Originally posted by emporerpants
75 times in strength eh? where did you pull that number from?
My butt...
besideds even if it WAS a 75 time increase, thats still NOTHING compared to supes. if you think it is, then you clearly don't read superman comics.
Wrong on both assumptions, a USSJ is stronger, and do read Superman comics, how else would I know all of Supes retcons and exaggerations?
so, you just admitted that you made the 75 times up, and you're trying use that as evidence? as for how you'd know about the retcons and stuff, probably from this site. its not hard to find on here. and no, you don't read superman comics, or you'd know that 75 times of what goku has shown is NOTHING. hell, you don't even know that much about dragonball as you required a post of the 10 ten incident.
Originally posted by Combat_GuruIt's not superman logic. Did you even watch the movie? It wasn't that he was going lightspeed, its that he was able to reverse the rotation of the EArth as if that would somehow make time move backwards rather than simply make the sun rise in the west and set in the east. Ity wasn't that he was going faster than the speed of light.
I said according to Superman logic
Originally posted by Combat_GuruAnd I'm not saying that. I'm saying that you have no proof that moving at the speed of light would allow goku to go back in time, nor do you have any proof of Goku even being able to go light speed.
if you move fast enough you can achieve time travel, but not in DBZ, so you can't say that because Goku didn't go back in time he didn't move as fast as Superman.
Originally posted by Combat_GuruYeah your arguments are pretty damned stupid aren't they?
🙄
Originally posted by Combat_GuruTranslation: I'm just a troll who has no way of backing my ludicruois claims.
I'm not going to bother, just like you won't bother to read what I type.
🙂
I ask for evidence of your claims and you tell me to give up? Well I'm going to tell you to quit trolling.
Originally posted by Combat_GuruBecause the rest has already been dealt with...Cell didn't go 100% like Freeza...Freeza didn't get slower but got faster and Kaioken made Gokou buffer but he was still faster also. Cell did the same thing Trunks did. Made himself stronger but slower because he was angry. I believe Trunks' even comments on it plus Cell when fighting Trunks says that he can do the same thing also. Cell also has more saiyan in him than whatever Freeza is. It's why he gets the ssj2 aura once he returns from blowing up so it's a bit safer to say he went USSJ. Not faster, angry, Trunks comments on it, and he doesn't do it again when he returns and has a Kamehameha war with Gohan. If that was him going 100% he'd have done it then when he was going all out against Gohan.
Cell didn't go USSJ, he went 100%, like Freeza, he did have Freeza's genes.
I'm not a troll but you are flamers, you can't just call some one a douchebag on public forums!
I proved Creshosk wrong about time travel, and instead of admitting it he called me a douchebag!!!
I'm not debating with flamers, I have no intention of trolling either. Saying a comic book character can be defeated is completely deferent from saying he's a bad or stupid character, I'm not trolling, but you are flaming.
I'd appreciate an apology from you, Creshosk, but I don't expect one, just like I don't expect you to admit you were wrong about time travel, which you know little about, you aren't anything but a flamer, 😛
I own many Superman comics, quit assuming that I don't, I'll admit that Cell might have been a USSJ, but a USSJ is extremely strong. And I'll admit that comic Superman is stronger than Super Saiyan Goku, but not movie Superman, emporerpants, why do you think Goku would win if he's slower and weaker and less durable??????? He doesn't have many strength feats, an I know everything about Dragonball Z from the beginning of the series to the end of the Freeza saga, thats why I didn't know about the ten ton incident.
All we know about USSJ is that it gives the person strength but it doesn't really show how much stronger the person gets at all. Somehow I dobut it gets them billions of times stronger.
And the only thing Gokou has over movie Superman is fighting speed...which isn't really going to help him at all if he can't hurt Superman at all. Gokou has to go super saiyan to lift ten tons which was past his limit in base form. While ssj3 isn't known it's limit I have a hard time thinking he's going to go from ten tons to lifting islands out of the ocean.
Goku could move faster than light before Super Saiyan, and it's right from the manga itself!!!!!!!!!!
DBZ Vo. 10, PG 136-141.
In order for some one to get within a safe distance of an explosion in between the end of a mass and the beginning of it's conversion into energy you would have to be moving at many times the speed of light.
All we know about USSJ is that it gives the person strength but it doesn't really show how much stronger the person gets at all. Somehow I dobut it gets them billions of times stronger.
Goku isn't billions of times weaker than comic Superman even at base in the Ginyu Saga, a billion is a big, big number.
And the only thing Gokou has over movie Superman is fighting speed...which isn't really going to help him at all if he can't hurt Superman at all. Gokou has to go super saiyan to lift ten tons which was past his limit in base form. While ssj3 isn't known it's limit I have a hard time thinking he's going to go from ten tons to lifting islands out of the ocean.
The speed of Goku's punch makes up for it's strength, and as I said before, the more you hit something the more it distorts, and if you keep hitting it before it recovers, than it will distort even more, and Goku doesn't always have to use his strength, he can use Chi blasts in between punches to avoid damage to his fist. But he wouldn't need to because Chi does more damage per size weight ratio the stronger it's user becomes.
Yet you're just ruling out all the stuff that proves they aren't light speed at all just because he was able to get away from an explosion?
Gokou at base can't lift 10 tons in Buu saga...in Freeza saga I highly doubt he's going to be able to lift as much as in the Buu Saga. Comic Superman can lift billions of tons. Yes he is billions of times weaker.
Superman has a bio-aura shield from the sun. Gokou isn't strong enough to penetrate it. And Gokou would have to charge a Kamehameha to do any real damage to movie Superman and that's even assuming he could hurt him with a kamehameha. What he did to Cell would be the only option he has..But that's assuming Superman just sits there and watched like Cell did.
Originally posted by Kento
Yet you're just ruling out all the stuff that proves they aren't light speed at all just because he was able to get away from an explosion?
What proves Goku at Super Saiyan can't move at lightspeed??????? How can you say he JUST got away from an explosion, read this again and again until a light clicks,
In order for some one to get within a safe distance of an explosion in between the end of a mass and the beginning of it's conversion into energy you would have to be moving at many times the speed of light.
Superman relies on his sight, Goku could use that against him to get a Kamehameha in the same way he did with Freeza.
Goku could use instant transmission to teleport right next to Superman at the last moment of his Kamehameha, making it impossible for Supes to dodge, which would kill him.
Also, where the heck does it say Superman is surrounded by a bio-arua, he is just invulnerable.
I could explain exactly how, form the Kamehameha somewhere hidden from Superman, and leave it there, lurer Superman to the Kamehameha and fire it when he's not looking. I know Superman can see through stuff, but only so far away.
Superman can hear Goku's cells dividing, he can smell a single person from miles a way while in the centre of a city. Superman can look across the universe with his vision. You can't hide from Superman in the same solar system without using magic.
And really with the element of suprise Batman could beat Goku, so lets not go into this. It's also completley against Goku's character.
Goku isn't billions of times weaker than comic Superman even at base in the Ginyu Saga, a billion is a big, big number.
No, your strength level is closer to Goku's than his is to Superman. Base Goku struggled with 40 tons. Superman struggles to move the planet Earth. Billions is being generous it's much more.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Superman can hear Goku's cells dividing, he can smell a single person from miles a way while in the centre of a city. Superman can look across the universe with his vision. You can't hide from Superman in the same solar system without using magic.And really with the element of suprise Batman could beat Goku, so lets not go into this. It's also completley against Goku's character.
That probably wouldn't work, which was why I edited it, Goku could use instant transmission to teleport right next to Superman at the last moment of his Kamehameha, making it impossible for Supes to dodge, which would leave him vulnerable to Goku, in which case Goku would kill him by beating him to death. Super Saiyan Goku in the Freeza saga had more physical strength than Super Saiyan in the Buu saga, because like I said before, they stopped caring about how strong they were.
Originally posted by Combat_GuruProof they can't move light speed....People see them fight in the Cell Saga, Mr. Satan sees Kid Buu and SSJ3 Gokou fight, people saw Goten and Trunks fighting, Gohan took like 5 minutes going all out at base when he was 18 to get to school from his house and Buu Saga base Gohan > Freeza Saga Super Saiyan Gokou in speed and everything, Gotenks took a nearly a minute to get to Fat Buu's house at Super Saiyan from wherever he was on Earth. He flew around the world couple dozen times before Piccolo caught up to him 29 minutes later after he stopped. Well according to him a couple dozen times. Gotenks > Gokou in general. Piccolo took 29 minutes to get to Gotenks who said he had a time to take a nap also and Buu Saga Piccolo > SSJ Freeza Saga Gokou. Takes the Z Warriors 5 minutes to get from Kami's Lookout to the Cell Games though they didn't all go full speed since they all arrived at once and the humans are much slower.
What proves Goku at Super Saiyan can't move at lightspeed??????? How can you say he JUST got away from an explosion, read this again and again until a light clicks,Superman relies on his sight, Goku could use that against him to get a Kamehameha in the same way he did with Freeza.
Goku could use instant transmission to teleport right next to Superman at the last moment of his Kamehameha, making it impossible for Supes to dodge, which would kill him.
Also, where the heck does it say Superman is surrounded by a bio-arua, he is just invulnerable.
Superman has more going than just his sight. And you say you know alot about Superman yet you don't even know that he has a bio-aura around him that protects him from stuff? It's one of the ways they explain his cape tearing but his skin tight clothes never getting burnt off or ripped up also along with most of his invulnerability. He's still extremely durable under it as shown when fighting Doomsday who also bypasses the field. Magic and Kryptonite penetrate it and sufficent strength will but Gokou hasn't got the strength to do so.
And if he stopped caring about strength he wouldn't have been weight training.
Originally posted by Kento
Proof they can't move light speed....People see them fight in the Cell Saga, Mr. Satan sees Kid Buu and SSJ3 Gokou fight, people saw Goten and Trunks fighting, Gohan took like 5 minutes going all out at base when he was 18 to get to school from his house and Buu Saga base Gohan > Freeza Saga Super Saiyan Gokou in speed and everything, Gotenks took a nearly a minute to get to Fat Buu's house at Super Saiyan from wherever he was on Earth. He flew around the world couple dozen times before Piccolo caught up to him 29 minutes later after he stopped. Well according to him a couple dozen times. Gotenks > Gokou in general. Piccolo took 29 minutes to get to Gotenks who said he had a time to take a nap also and Buu Saga Piccolo > SSJ Freeza Saga Gokou. Takes the Z Warriors 5 minutes to get from Kami's Lookout to the Cell Games though they didn't all go full speed since they all arrived at once and the humans are much slower.Superman has more going than just his sight. And you say you know alot about Superman yet you don't even know that he has a bio-aura around him that protects him from stuff? It's one of the ways they explain his cape tearing but his skin tight clothes never getting burnt off or ripped up also along with most of his invulnerability. He's still extremely durable under it as shown when fighting Doomsday who also bypasses the field. Magic and Kryptonite penetrate it and sufficent strength will but Gokou hasn't got the strength to do so.
And if he stopped caring about strength he wouldn't have been weight training.
Akira intended to end DB after the Freeza Saga, but if you want to use feats from that time line, Gotenks ripped a hole in space and time with his sonic breath alone, that was an intentional feat, every single retcon you mentioned was not intentional, every single feat I listed was intentional, you can't use those, sorry.
And Goku by far has enough strength to beat the crap out of Superman, and thats being generous, Superman does not have an aura in the movies, he got his Superman suit from krypton, which was thousands of years more advanced than Earth.