goku is nothing.

and you called that fair?

Originally posted by Sarutobi700
^^Nope Goku would be a Saiyan able to transform to a full moon and would naturally be stronger than normal humans. Put Supes and Goku under a red sun.

Red sunlight was retconned to only locking Superman at his current state. This lock goes away once exposed to yellow sunlight again.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Actually dude...WW and Batman ARE masters of H2H.

true but ww and batman are not fast-pace fighters, they're not trained like that.

wonder woman and superman style of high speed fights are pure physical strength then high speed fly, not an agile type.

while batman involves tactics, strategies and knowledge.

true but ww and batman are not fast-pace fighters, they're not trained like that.

Wonder Woman does have vast superspeed, the whole her blocking things with her braclets at super speeds is an iconic thing about her. She gone on races with flashes and kept up, I think it's fair to say she has super human reactions.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Wonder Woman does have vast superspeed, the whole her blocking things with her braclets at super speeds is an iconic thing about her. She gone on races with flashes and kept up, I think it's fair to say she has super human reactions.

yes, blocking a bullet 😄

races with flashes is a travel speed.

reactions are not reflexes or agility.

ww punches, kicks, blocking and dodging skills aren't at the same speed of his traveling/flying.

plz quit saying speed feats that doesn't involve fighting or agility.

Please quit commiting the sham distinction fallacy. I'm sure that a guy who can vibrate in place so that attacks go through him and that he appears invisible, who can fight some all around the world in moments, fly to jupiter in under four minutes wouldn't have problems moving other parts of his body faster than your average human.

Quit making it sound like Superman has no skill at all. He still moves faster than goku. who has not proven to be able to move at the speeds superman has been proven to be able to.

All you see from goku is your basic punches and kicks and shoot the shit out of something with ki.

Superman has more training than Goku. Goku was only taught martial arts by his grandad every thing after that was related to power, speed and what but not actually h2h skills. In dbz he uses the same moves when he fights, Goku just relied on his power along with the limited h2h skills he knew. Superman has trained with and been taught h2h skills by WonderWoman, Batman and Mongul. Either way its irrelevant in this fight as h2h skill means nothing when your opponent is 1000x faster than you and one million times stronger. Fuk Goku must be the most over rated anime character ever.

yes, blocking a bullet

She's also blocked countless lasers.

races with flashes is a travel speed.

She wasn't flying, she was running at approaching lightspeeed and reacting to obstacles at those speeds. If she can move her limbs at lightspeed and think at those speeds maybe she can fight at them too.

You might as well say Flash can't fast because his high speed feats come from running.

To suggest Superman doesn't have super human speed is idiotic. He's gone and fetched things from the other side of the world travelling so fast people standing next to him haven't noticed.

Green Arrow in the JLA moonbase was talking to Superman who was helping out on the farm in kansas on a computer screen. When he said something Superman didn't like, Superman appeared in front of Green Arrow instantly. Also during that same instant he changed from his farmers clothes into his costume.

He would of needed vast superspeed to do that. A person with normal reactions could never do that. Unless you think a normal person could travel from Earth to the watch tower at faster than light speeds, enter the watch tower, without crashing through a wall, safely navigate his way round the corridors at those speeds then come to a stop in front of Green arrow all while changing your outfit.

Fuk Goku must be the most over rated anime character ever.

Eva unit 01. 'AT fields are immune to all damage, evidence be damned!'

Originally posted by Creshosk
Please quit commiting the sham distinction fallacy. I'm sure that a guy who can vibrate in place so that attacks go through him and that he appears invisible, who can fight some all around the world in moments, fly to jupiter in under four minutes wouldn't have problems moving other parts of his body faster than your average human.

i didn't commit any fallacy, how sure are you? if you're sure prove it not speculate.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Quit making it sound like Superman has no skill at all. He still moves faster than goku. who has not proven to be able to move at the speeds superman has been proven to be able to.

i didn't suggest that superman has no skill but what i'm trying to point is, how rare did superman use that skill you're talking about? 1 in a 1000000000000

still he can be knock down with slower opponents

Originally posted by Creshosk
All you see from goku is your basic punches and kicks and shoot the shit out of something with ki.

it's not just basic punches, it's flurry of punches and kicks with style. not like superman

the ki you're talking about can destroy a planet, solar system and dimension.

Originally posted by Magee
Superman has more training than Goku. Goku was only taught martial arts by his grandad every thing after that was related to power, speed and what but not actually h2h skills. In dbz he uses the same moves when he fights, Goku just relied on his power along with the limited h2h skills he knew. Superman has trained with and been taught h2h skills by WonderWoman, Batman and Mongul. Either way its irrelevant in this fight as h2h skill means nothing when your opponent is 1000x faster than you and one million times stronger. Fuk Goku must be the most over rated anime character ever.

it was superman that relied on power not goku.

it's funny that the result of training you're talking about didn't show-up in infinite crisis and up up and away storyline.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
She's also blocked countless lasers.

and batman dodge lasers too.

still,where is the laser blocking reflexes you're talking about when wonder woman fights slow opponents?

Originally posted by Galvaclaw

She wasn't flying, she was running at approaching lightspeeed and reacting to obstacles at those speeds. If she can move her limbs at lightspeed and think at those speeds maybe she can fight at them too.

you said maybe, which means you're not sure of it because wonder woman didn't use any of that reflexes/agility in fighting.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw

You might as well say Flash can't fast because his high speed feats come from running.

i wouldn't say that but DC/MARVEL characters were only super fast when there were no fights involved.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw

To suggest Superman doesn't have super human speed is idiotic. He's gone and fetched things from the other side of the world travelling so fast people standing next to him haven't noticed.

i didn't suggest that, but superman lacks skill to do it or he can't apply it.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw

Green Arrow in the JLA moonbase was talking to Superman who was helping out on the farm in kansas on a computer screen. When he said something Superman didn't like, Superman appeared in front of Green Arrow instantly. Also during that same instant he changed from his farmers clothes into his costume.

since when did he apply that kind of speed in fighting or should i say, is that fighting?

Originally posted by Galvaclaw

He would of needed vast superspeed to do that. A person with normal reactions could never do that. Unless you think a normal person could travel from Earth to the watch tower at faster than light speeds, enter the watch tower, without crashing through a wall, safely navigate his way round the corridors at those speeds then come to a stop in front of Green arrow all while changing your outfit.

i know, i know but still that doesn't involve reflexes and agility or should i say fighting.

Reflexes is how fast someone can react. Superman can perform complex maneuvers that couldn't be performed by someone who could think 1000 times the speed of an average person.

Fine, I'm loathe to do this because your deranged idea no american comic character has super speed, but here:

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/4530/08222005115613am7bx.jpg
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/679/08222005124311pm3un.jpg
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9203/pics0017bn.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9558/supermanandmongul8pr.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

There super fast combat. After images, speed lines, phasing through attacks. All super fast combat techniques.

But I'm not sure why I'm having to do this. Haven't you seen smallville? Where every time clark uses his superspeed time grinds to a halt while clark moves normally.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Reflexes is how fast someone can react. Superman can perform complex maneuvers that couldn't be performed by someone who could think 1000 times the speed of an average person.

Fine, I'm loathe to do this because your deranged idea no american comic character has super speed, but here:

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/4530/08222005115613am7bx.jpg
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/679/08222005124311pm3un.jpg
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9203/pics0017bn.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9558/supermanandmongul8pr.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

There super fast combat. After images, speed lines, phasing through attacks. All super fast combat techniques.

But I'm not sure why I'm having to do this. Haven't you seen smallville? Where every time clark uses his superspeed time grinds to a halt while clark moves normally.

the last two scans are different version of superman, smallville too.

anyway.........

is that all?

you didn't answer my last question,

how rare is that? 5 in a 10000000000000000000000?

provide evidence that superman will use that in goku vs. superman thread, since he didn't use that in infinite crisis and it's crossvers.

goku uses martial arts, agility, reflexes and skills in all the chapters of dragon ball.

He uses his super speed when he's fighting super fast opponents. Just because it isn't drawn with blurry afterimages and speed lines (and as Galvaclaw showed, sometimes it is) doesn't mean it's not fast. Show me one feat from any DBZ character that comes even close to Superman fighting Wonder Woman all around the world and to the sun and back in 1 minute and 54 seconds, or searching every building and area in a 200 - mile radius in seconds.

Oh, and in case anyone has forgotten, forum rules:

Originally posted by digimark007
The "No PIS" Rule

PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity

At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

the last two scans are different version of superman, smallville too.

Superman changed his symbol to black for while to morns the millions who died during Our worlds at war. I grabbed those pages from the first post of a 70 page respect thread I could provide countless others. Since Infinite crisis Superman has used super human speed to fight many of his foes. Subjekt 17, Arion, Triumph and many others. I know, I have every issue since then.

provide evidence that superman will use that in goku vs. superman thread, since he didn't use that in infinite crisis and it's crossvers.

He fought three people during Infinite crisis. All three of them has Superspeed even Mongul. One of them has even speed blitzed multiple flashes at the same time. Earth 2 Superman is fast enough to casually drop Zoom. Zoom is vastly faster than Goku.

Superman has never lost a fight to someone fast because he didn't use superspeed. If someone uses it he strikes back faster and harder.

Now you tell me something. Superman is stronger compared to Goku than Goku is to you. Able to lift near infinite weight versus Goku who can at most lift a few thousand tons. Where does Goku's dubious skill come to play? Can a martial artist beat up a tank?