Superman vs Goku (Official Thread)

Started by Galvaclaw135 pages
He's convinced that it as moving at the speed of light which according to wikipedia means that according to Einstein Goku was time and dimensionally traveling in order to dodge it.

Wikipedia doesn't say that, god knows where he got it from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel#Time_dilation

It says someone travelling at the speed of light would travel into the future but only from their point of view. Not to an observer. It's explained better in the link. The anime Gunbuster does a great job too.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Wikipedia doesn't say that, god knows where he got it from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel#Time_dilation

It says someone travelling at the speed of light would travel into the future but only from their point of view. Not to an observer. It's explained better in the link. The anime Gunbuster does a great job too.

Yeah that's what the guy doesn't understand about relativity. Its not that there actually IS(if there was it wouldn't be called the theory orf relativity) a time differential, its that there seems to be RELATIVE to the mover and the observer.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
You obviously don't understand how weightlifting works. Having just re watched the scene Superman is actually holding the entire island with his arms (if he had of balanced it on his shoulders you would be right). That means he is supporting the trillion ton mass of the island using his strength. He is also having having the force generated through his flight being transferred to the island through the arms.

He also throws it at the end, while weakened heavily by Kryptonite. So that damn well is strength and puts him at a vastly stronger level than Goku. Saying Superman who can lift and throw an island will have trouble with 10 ton weights is like saying I'd have trouble with 1 pound weights.

Also what's so amazing about Frieza's death beam?

His arms were just holding the weight, not pushing it. Now if he threw the island into Earth orbit he'd be stronger than Super Saiyan Goku. I'll admit he stronger than base Goku, but thats about it.

He through the island when he was in space, which is no incredible feat, because in space things weigh a lot less. And most of the rock had fallen back down to Earth.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw It says someone travelling at the speed of light would travel into the future but only from their point of view. Not to an observer.[/B]

Thats correct.

He still had to reach escape velocity while lifting a ****ing kryptonite island. One full force punch from comic Superman should really kill Goku considering they have pretty shit resistance to blunt force. This is shown by things like breaking bones and always bleeding, Goku would not be able to dodge it and it would either K.O him or kill him.

Originally posted by Magee
He still had to reach escape velocity while lifting a ****ing kryptonite island. One full force punch from comic Superman should really kill Goku considering they have pretty shit resistance to blunt force. This is shown by things like breaking bones and always bleeding, Goku would not be able to dodge it and it would either K.O him or kill him.

The velocity was from his flight.

Freeza's beam was real close to light speed, I don't see where you get that big a deference from light and a bullet, yeah light travels at incredible speed, but it's not infinite, I mean it takes light years to reach Earth from the another sun.

If you think Freeza's death beam was slow or weak compared to Superman than read Manga volume 10 page 60-61,

Picccolo "I...didn't even...see it! It looked like there was a flash of light...and..."

if goku vibrated throug hfreeza's beams wouldnt that mean he was light speed? I know when superman does it, he is vibrating his molecules at light speed. Not sure though.

His arms were just holding the weight, not pushing it. Now if he threw the island into Earth orbit he'd be stronger than Super Saiyan Goku. I'll admit he stronger than base Goku, but thats about it.

One you still don't understand how lifting works. If his arms aren't buckling under the weight he's still lifting it and resisting not only billions of tons of weight but the vast force needed to propel a man and a multi kilometer diameter island into space coming in the opposite direction.

Go up to a wall put your hands on it with your elbows slightly bent. Now push forward with your legs. Notice your arms are having to work to stop you going face first into the wall. You are having to provide a reaction equal to that provided by your legs. Superman is just using flight as propulsion rather than his legs.

Two your way over rating Goku's strength. How do you compare base Goku who struggled with 40 tons to someone who can launch an island into space. SS2 Goku struggled to push a building sized mountain in half.

Assuming a 4km wide cube made of diamond ( close enough to Kryptonian crystal) It would have a mass 54 billion tons. 4km is a good bet as the average depth of the Atlantic ocean is 3.2km

Using a handy online calculator http://www.1728.com/gravity.htm. A 54 trillion ton object would have a Gravitational force of 2.1611e+17 to overcome to move it at a 100km distance from Earth. It would take exponentially more energy to move it at any great speed. I could work out how much more but eh.

That energy is the equivalent to lifting 1 e+13 or 10 billion tons. Yeah that's comparable to having 10 tons on each limb. This is also bearing in mind he had almost no strength left at this point.

Picccolo "I...didn't even...see it! It looked like there was a flash of light...and..."

Doesn't a gun do the same thing? flash of light, bullet moves to fast to see.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw

Doesn't a gun do the same thing? flash of light, bullet moves to fast to see. [/B]

Not too fast for Piccollo to see, as Ive said before they see with their senses when they can't rely on their eyes.

Speed of light( in a vacuum)= 2.99792458 X 10^8 m/s.

If you round that off, it's 300 billion meters per second.

The beam probably did move at close to 30 billion meters, seeing as how the Z fighters eyes were looking at Freeza and not moving while the beam was behind them.

The death beam was hella fast, I would compare it to light speed. Goku dodging Freeza's single death beam wasn't much of a feat, but dodging several that were fired at separate times without moving out of his position makes him quicker than light speed.

So because it's fast it must be light speed? You haven't got any evidence only that it was too fast for picolo to see.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
So because it's fast it must be light speed? You haven't got any evidence only that it was too fast for picolo to see.

And that it was behind them when they were looking at Freeza.

Originally posted by Creshosk
and time travel thus going into another dimension thus not doing anything to current superman. 🙄

Wrong....another universe that is part of the multi-verse...theoretically. 😉

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wrong....another universe that is part of the multi-verse...theoretically. 😉
probably didn't pick up on the sarcasm. as those are his arguments.

Movie superman goes back in time he winds up going to another dimension. His argument.
Goku had to go back in time to dodge the beam. His argument.

Dodging the beam=going back in time && going back in time=going to another dimension.
Therefore
Dodging the beam=going back in time=going to another dimension.
therefore
Dodging the beam=going to another dimension.

His arguments. Sound ridiculous? Tell combat_guru...

Originally posted by Creshosk
probably didn't pick up on the sarcasm. as those are his arguments.

Movie superman goes back in time he winds up going to another dimension. His argument.
Goku had to go back in time to dodge the beam. His argument.

Dodging the beam=going back in time && going back in time=going to another dimension.
Therefore
Dodging the beam=going back in time=going to another dimension.
therefore
Dodging the beam=going to another dimension.

His arguments. Sound ridiculous? Tell combat_guru...

Complete misinterpretation of my argument, but its cool.

What I meant is by Superman logic when you travel faster than light you go back in time, I don't know if thats true in real life, but when you do go back in time deferent stuff happens, therefore it's a deferent universe.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Complete misinterpretation of my argument, but its cool.

No, it's not:

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Goku had to of moved back in time in order to dodge Freeza's death beam

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
when you go back in time you go into another universe.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
What I meant is by Superman logic when you travel faster than light you go back in time, I don't know if thats true in real life, but when you do go back in time deferent stuff happens, therefore it's a deferent universe.
Originally posted by Combat_Guru
Goku had to of moved back in time in order to dodge Freeza's death beam

*hums the Hamster Dance song*

Originally posted by Creshosk
No, it's not:

*hums the Hamster Dance song*

If deferent stuff happens how is it the exact same universe????? What logic is behind that???

Originally posted by Creshosk
probably didn't pick up on the sarcasm. as those are his arguments.

Movie superman goes back in time he winds up going to another dimension. His argument.
Goku had to go back in time to dodge the beam. His argument.

Dodging the beam=going back in time && going back in time=going to another dimension.
Therefore
Dodging the beam=going back in time=going to another dimension.
therefore
Dodging the beam=going to another dimension.

His arguments. Sound ridiculous? Tell combat_guru...

I was actually being a smartass myself. 😄

I was kind of hinting around to the inaccuracies of things are done in those universes...the writers like to say "another dimension" waay too much.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
If deferent stuff happens how is it the exact same universe????? What logic is behind that???
What's the logic of "Goku dodged the beam into another universe"? Especially when you have no proof of the beam being lightspeed. 🙂

If he went back in time to dodge the beam then he went into another universe according to your arguments.

I'd like for you to provide on panel evidence that says that goku can time travel, dimensionally teleport or hell even just go loight speed, which if you'd actually read the thread you'd have read how that notion is disproven.

Faster than the eye can see does not equate to lightspeed. An energy attack that gives off light also obviously is not going lightspeed.

Originally posted by Creshosk
What's the logic of "Goku dodged the beam into another universe"? Especially when you have no proof of the beam being lightspeed. 🙂

If he went back in time to dodge the beam then he went into another universe according to your arguments.

I'd like for you to provide on panel evidence that says that goku can time travel, dimensionally teleport or hell even just go loight speed, which if you'd actually read the thread you'd have read how that notion is disproven.

Faster than the eye can see does not equate to lightspeed. An energy attack that gives off light also obviously is not going lightspeed.

1: There is no logic because its not proven in real life that you can go back in time, but according to Superman logic you can, and if thats true than yes, Goku goes back in time into another universe because he's so fast, but he didn't in the Manga because it doesn't go by Superman logic.

2: Not according to my logic, according to Superman logic, 😄

3: It's proven that the human eye couldn't see the beam, and since the Z fighters couldn't see it with senses, it must not give off any light, thus it's faster than light itself.

4: ^

I can't edit my last post, when I said it doesn't give off light, I meant you see the light it generates long after it's been there.

So what you're basically saying is Freeza's Death Beam and Freeza Saga Gokou is faster than Cell Saga and Buu Saga Gokou and blasts? Just because they couldn't see his blast?

And Flash and Superman both travel light speed without ever time traveling.