Superman vs Goku (Official Thread)

Started by Kento135 pages

Kento The last Hokage

Broli was sent to the Sun with a triple Kamehameha not Gokou's own. Gokou was also being beaten by Janemba or whatever his name is, the guy who can move his body parts through portals or at least the only guy I know of that can, though the fist weren't exactly moving faster than Gokou could react they were just coming from different directions. Not to mention that those movies aren't canon. They'd be like an elseworld. Broli would have had to have come during the Cell Saga, and Janemba isn't possible at all not even during the Buu Saga. Gotenks was there and ssj3 and Gokou was dead. Just like Trunks getting his sword from Tapion. It's definately not the way Future Trunks got his sword, and you never even see Manga Present Trunks with that sword. GT He has the sword but GT is just about as canon as the movies anyway. As for Dragon Fist...he'd actually have to hit Superman with it and he doesn't have the speed even if it would work.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
wasnt he stated to have light speed in the anime though?

Only time I remember stating light speed is Piccolo in the Dub. I know there is a manga translation out that Burta says he's faster than light but that's obviously a wrong translation as things after it prove that statement to be wrong.

DestinyGuy678 Senior Member

Originally posted by Soljer
😆.
Scans. 🙂.

I was talking about anime goku, read before posting please, but theyve never stated his speed to be anythin gother than light (even though it only was a couple of times)

still not saying he'd win, just saying he throw a couple of more punches before going down

Kento The last Hokage

In the actual Japanese version I don't even think light was ever used. Oh yea the only other thing I think was ever said to be light speed was IT but that's completely impossible because it's instant once he actually finds a source to lock onto

Creshosk Senior Member

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
I was right, you had no intention of apologizing for calling me a duchebag, and your still nothing but a flamer.

You're nothing but a troll. 🙂

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
I like Superman more than Goku,

Wow there's a standard lie to gain back credibility.

Originally posted by Combat_Guru
his 78' movie was better, and he's a greater iconic figure than anything in DBZ, and he's American, he just wouldn't win in a fight, oh yeah I'm really trolling aren't I? 😛

Yes, Yes you are. I consider lieing to be trolling. 🙂

Lord Feron Senior Member

Originally posted by Kento
Broli was sent to the Sun with a triple Kamehameha not Gokou's own. Gokou was also being beaten by Janemba or whatever his name is, the guy who can move his body parts through portals or at least the only guy I know of that can, though the fist weren't exactly moving faster than Gokou could react they were just coming from different directions. Not to mention that those movies aren't canon. They'd be like an elseworld. Broli would have had to have come during the Cell Saga, and Janemba isn't possible at all not even during the Buu Saga. Gotenks was there and ssj3 and Gokou was dead. Just like Trunks getting his sword from Tapion. It's definately not the way Future Trunks got his sword, and you never even see Manga Present Trunks with that sword. GT He has the sword but GT is just about as canon as the movies anyway. As for Dragon Fist...he'd actually have to hit Superman with it and he doesn't have the speed even if it would work.
Only time I remember stating light speed is Piccolo in the Dub. I know there is a manga translation out that Burta says he's faster than light but that's obviously a wrong translation as things after it prove that statement to be wrong.

Goku lent help to the other two. Goku is far stronger than both Gohan and the other saiyan put together. Fine lets disregard Janemba and Broli and all of GT just so superman can win. Like wtf is that! Thats like saying you know what Superman one million, superman PC, Superman Prime, and anything else superman can pull out of his butt to beat Goku also doesn't count. Liek how can you argue something and when told evidence say ohh no thats not allowed because it would beat Goku there for its canon. So whatever I believe maybe if goku didn't have his speed Supes may stand a chance just because Supes is known for his brute strength and durability; but then i realized Supes actually has no formal training of combat or advanced martial arts. He is just a brawler or atleast what i can tell from every fight he has been in. Goku would be to super man as Bruce Lee would be to a toddler with down syndrome. I don't know if i had to add this but as a child goku has beaten the best martail art master of the world and thats when he was what like 10 or something.

Kento The last Hokage

Erm...Gohan > Gokou. Sure Goten is weaker but Gohan is the superior one in the family. And um...what does Pre-Crisis, and Superman 1 million or Superman Prime have to do with anything. They aren't usable either. Those aren't Superman...well with maybe the exception of Superman Prime if you mean the Golden one and not emo version....But he's got no feats to say of so he's pointless to use. GT wasn't created by Akira, Janemba wasn't faster than Gokou he just attacked from different areas...After the inital surprise it would be easy to dodge if you're quick enough. And movie Gokou and GT Gokou would be exactly like Superman Prime, 1 Million, or Pre-Crisis. Unusable at all because they aren't canon. Well Superman Prime, and 1 Million are canon but they can't be used to judge Clark at all because they aren't Clark. They are a lot more powerful than Clark.

And Superman has been trained by the best fighters in the DC universe...and even if he's not as good a martial artist as Gokou he's got a whole lot more experience fighting stronger, and faster people. Gokou isn't going to win just because he can be said to be superior in martial arts.

Creshosk Senior Member

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Sorry I don't have much evidence due to no scanner.[/b[]/quote]Meaning it'll be yet another guy who can't back his claims...
[QUOTE=10346430]Originally posted by Lord Feron
[B]Unless your super fast like superman should be. You can't tell where the hell goku is.

People have trouble telling where wolverine is when he blitzes... That means Wolverine is as fast as Superman?

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I assume Superman the big shot he is can keep up with Goku. If anyone sees DB, DBZ, DBZ GT knows that only high level characters can actually know what goku is doing much less react to him. Goku can actually absorb spirit power. Meaning that he can actually take energy away from someone, but this is usually if the other chracter complies. Assume that Goku is bloodlusted beyond ethics and morale. He can focefully absorb power from any sentient being.

I'd ask for proof of this but you already said you won't have any...

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Im not sure if that would be the ideal weapon against supes but lets just say he doesn't do that because it might be stretching his powers.

Translation: He's never done it but I'll say anything to get goku a win. Retort: Superman has a power that instantly kills saiyans automatically that are within 8.5 million light years of him, Lets just say he doesn't do it because it might be a stretch of his powers.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
BTW anyone ever hear of the dragon punch? Sounds lame but its the end game weapon people. Nothing survives it and no one can replicate it. Its exactly what it is, the weapon only used once to destroy one of the strongest being in the the DB universe.

On a prone enemy, in the non-canon GT and it was a rather slow attack that eventually wound up with about the level of power of a nuke... Something that Superman's punches can replicate a lot quicker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OztFeTtaON4

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Goku power potential is incalculable.

also unquantifiable and therefore both meaningless and inadmissible. As we don't battle as far as "potential" goes, but by actual existing incarnations of characters in given continuitys.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Machines have tried (i.e. robotic freeza and his advanceed tech) They simply over loaded. This was at the time when he was relatively weak in DBZ. I mean in DBZ GT SSJ4 lol will make that old DBZ version of Goku laughable at best.

As Does comic book PC Superman... but as both ssj4 and pc superman are not canon, neither are admissible as evidence.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
How about his strength you say? Easily shrugged off the devil when fighting through hell and heaven to get back to the living. Through sheer might alone he is able to destroy mountains and levitate boulders.

Mountains and boulders you say?! That's easily more impressive than planets and black holes.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
When charging up his energy beings who were able to detect energy signatures was able to sense his output throughout the universe.
He actually came back from the dead a couple times through his own will and not some magical wish dragon.

Not in canon he never did.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
A kame wave can send an opponent into another planet or star as he has done with one Broli. He actually hit him with a energy blast that it went from earth to the sun in a contunious stream. I mean it would be unwise for him to send supes into the sun but lets just say into a star and the star explodes and thats gonna hurt a bit.

THe power of the suneater hurt a bit back in 91... but arguing old showings of superman would be like me talking about a showing of Goku where his kamehame ha only wrecked a car. Also I don't recal that happening in the manga...

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I don't think superman can even hit GOku,

Yeah, going multples of light speed is too slow to hit one who can't go light speed.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
he has fought against people who can be everywhere at once by cutting holes in the dimension and punch and kick and blast goku at once and in different directions but Goku was able to play his game and beat him.

By sending an attack through a portal, not due to his speed. also wasn't canon.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
So sorry folks speedblitz would be at best an amusing effort.

Sure because multiples of lightspeed would be too slow to hit someone whom hasn't gone light speed.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
HV and Cold breathe you say? He was hit with the a fire demons most powerful shot and felt a small tingling sensation. Cold Breath, maybe you can catch him if he is sleeping.

I'd like for you to prove the heat of the demon's breath is on par with a sun let alone with Superman's being immesurable.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
A blood lusted Goku has never been witnessed. Mild mannered Goku has never lost;

Which explains why he's died twice.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
if Goku started getting nasty and evil there is not much Superman can do.

Except laugh at goku's feeble attacks?

Poetic I'll give your writing that. But its also illogical, rule violating and innaccurately misleading.

Creshosk Senior Member

Hmm... Lord Feron is going to turn out to be a troll. In the "Is goku a ripoff of superman he claimed that Gladiator(1977) predated Superman(1938).

As there is an obvious lack of knowledge of the competitors any thing he says about Superman is now suspect.

emporerpants Senior Member

it seems most of the dbz supporters turn out to be trolls. its clear to any rational person that supes utterly destroys goku.

Lord Feron Senior Member

I know some of superman but i dare no tknow as mucha s you. If i did I would be able to better ague in this thread I admit that. You have vast knowledge of super man and his apparent feats which is great. If you ever seen some posts I did in Versus thread, I am no ranting troll who argues with out meaning.
Gohan not superior one in the fam potential taken away in buu saga to create buu, if I did have evidence that you approve to you i would but i apologize for nothing.
Superman had to use great force to do planetary movement or bound a plant enough to break it and black hole stuff, it was simply emanating power from Goku that seems to do these things not even conscious effort.
I didn't say he didn't die I just said he hasn't lost, is fusion allowed or is that canon to?,
I'm new and what are the rules and how did I violate them (very serious and in no way be facetious)
To be at mutiple places at once is that not like speed because during combat I believe they would be used just the same way in some rare cases speed can be used differently but i don't think superman has the capability.
I can't believe that since they didn't say "light speed" that goku's speed as rediculous as it is can't match super man because he in his comics "is faster that thought" or something (then how can he thing to move unless his thought process is faster then everyone else, but of course that must be assumed =p) there has been matches the people couldnb't keep track of and simple seemed as if nothing was happening is that not great or near light speed? I will amuse you and say Okay he doesn't have lightspeed but just because someone is slightly faster does not mean they can't react to someone or dodge or block someone.
I'm not saying martial arts alone would save Goku im saying that combined with his speed strength and powers he will not be defeated.
Heat of a demon and the heat of the sun can that not be the same seems to be relative on who thinks what of what.
I honetly don't think DC's finest martial artest can comapre to DB martial artist for it is what DB is known for but i doubt that would sway your mind.
Sorry about the Gladiator thing and Superman dates it was discussed in the versus forum and apparently someone got it mixed up and i believed him, I give you that one. Again you may say im blaming someone us for my mistakes but I just can't find the thread.
I'm not inaccurate and misleading! Have I lied are implied anyting that Goku hasent really done? I may not be as specific as I would like but im not trying to mislead anyone.
I don't ague about things i don't know about. I may know less then others but I do what I can, as lacking as it may seem. To ague in a superman forum on how superman will lose is like me trying to stop a avalanche from falling, it aint gonna happen. I will still amuse this thread tho to learn. But i have to call it a night boys and girls, good stuff so far

Creshosk Senior Member

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I know some of superman but i dare no tknow as mucha s you. If i did I would be able to better ague in this thread I admit that. You have vast knowledge of super man and his apparent feats which is great. If you ever seen some posts I did in Versus thread, I am no ranting troll who argues with out meaning.

You argue without knowledge. You argue without knowledge. Yet you also calim to argue with meaning? What meaning do you insist upon that lacks knowledge of the opposition and without evidence to support your side's claims?

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Gohan not superior one in the fam potential taken away in buu saga to create buu, if I did have evidence that you approve to you i would but i apologize for nothing.
Superman had to use great force to do planetary movement or bound a plant enough to break it and black hole stuff, it was simply emanating power from Goku that seems to do these things not even conscious effort.

Except in the non-canon filler incident of pushing the hill apart, not even a mountain, he did so with great effort. Which is more impressive, pushing a hill apart with great effort or pushing a planet apart with great effort. It's clear that based on this that the non-canon Goku was much weaker than Superman at the time of the event.

Do you deny this?

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I didn't say he didn't die I just said he hasn't lost, is fusion allowed or is that canon to?,

He died... how is that a win when he himself failed to beat Cell? He was killed then by what was claimed to be a planetary destroyer. How is that not a loss?

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I'm new and what are the rules and how did I violate them (very serious and in no way be facetious)

You've failed to be cleverly amusing in tone in any of your posts. Typical tactics of ignoring what is and is not admissible as evidence in this debate.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
To be at mutiple places at once is that not like speed because during combat I believe they would be used just the same way in some rare cases speed can be used differently but i don't think superman has the capability.

Neither Goku nor Superman have the ability to use portals the way that janemba did. Spot a character whom can use portals would be considered fast simply because he uses portals, and thus a challenge to Superman?

Your logic is lacking. Teleportation does not equal movement speed.

You're the new recruit sent over from that other place because those there consider you to be good? Or do yourself lacking in knowledge and evidence consider yourself to be up to the challanenge set down here: Prove your case yusing valid evidence.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I can't believe that since they didn't say "light speed" that goku's speed as rediculous as it is can't match super man

Superman has proven to be light speed. Ridiculous speed is insufficient as There are plenty of characters that have "ridiculous speed". Such as Quicksilver whom can run in excess to any human. Wolverine can move faster than the human eye can detect. Neith is sufficient to tag Superman.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
because he in his comics "is faster that thought" or something (then how can he thing to move unless his thought process is faster then everyone else, but of course that must be assumed =p) there has been matches the people couldnb't keep track of and simple seemed as if nothing was happening is that not great or near light speed?

WOlverine on at least three occasions moved faster than the trained soldiers could track, even when they were looking right at him. He was not moving anywhere near lightspeed. But accomplished what you just spoke of.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I will amuse you and say Okay he doesn't have lightspeed but just because someone is slightly faster does not mean they can't react to someone or dodge or block someone.

You don't even get "slightly faster" without proving their speed.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I'm not saying martial arts alone would save Goku im saying that combined with his speed strength and powers he will not be defeated.

Yet you have no quantifiable feats that prove he is beyond that which is shown in the manga.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Heat of a demon and the heat of the sun can that not be the same seems to be relative on who thinks what of what.

We have an exact mesurement of the heat of the sun. It's nobodies opinion of how hot the sun is. Now, prove that the demon's heat in the noncanon occurance that you speak of is at least as hot as the sun. Because we have on panel evidence of Scientists saying that Superman's heat vision is hotter than can be meassured, and we can measure the heat of the sun.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I honetly don't think DC's finest martial artest can comapre to DB martial artist for it is what DB is known for but i doubt that would sway your mind.

Especially without evidence to prove your claims.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Sorry about the Gladiator thing and Superman dates it was discussed in the versus forum and apparently someone got it mixed up and i believed him, I give you that one. Again you may say im blaming someone us for my mistakes but I just can't find the thread.
I'm not inaccurate and misleading!

Repeating someone else's mistake does not mean that you did not make the mistake. You were and still are inaccurate. As such your statments of fact are misleading.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Have I lied are implied anyting that Goku hasent really done?

Besides using non-canon material or your attempt to make the dragon punch seem like a end all attack?

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I may not be as specific as I would like but im not trying to mislead anyone.

You are trying to convince people of a flase position without evidence nor knowledge. How are you NOT trying to mislead people?

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I don't ague about things i don't know about.

Like you are in this thread? You lack knowledge of Superman, yet you argue in this thread against him. This can now be listed under evidence of you having lied. And as you have lied you have tried to mislead people. AS such your claims of not attempting are likewise lies.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I may know less then others but I do what I can, as lacking as it may seem.

Like in the other thread? Gladiator predating Superman? You do indeed argue things you don't know about.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
To ague in a superman forum on how superman will lose is like me trying to stop a avalanche from falling, it aint gonna happen. I will still amuse this thread tho to learn. But i have to call it a night boys and girls, good stuff so far

Well, as long as your intent is to learn I suppose that I will retract my calling you a troll.

Kento The last Hokage

Gohan's potential was never taken away. And when his Mystic Ability came in at the end of the Buu Saga he surpassed SSJ3 Gokou and Gotenks. Gohan has always been more powerful than his father with the exception of the Freeza saga.

Fusion is canon...but that wouldn't be Gokou fighting. And it still wouldn't make him powerful enough anyway. Course if you want to bring in a second person to help Gokou then Superman has a whole team also to pick from that could take out Gokou also

Last...plenty of things mostly during the last saga prove that Gokou isn't light speed at all. They don't have to say it.

Endless Mike Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Sorry I don't have much evidence due to no scanner. Unless your super fast like superman should be. You can't tell where the hell goku is. I assume Superman the big shot he is can keep up with Goku. If anyone sees DB, DBZ, DBZ GT knows that only high level characters can actually know what goku is doing much less react to him.

There are a lot more where those came from

Goku can actually absorb spirit power. Meaning that he can actually take energy away from someone, but this is usually if the other chracter complies. Assume that Goku is bloodlusted beyond ethics and morale. He can focefully absorb power from any sentient being. Im not sure if that would be the ideal weapon against supes but lets just say he doesn't do that because it might be stretching his powers.

Completely and utterly false.

DBZ characters can transfer their ki to others, but they can't just steal ki from people without their consent. The only ones who can do that are androids 19 and 20, and then only if they touch them with those devices on their hands. Not to mention Superman isn't even powered by ki so it's irrelevant.

BTW anyone ever hear of the dragon punch? Sounds lame but its the end game weapon people.

It's also non-canon, having only appeared in GT and movie 13.

Nothing survives it and no one can replicate it. Its exactly what it is, the weapon only used once to destroy one of the strongest being in the the DB universe.

No-limits fallacy. Not to mention blatantly false even in the non-canon situations it was used in - if no one could survive it then why did he have to wait for 18 to distract Super 17 to use it instead of just using it right away?

Goku power potential is incalculable. Machines have tried (i.e. robotic freeza and his advanceed tech) They simply over loaded. This was at the time when he was relatively weak in DBZ.

Yet Babidi's ki reading tech could do it just fine.... this isn't even relevant anyway.

I mean in DBZ GT SSJ4 lol will make that old DBZ version of Goku laughable at best.

Not only is GT non-canon, but SSJ4 has practically no feats that put it above SSJ3.

How about his strength you say? Easily shrugged off the devil when fighting through hell and heaven to get back to the living.

Um, what? I've read the entire manga multiple times and I don't recall that part....

Through sheer might alone he is able to destroy mountains and levitate boulders.

I wasn't aware that telekinesis counted as "pure might alone". You need to learn to differentiate between feats accomplished with physical strength and feats accomplished with ki effects.

When charging up his energy beings who were able to detect energy signatures was able to sense his output throughout the universe.

And your point is? The Kaioshins have the best sensory abilities in the DBU. It's not exactly a quantifiable feat, either.

He actually came back from the dead a couple times through his own will and not some magical wish dragon.

Utter and blatant lie. He was killed by Picollo when they were fighting Raditz and he was wished back. Then he was killed when Cell self-destructed and he was granted a one-day pass by King Enma (dead people can only come back for one day using this method, and only once). Then Old Kaioshin gave up his own life to allow him to come back again. He can't just resurrect at will.

A kame wave can send an opponent into another planet or star as he has done with one Broli. He actually hit him with a energy blast that it went from earth to the sun in a contunious stream.

Non-canon

I mean it would be unwise for him to send supes into the sun but lets just say into a star and the star explodes and thats gonna hurt a bit.

There are so many problems with this argument that I don't even know where to start, so I'll try to list them.

1. The movies are non-canon

2. Even in the non-canon movie, the sun didn't explode when they were blasted to it. No DBZ character has ever destroyed a star.

3. In order to have a chance of hurting Superman, it would have to be a red star. Goku does not know Superman is vulnerable to red stars, he does not know where the closest one is, the closest one is much, much further away from the sun (light-years) which the beam has never shown the power to reach, even in the non-canon material, and, to top it all off, Superman has survived exploding stars multiple times.

I don't think superman can even hit GOku, he has fought against people who can be everywhere at once by cutting holes in the dimension and punch and kick and blast goku at once and in different directions but Goku was able to play his game and beat him.

Um, what? Stop making stuff up.

So sorry folks speedblitz would be at best an amusing effort.

Except Superman has demonstrated movement and reaction speed many orders of magnitude faster than any DBZ character.

HV and Cold breathe you say? He was hit with the a fire demons most powerful shot and felt a small tingling sensation.

Not exactly sure what incident you're referring to, but do you have evidence that this attack was hotter than the core of the sun, capable of drilling through a planet, and strong enough to power engines that can move a planet larger than earth across the solar system?

Cold Breath, maybe you can catch him if he is sleeping.

Despite the fact he's hit faster people than Goku with it....

A blood lusted Goku has never been witnessed.

I'd say he was pretty bloodlusted against Frieza when he killed Krillin.

Mild mannered Goku has never lost

Okay, you've just proven you have no idea what you're talking about.

Short list of Goku's losses (just off the top of my head):

1. Jackie Chun (Master Roshi in disguise)
2. Tao Paipai (first fight)
3. Tien
4. Picollo Daimao (first fight)
5. Raditz
6. Cell
7. SSJ2 Vegeta
8. Super Buu

And this isn't even counting all of the times that he only won because his friends helped him out.

if Goku started getting nasty and evil there is not much Superman can do.

Except Superman's feats and powers are far above anything Goku has ever demonstrated ever. Even if your premise was correct, your logic would still be flawed. If an ant had never lost a fight, but had only fought other ants, does that mean it would beat a tank?

was talking about anime goku, read before posting please, but theyve never stated his speed to be anythin gother than light (even though it only was a couple of times)
still not saying he'd win, just saying he throw a couple of more punches before going down

The only two references to lightspeed in the dub anime that I recall were the infamous Picollo error (in the original it just says he was very fast), and when it said that IT was lightspeed (even though it's actually supposed to be instant in the original). The dub anime isn't even self-consistent: If Raditz was faster than light all the way back then, then why would instant transmission being lightspeed be impressive?

Endless Mike Sqirrel Girl fanboy

. Goku is far stronger than both Gohan and the other saiyan put together

More proof you don't know what you're talking about. Mystic Gohan after getting his powerup is stronger than Goku, and is in fact the strongest non-fused character in the series.

ine lets disregard Janemba and Broli and all of GT just so superman can win. Like wtf is that!

It's called canon. Those stories are not part of the original work and do not fit anywhere in the timeline, and they were also not created by Akira Toriyama, nor declared to be canon by him. You might as well say fanfiction is canon.

Thats like saying you know what Superman one million, superman PC, Superman Prime, and anything else superman can pull out of his butt to beat Goku also doesn't count.

Those versions of Superman are also not canon to the current version, but he doesn't need them to beat Goku.

Liek how can you argue something and when told evidence say ohh no thats not allowed because it would beat Goku there for its canon.

It's not allowed because it is not canon. The fact that you have to rely on unofficial, contradictory stories to try to prove your point just means that you know the real Goku can't win.

So whatever I believe maybe if goku didn't have his speed Supes may stand a chance just because Supes is known for his brute strength and durability; but then i realized Supes actually has no formal training of combat or advanced martial arts. He is just a brawler or atleast what i can tell from every fight he has been in.

Another lie. Superman has had 1000 years of training in Valhalla, he has been instructed in martial arts by many people, including Batman (one of the best martial artists in the DCU), and Mongul. He is so skilled that he can beat groups of armed thugs even when he doesn't have his powers.

Goku would be to super man as Bruce Lee would be to a toddler with down syndrome. I don't know if i had to add this but as a child goku has beaten the best martail art master of the world and thats when he was what like 10 or something.

Actually he lost, and he was 14. Thanks for proving you know absolutely nothing about both Goku and Superman.

Superman had to use great force to do planetary movement or bound a plant enough to break it and black hole stuff, it was simply emanating power from Goku that seems to do these things not even conscious effort.

When has Goku ever moved or broken a planet? When has he ever even encountered a black hole? Stop lying.

I didn't say he didn't die I just said he hasn't lost, is fusion allowed or is that canon to?,

Of course fusion is a canon technique, but since this match is Superman vs. Goku, and not Superman vs. Goku fused with someone else, you can't use it (unless you want to allow Superman to have allies too, and trust me, you don't want that.)

I'm new and what are the rules and how did I violate them (very serious and in no way be facetious)

Creshosk is a bit overzealous with the report button, but basically you're using non-canon material to back up your argument, and that's your main problem.

To be at mutiple places at once is that not like speed because during combat I believe they would be used just the same way in some rare cases speed can be used differently but i don't think superman has the capability.

They are not in multiple places at once. That's just an artistic technique used to show speed. Manga authors completely abuse this, for example, characters in Rorouni Kenshin (who are not much faster than real - life humans) leave afterimages all the time. It happens in American comics as well.

Look at Spider-man here:

http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=d6sp.gif

In-universe, it can also be described as the ability of an object to move faster than the eye can percieve (normal objects IRL can do this - wave your hand in front of your computer screen for example).

I can't believe that since they didn't say "light speed" that goku's speed as rediculous as it is can't match super man because he in his comics "is faster that thought" or something (then how can he thing to move unless his thought process is faster then everyone else, but of course that must be assumed =p)

Goku's speed can't match Superman's because Superman has demonstrated quantifiable speed feats greater than anything Goku has ever done. Simple.

there has been matches the people couldnb't keep track of and simple seemed as if nothing was happening is that not great or near light speed?

No, it is not. I don't think you realize just how fast lightspeed it. Light can circle the earth over 7 times in one second. Simply moving faster than the eye can see is nowhere near lightspeed. In fact, under the right conditions, a human - sized object can become invisible if it moves at only 200 miles per hour.

I will amuse you and say Okay he doesn't have lightspeed but just because someone is slightly faster does not mean they can't react to someone or dodge or block someone.

We don't have to prove he isn't lightspeed, you have to prove he is. And you haven't.

I'm not saying martial arts alone would save Goku im saying that combined with his speed strength and powers he will not be defeated.
Heat of a demon and the heat of the sun can that not be the same seems to be relative on who thinks what of what.

Except the heat of the sun is quantifiable. "The heat of a demon" is not (and I'm not even sure what demon you're talking about, it was probably a filler episode or something).

I honetly don't think DC's finest martial artest can comapre to DB martial artist for it is what DB is known for but i doubt that would sway your mind.

DC's finest martial artist is Karate Kid, who has mastered every form of martial arts known anywhere in the universe in the 31st century, and is so proficient with them that he can defeat people who move faster than light and can break things that people who move planets can't, despite the fact that he is physically a normal human.

Have I lied are implied anyting that Goku hasent really done?

Yes, and I've pointed it out.

I don't ague about things i don't know about. I may know less then others but I do what I can, as lacking as it may seem. To ague in a superman forum on how superman will lose is like me trying to stop a avalanche from falling, it aint gonna happen

And here comes the appeal to motive fallacy. Superman doesn't win this fight because it's a Superman forum. He wins this fight because the evidence says he does. There are plenty of people that could beat Superman, and the debators in this forum would admit that. Goku just isn't one of them.

Endless Mike Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Neither Goku nor Superman have the ability to use portals the way that janemba did. Spot a character whom can use portals would be considered fast simply because he uses portals, and thus a challenge to Superman?

I just thought of something: Spider-man has a villain (The Spot) who fights like this. So since Spider-man can react to him and beat him, I guess that makes Spider-man faster than Superman, according to Lord Feron's logic

Lord Feron Senior Member

Am i suppose to defend myself from what i'm counting to be 50 or some comments. Hmmmm... I try my best.... lets do the first come first serve rule.
- The knowledge I have on superman is absolute nor is more knowledge of Goku absolute but based on the information I have on both I suspect that Goku is can win. I do not have time to gather the infromation to poke holes in superman's history and decide what is canon and non-canon and what is amissable and what is not. In that aspect you do seem to have the upper hand.
- Goku was powering up and the blast of powering up not actually touching anything was push away boulder and break hills/mountains. I do agree in that less powerful state superman would beat him.
- Cell did beat Goku in the first encounter, but i was talking about later in the time line where he was able to toy with cell and Freeza with ease in the otherworld.
- "Typical tactics of ignoring what is and is not admissible as evidence in this debate. " Well sorry I assume I was following directions but it seems that I must extremely specifics for you guys are no nosense type people. I will try better.
- "Teleportation does not equal movement speed." I already Agreed on that i was saying that in combat being at multiple places at once would be used the simarily tactically in battle as great speed would be used. If superman did face a enemy that can go blow to blow with him but he was able to manipulate portals like Janeba, yes Supes would be in trouble.
-"You're the new recruit sent over from that other place because those there consider you to be good? Or do yourself lacking in knowledge and evidence consider yourself to be up to the challanenge set down here: Prove your case yusing valid evidence."
You speak as tho because I am new my words meaning nothing and matter less; I believe that despite seniority everyone should have a chance to argue their point and be listened. I don't consider myself to be "good" I just like to have fun. Sent over from where? I came here because I respect superman and goku and believe that goku could win. Back to the debate at hand.
- Goku is not a human or a mutant but alien like Supes, he is the SS the best warrior the universe has to offer not my own opinion of Goku its just whats stated in the comics.
- Goku had whole fights that no human or mutant no matter how much training they had could see. Almost all of goku fights as adult is beyond visually seeing for average being. Why do you insist on comparing Wolverine to Goku???
- Can Goku speed be denied? If I can't prove his speed can it be disproved that he can't be faster then superman or can someone just say because we can prove superman speed and can't prove goku speed therefor it must be safe to assume Supes speed > Goku speed due to evidence from one side and not both. This also goes for the sun heat demon thing. Yeah, i know we can measuer the heat of the sun but i'm saying we can't measure the heat of a demon fire in GT but wait GT doesn't count right??? Anyway I know the HV from supes is hotter then the sun i'm trying to compare it to the heat of a demon and i'm saying thats tough to argue because as far as I know scientists have not measured demon firepower.
- Maybe you take my words to the letter, and maybe I should be more exact. I know of superman, and I know some of his accomplishments, I may not have read all his comics, but i know enough to make judgement; you may disagree. I mean if I do not know everything about both sides should i just keep my opinions to myself because someone who know more than me but not necessarily better than me wants to prove to me that i'm a liar, "a troll, someone lacking obvious knowledge" It is true what I say I do genuinly want to know much of superman and this seems to be the place because you guys don't seem to be mindless fanboys and I will continue this conversation as it is reasonable.
- back to the lightspeed stuff if a person shoots a energy beam which I can assume goes as fast as light because it acts much like light then Goku should always be hit with energy attacks unless you can argue Goku can dodge energy attacks because he can anticipate his enemies moves. Then he should be able to anticipate Superman's attacks at light speed.
- Are you showing images of Mr. Satan I wasent talking about him i meant like the god of the underworld but forget about him Goku has surpassed him and so ahve others so lets cut that out.
- The image whey the beam went through goku he wasent even SS1
- I do apprciate you images but I'm running out of time to answer everything
- Ki is life essece of sorts and every sentient beings have it, and some in different amounts obviously. I was extrapolating the capabilities of what Goku can might be able to do. You disagree, it was a theory that i was presenting and I agree that there never evidence that goku forceably drained life energ.
- teh Dragon punch usage is the same reason why superman doesn't cheapen himself but just speedblitzing everyone, throw people into the sun, and any other end game moves because its not the way comics work. If heros used such tactics alot it would make it boring and less dramatic.
- I was gonan say something abolut bambidi ki reading but its apparently not relevent.
- What with the snake road and stuff i mean seems liek alot of trouble to get back to the living if people could just wish him back simple. He had to earn coming back. I never said he didn't get resurrected and if i made it seem he can just come back to life, it was not what i meant.
- If SSJ 3 is no different then SS4 then why make it?
- "Actually he lost, and he was 14. Thanks for proving you know absolutely nothing about both Goku and Superman." Sorry for the age difference and does this mean Goku is not good at martial arts fighting? Does I was wrong i'm a lair sorry if I got mixed but sorry won't be enough. Has Goku never won a tournament in his childhood?
- The devil the big red guy, gatekeeper of life and death couldn't stop him from coming back to life, there was no actual fight.
- Why do you insist that Goku is a snail compared to Supes. Even without his speed can't goku simply teleport away from the cold breath and if for some reason does get caught can't he just treleprt of or break free with his omni direction ki force.
- I'm not making crap up and read the other posts.
- I have to make sure im not repeating myself my time is running out.
-Endless you seem to be misunderstanding me... and twisting my words to make it so if everyting is not 100% true and correct it is 100% false and in correct.
- Don't bring in Karate KId, i'm sure he is fantastic and all but i don't know anything beyond what I saw in the movies with Ralph lol but seriously idk who he is. <-- USe this to ague and say "Lord feron dosent know the kate kid and in relation does not know superman in relation does not know DC there fore he is a foolish troll that lies about everything." LIke good lord freaking relax!
- In the end did he not beat everyone of the characters ?
- your ant and tank comparison is silly because that is opinionated
- Was raditz that fast? I didn't think he was, seemed too low level.
- Are you say mystic gohan is stronger than any SSJ level of Goku?
- Pleaase read, I didn't say goku broke planets or held Black holes I was refering to Supes in that instant.
- Keep calling me names and i might give one sugar =D
- IT is exactly what is is instant, is instant faster then laightspeed? I am arguing this because you want to.
- "And here comes the appeal to motive fallacy" you assume that what I said is some kind of last resort and me giving up and making a poor excuse for myself. you twists my words and try to create some sophistical image of me. I was pointing out I will have lots of resistence in this forum but it is to be expected.
- Idk who the spot is therefore I won't say anything but i take your word for it. Spiderman has spider sense which can precog his enemies attempts to hurt him. This gives him a considerable advantage and now to assume i think spider man moves faster then superman speed would be a effort to belittle me which i do not appreciate.
- I tried to make my tone as civil as possible I hope you gentlemen do the same.
I got to stop this for now I might come back on later but i really need to do some work. peace

Priest Senior Member

yea, I'm gonna read all that when its posted like that...

Kento The last Hokage

Originally posted by Lord Feron
- "Teleportation does not equal movement speed." I already Agreed on that i was saying that in combat being at multiple places at once would be used the simarily tactically in battle as great speed would be used. If superman did face a enemy that can go blow to blow with him but he was able to manipulate portals like Janeba, yes Supes would be in trouble.
- Can Goku speed be denied? If I can't prove his speed can it be disproved that he can't be faster then superman or can someone just say because we can prove superman speed and can't prove goku speed therefor it must be safe to assume Supes speed > Goku speed due to evidence from one side and not both.
- back to the lightspeed stuff if a person shoots a energy beam which I can assume goes as fast as light because it acts much like light then Goku should always be hit with energy attacks unless you can argue Goku can dodge energy attacks because he can anticipate his enemies moves. Then he should be able to anticipate Superman's attacks at light speed.
- What with the snake road and stuff i mean seems liek alot of trouble to get back to the living if people could just wish him back simple. He had to earn coming back. I never said he didn't get resurrected and if i made it seem he can just come back to life, it was not what i meant.
- Why do you insist that Goku is a snail compared to Supes. Even without his speed can't goku simply teleport away from the cold breath and if for some reason does get caught can't he just treleprt of or break free with his omni direction ki force.
- In the end did he not beat everyone of the characters ?
- Are you say mystic gohan is stronger than any SSJ level of Goku?

Gokou had to fuse with Vegeta to become Gogeta to defeat Janemba. Gokou wasn't exactly having it easy on him against Janemba. Superman would only be in trouble if the person was as fast as him.

Gokou's speed can be proven without a doubt that he's not light speed. Gotenks is more powerful and him showing off flying as fast as he can wasn't close to light speed.

If the beams can go light speed they wouldn't be seen by regular people watching them. Vegeta wouldn't be able to fire off his rapid fire blasts with the blasts not hitting his target before he's shooting off another.

He went thru Snakeway to train for Vegeta. He didn't have to do that to return.

Um Gokou needs a ki source and time to lock onto one. Gokou isn't going to be using IT instantly against an opponent that has nearly no ki to speak of.

Gokou hasn't beaten every character....nearly all the main villains of DBZ were beaten by somebody else or Gokou had help and lots of it.

Mystic Gohan is superior to any level of Gokou.

Lord Feron Senior Member

he read some 📖

Lord Feron Senior Member

Linch time lets see what we have? Sorry I try and space it out a bit more next time.

No he wasent having a good time with jenambe.

- Are you talking about goku's flight speed? Becaus esupes prolly beats him in taht. Can't IT compensate for his lack in speed? use it to be where superman doesn't expect him to be and hit him with a blast. I think Goku was able to charge an attack and IT somehwere near (maybe behind him) the enemy and let the blast go without giving the enemy enuf time to react.

- I agree with you and how you explained IT but i'm assume Ki is life source taht all beings have and that Superman and enourmous amounts of it. He may not manifest it in energy projection like most DBZ chars but he displays it in his strength, willpower, flight and all his powers.

- Snakeway was in heaven or something or like between heaven and hell because I know hell was right below the snakeway and the snakeway was in the afterworld and he came back using that path no?

- I agree that Goku has lots of help from people that just seems to be the writing style. I think if Goku stood alone he would have the ability to fight off supes.

I think everyone might like to read what im about to write. I reading into Mr. Akira Y and his views on DBZGT. Interesting fact I learned / slash startling revelation. I always believed that it was a legitimate successor to DBZ and your words were rubbish.

A DBZ level Goku may not have the ability to defeat Superman. I'm not waving the white flag but I think this is a most reasonable conclusion. This will be the first and last thread that I would ever post so much in one sitting lol.
I like your posts "creshock", "endless mike", "kento" and thats the order from love to less love. The posting was fun. You guys def know your stuff. I recommend you guys to go to the vs forum; you would have a blast. I also do reccommend some reading like the Full Potential Ice-Man VS Superman. Very interesting stuff. K peace guys hope to see ya around 🤣