Superman vs Goku (Official Thread)

yes, but how far did pai pai throw the pillar? some dude is excellent at math did some calculations and showed that the distance the pillar was thrown was thrown would make him stronger than base goku if he was having trouble moving with the ten tons. i don't have a link to the site where i saw this, it was years ago, i'll see if i can find it. it shows the math and everything. although it isn't exact and some it is understandably estimation, which could be problamatic i suppose. sorry, but anyway, it is a contradiction. AT can hardly be blamed for it though, as it is pretty technical and i doubt he's a math whiz. still, it is a contradiction. it just goes to show that you can't throw out character feats because there are some contradictions. you have to average them out. if a feat is way to far on either the low or high end and everything else is far different, then you throw it out.

what it boils down to though is the fact that comic supes would destroy goku. easily. movie supes? well he did lift a k-nite island with a sliver of k-nite in his side, which is damn impressive. imo movie supes also beats goku, but it is much closer than a fight with comic supes.

Originally posted by emporerpants
yes, but how far did pai pai throw the pillar? some dude is excellent at math did some calculations and showed that the distance the pillar was thrown was thrown would make him stronger than base goku if he was having trouble moving with the ten tons. i don't have a link to the site where i saw this, it was years ago, i'll see if i can find it. it shows the math and everything. sorry, but it is a contradiction. AT can hardly be blamed for it though, as it is pretty technical and i doubt he's a math whiz. still, it is a contradiction. it just goes to show that you can't throw out character feats because there are some contradictions. you have to average them out. if a feat is way to far on either the low or high end and everything else is far different, then you throw it out.

what it boils down to though is the fact that comic supes would destroy goku. easily. movie supes? well he did lift a k-nite island with a sliver of k-nite in his side, which is damn impressive. imo movie supes also beats goku, but it is much closer than a fight with comic supes.

This single unintended contradiction (If it can be called that) is no reason to say the Manga contradicts itself. Per size-weight ratio a ten pound weight going ten feet is equal to a pillar going hundreds of feet.

There are many intended and unintended contradictions in comics, many. Since the comic book universe is so much bigger (So big that they have to have parallel universes to explain everything) than a Manga's. And something this big is bound to have feats that exceed or exaggerate a heroes power, so these feats can't be used, but a Manga heroes' feats can be used more accurately.

The general picture of Superman's powers, (Which include's more people than this site or any other site) feels that these feats are exaggerations, I could start a nation wide poll showing these feats and ask if they were exaggerations of Superman's powers and mostly they would say yes.

I'm not saying you can't use these feats, I'm saying why use them.

the problem is that goku doesn't have very many qauntifiable feats, and the one he does have is pathetic compared to supes. if we average out supes's feats, he's still FAR greater than goku. if supes was to one day move something the weight of a super massive blackhole and then have no other feats even close to that level, then that would have to be thrown out as pis. however, if he starts doing stuff like that alot, then it can be used as and acceptable example of his strength.

in any event, with supes feats, comic supes wins easily. however, if we're talking about movie supes, thats a different ball game.

Originally posted by emporerpants
the problem is that goku doesn't have very many qauntifiable feats, and the one he does have is pathetic compared to supes. if we average out supes's feats, he's still FAR greater than goku. if supes was to one day move something the weight of a super massive blackhole and then have no other feats even close to that level, then that would have to be thrown out as pis. however, if he starts doing stuff like that alot, then it can be used as and acceptable example of his strength.

in any event, with supes feats, comic supes wins easily. however, if we're talking about movie supes, thats a different ball game.

Taking a matter cutting, Saiyan killing beam of death to the face isn't 'quantifiable' enough? It can cut through the most durable substance in the known universe, Saiyan armor, millions of times more advanced than anything 'Man' can comprehend!

Here I thought adamantium and Cap's shield were Man made.

Goku doesn't even need a strength feat, because Chi gets more devastating per size-weight ratio the stronger the user becomes, 😛

Wasn't Cap's shield an accident or something? Plus the whole fact that Marvel and DBU are two different things. There are plenty of people smarter than anybody in DB could ever hope to be. And didn't Freeza puncture saiyan armor with his horn in second form when he stabbed Krillen? Or was that just the anime? I don't remember. Contradictions in DB. How about the fact Cell says he has the power to destroy the Solar System and Gohan blocks it than in the Buu saga Kid Buu uses a blast that only destroys Earth but neither Gokou nor Vegeta can block it and they are alot stronger than Cell or Teen Gohan. Piccolo and Master Roshi both use a blast to blow up the moon nearly instantly yet every other ki blast isn't even close to being that fast. There is probably more if I think harder but those come to me from the top of my head besides the whole Tao Pai Pai throwing the pillar. And Gokou was on Grand Kai's homeworld with the ten ton weights. But ten tons is ten tons. Why would he say ten tons and make them 100 tons?

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
1: Again, what Manga volume are you referring to???

2: I'm not using comic Superman, I'm using movie Superman.

Superman did all that, yet he was hurt by Thor's hammer and Spiderman's punch, face it, comics contridict each other, Mangas don't.

Yeah Superman went back in time, that happens when a mass the size of a man moves at light speed.

Then I guess all of your arguments should be discarded as they contradict.

"Oh I'm not using the comic book version of Superman except when there are low showings that are not in continuity anyway."

But since you want to use the movie version of superman he goes back in time (sorry that's one of his powers no matter how hard you try to argue against it.) and beats Goku when he was "earlier in the manga".

Sorry it doesn't work that way. As much as you think that the comics contradict they are still the canon that is to be used in the comic book forum.

So enough of this "I didn't like it therefore its not being used. Bullshit of yours. Face facts you're trying to get the comic version of superman thrown out? Why? You know that Goku doesn't stand a chance against him and want goku to win. So to get a version of superman thrown out you foolishly think the version you picked can be beaten..

Yeah I shouldn't have brought this up, everyone is mind set on Supes winning.

What does proving the movie isn't canon have to do with everybody set on Superman winning. I think very few people would think movie Superman would loose to Gokou anyway with his whole turning back time, and lifting that huge mass of Kryptonite.

Originally posted by Kento
What does proving the movie isn't canon have to do with everybody set on Superman winning. I think very few people would think movie Superman would loose to Gokou anyway with his whole turning back time, and lifting that huge mass of Kryptonite.

Turning back time doesn't effect present day Goku. Neither does superior strength. You can't hurt what you can't touch. Goku could by all means speed blitz movie Superman.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Yeah I shouldn't have brought this up, everyone is mind set on Supes winning.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Turning back time doesn't effect present day Goku. Neither does superior strength.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Turning back time doesn't effect present day Goku. Neither does superior strength. You can't hurt what you can't touch. Goku could by all means speed blitz movie Superman.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Turning back time means that Superman can take out Goku in the past. If Goku is taken out in the past he never makes it to present day. Do you know anything about temporal mechanics?

Obviously you don't, look up time travel on wikipedia.

If you were to go back in time and kill your father, you would still be alive, when you go back in time you go into another universe.

Sorry, movie Superman's invulnerabitlity>>>>>>>Over Goku's output, the only thing that realy hurt movie Supes was Kryptonite

And Gokou speedblizting movie Superman would do what? Because he's faster at fighting doesn't mean he'll be able to hurt him. And the whole turning back time thing has been talked about though I was talking more about the fact it's more speed than Gokou has and while Gokou may have the combat speed he's not going to see or dodge Superman plowing right into him moving at speed near that of turning back time.

Did you know that time moves slower around a moving object than a non moving object, thats why you get there faster than if you were standing still, thats what creates gravity.

Goku had to of moved back in time in order to dodge Freeza's death beam, he just didn't cover as much distance as Superman. Going backward in time or not, Goku could still dodge him.

And two punches actually do more damage than one to a central point if they hit at the same time with the same amount of force, because when you puch something it distorts and recovers, if you hit the same thing again after it recovered it would do no more damage than your first punch, but if you hit it again before it recovered, than it would distort even more. So in theory the more Goku hits Superman the more damage he does.

Goku's punches aren't soft either, not even to Superman, where as they lack strength, they make up for in speed, a slow strong arm will do the same amount of damage as a fast weak arm.

If we do Superman 1>2> Returns rather than 1>4 movie Superman does have Superspeed. Using purely the old movies it's inconclusive.

Movie Superman is stronger than Goku. He lifted a huge Kryptonite Island into space. Where as goku greates feat from the anime is small mountain in half. In a fist fight Goku isn't winning. While the speed thing is debatable as Returns Superman lacks the spteed feats comic or smallville Superman has.

However I haven't seen much for Movie in the way of durability to energy attacks. Without feats he could go down to a kamehameha. Though taking the vastly powerful blows of Zod and others speaks of high durability.

I give this 50/50

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Obviously you don't, look up time travel on wikipedia.

Yeah wikipedia, other people's thoughts which makes it amount to as much as an ad populem argument.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
If you were to go back in time and kill your father, you would still be alive, when you go back in time you go into another universe.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Did you know that time moves slower around a moving object than a non moving object, thats why you get there faster than if you were standing still, thats what creates gravity.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Goku had to of moved back in time in order to dodge Freeza's death beam, he just didn't cover as much distance as Superman. Going backward in time or not, Goku could still dodge him.

Simpelest solution: It was not as fast as you say it was.

Goku can go back in time. 🙄

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
And two punches actually do more damage than one to a central point if they hit at the same time with the same amount of force, because when you puch something it distorts and recovers, if you hit the same thing again after it recovered it would do no more damage than your first punch, but if you hit it again before it recovered, than it would distort even more. So in theory the more Goku hits Superman the more damage he does.

And don't forget that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. At the same time the fist is hitting the chest the chest is hitting the fist. hich is why you can break something by hitting it on something else.

So its also possible that Goku would break his hand.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Goku's punches aren't soft either, not even to Superman, where as they lack strength, they make up for in speed, a slow strong arm will do the same amount of damage as a fast weak arm.

Considering movie Superman time traveled its safe to assume he can move faster than light, wether he can react at the speed is another story. It does not matter all Superman has to do is fly in to Goku at near light speed and its bye bye Goku. Every week some fanboy brings up a different version of Superman in an attempt for Goku to win. The only version that would probably lose is animated Superman.

cellophane S ftw.

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