Originally posted by Starscream MOf course you do...
I see a writer taking a what-if scenario with some creative flair...
Originally posted by Starscream MBut it was still Punisher killing all the other characters in marvel, regardless of if he wanted it canon or not.
it wasn't as if he was making Punisher uber in canon marvel. Ennis gets too much flack on kmc.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Jinzin, so you admit that despite your fervent belief that Ennis has stated it in some interview. There is in fact, no such interview. Great. That's all I needed to hear. B*tch fit, what? You say that Ennis hates superheroes so much that he admitted it in an interview. he never did. And he doesn't mind writing Wolverine flipkicking Spidey in the nuts or Daredevil putting Wolverine down with a throat jab. Your main reasoning in downplaying the validity of that feat was half couched in some mythical Ennis interview which you now admit, does not exist.
🤨
I didn't say that ANYWHERE... Now you've gone past innaccurate assumptions and straight into delusional conclusions.
The interview exists, a link for it was posted here.. 4 years ago. I simply don't see at what point the motivations for Ennis' writing needs to be questioned to justify me looking for up to hours on the internet to prove his bias is influenced by more than common sense and consistent character representation, especially when many unrelated people have arrived to the same conclusions he admitted to anyways.
I need to prove that the guy who wrote Pun kills the MU is bias? No....
So I'll say it again, you can conclude what you like about Ennis... But it's still PIS.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
There's a difference between PIS and "IDLI, IDH" (I don't like it, it didn't happen). It's on-panel and it works.
The thing about DD's feat? It doesn't work. It's against a tidal wave of evidence to the contrary and that's just the thing. The difference betweenn PIS and IDLI IDH is consistency. There's no such consistency that exists with Logan.. Even with a weaker healing factor, while poisioned he stood up to more nerve shots from Shingen than DD hit him with. As stated before, that feat is PIS in it's own arc nevermind his whole career.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That has nothing to do with what I said. Maybe it wasn't clear. Daredevil was distracted by the revelation that Wolverine was not attackign some innocent woman but a new Typhoid Mary right before the panel where Wolverine gets him in the full nelson.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0DD wasn't distracted.. and no Wolveirne was Garth Ennised... much worse.
In Ennis story, Wolverine was going into a berserker rage and was slashing at Daredevil, even destroying his billy club. Daredevil was distracted in the former, Wolverine was not distracted in the latter.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Where he eats part of his own arm to sustanance before passing out... 😕
What full page? What are you referring to?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0I thought it was stated on their website for the story writeup. In any case it doesn't matter too much... I'll state it again for you... If his HF was taxed at that point even if it was only days before the Cap fight, it still wasn't running at 100% effeciency.
I've read every single page from Wolverine #36-40 and Wovlerine: Origins #1-5, including the damn intros. What are you referring to? Nowhere does it state that Wolverine is going non-stop without eating or resting. That only happens between his tracking down of Silver Samurai up until his trek into Canada. Afterwards, you see him on-panel with fresh clothes several times, waiting in hideouts and boarding trains, etc. If you have a scan of some page where Daniel Way says he never rests, by all means, post it. Or at least give me a damn issue number so I track down what you're referencing. I have all the issues with me. By all means. Put up or shut up.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So what incident are you referring to where Wolverine heals from being incinerated in three minutes that Daniel Way wrote?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0coming from the guy who drivles on about "scan spankings" 🙄
Please masturbate on your own time.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0No I cited the interview to SUPPORT the fact that Ennis isn't a good comic writer when it comes to guest appearances. I debunked the feats using.. what is it? Oh yes, "On-panel" evidence.
All I've done is read the comics from where you base your convoluted theories and found your assertions laughable. You cite non-existent interviews to debunk on-panel feats. And when it gets pointed out, you throw a hissy fit. You go ahead and cling to your Wolverine didn't eat or rest between 'House of M' and his fight against Cap myth all you want. It's garbage. And I was sorely disappointed by your inane use of hyperbole when I found out.
There's no use of hyporbole whatsoever. Wolverine had his heart apparently cut in half, he hadn't eaten or rested longer than he could even remember which coould therefore very well include time during HOM which makes since considering he was on the run nearly the entire run of that book. He had to eat his own arm to sustain himself. Even if he stopped to eat or rest... {a notion which by the very nature of the story is questionable ("get me across the Atlantic in a hurry" "we don't have much time" "Every minute we've given Wolverine is another minute to plan his next attack"😉} his HF would have still been suffeciently weakened. He obviously was not sleeping unless necessary given that he was keeping tuned to the news 24/7 for a scent to follow.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0It's not like DD. His chi would still be much more potent than Matts even without his Iron Fist.
So you had a dragon the size of Hulk, flying down on a depowered Danny Rand, Danny doesn't defend himself at all and stands there innocently like a schnook, and the dragon tail-whips him. Danny may have his chi as a normal martial artist of his experience and physique would have. Kind of like Daredevil. But he got KTFO by a dragon.
Yeah he got knocked out, I don't see damage that would greatly hinder him in a fight. I don't see it mentioned nor implied. I don't see Iron Fist wince in pain for the remainder of the book. I don't see him reach for sore spots on his body striking hurt poses. I don't see him reflecting on the pain of the dragons attack.. I see a guy get knocked out by a tail whip that's it.
And you're going to try and chastise me for concluding that Wolverine wasn't fighting non-stop inspite of the evidence that supports me and the evidence that's missing from you here? Hmmmmm...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0I believe it was stated to be 1on1 combat. Getting a KO is still>Iron Fist regardless if it was as embarassing or not.
No. Only if Junzo embarassed Steel Serpent to such a degree that Iron Fist could never replicate. But there is no proof that Junzo even dueled Steel Serpent. For all we know, Junzo used the Hand to overwhelm him in numbers or ambush him. Show proof that Junzo defeated Steel Serpent in one-on-one combat.
Originally posted by jinzinIt doesn't matter if his chi is more "potent." He couldn't harness it to heal himself. Danny was a regular skilled martial artist at that point and nothing changes the fact. That's what being utterly stripped of your powers means. He gets knocked out by a flying dragon and wakes up imprisoned in a cell. The way you initially presented it was as if Junzo had embarassed Iron Fist in a straight up duel.
It's not like DD. His chi would still be much more potent than Matts even without his Iron Fist.Yeah he got knocked out, I don't see damage that would greatly hinder him in a fight. I don't see it mentioned nor implied. I don't see Iron Fist wince in pain for the remainder of the book. I don't see him reach for sore spots on his body striking hurt poses. I don't see him reflecting on the pain of the dragons attack.. I see a guy get knocked out by a tail whip that's it.
And you're going to try and chastise me for concluding that Wolverine wasn't fighting non-stop inspite of the evidence that supports me and the evidence that's missing from you here? Hmmmmm...
I believe it was stated to be 1on1 combat. Getting a KO is still>Iron Fist regardless if it was as embarassing or not.
You may believe it was stated as 1v1 combat. Forgive me for not believing you. I've read reviews and looked at 2nd-hand information concerning the New Warriors comics where Junzo has captured Steel Serpent. No mention of a duel exists. Whatever ABC logic you're trying to assert doesn't matter since you have no proof that Junzo actually fought Steel Serpent. He probably used the Hand to ambush/capture him. Until you prove it, let's not waste time discussing your extrapolations from some non-existent fight.
Originally posted by jinzinIt doesn't exist. You probably got Tieri's interview or some comic book reviewer's interview mixed up in your head. Ennis has never been quoted as hating superheroes. IDLI, IDH is different from PIS.
The interview exists, a link for it was posted here.. 4 years ago. I simply don't see at what point the motivations for Ennis' writing needs to be questioned to justify me looking for up to hours on the internet to prove his bias is influenced by more than common sense and consistent character representation, especially when many unrelated people have arrived to the same conclusions he admitted to anyways.
I need to prove that the guy who wrote Pun kills the MU is bias? No....
So I'll say it again, you can conclude what you like about Ennis... But it's still PIS.
Originally posted by jinzinI don't remember Wolverine's bone claws drawing blood from Thanos. Scan or issue number, please? The difference between PIS and IDLI, IDH is usually based on which character you prefer. If you show me a scan of Shingen hitting Logan with a nerve shot to the throat, then you have an argument. Fact is, if I adopted your logic, then no way does Wolverine get DD in a full-nelson after 3 panels. What top tier MA has ever embarassed DD so?
Wolverine's bone claws have drawn blood from Thanos.. "It's on-panel and it works."The thing about DD's feat? It doesn't work. It's against a tidal wave of evidence to the contrary and that's just the thing. The difference betweenn PIS and IDLI IDH is consistency. There's no such consistency that exists with Logan.. Even with a weaker healing factor, while poisioned he stood up to more nerve shots from Shingen than DD hit him with. As stated before, that feat is PIS in it's own arc nevermind his whole career.
Originally posted by jinzinPretty sure a lot of people have argued that Typhoid Mary was actually influencing DD's thoughts with her powers. What's the issue number? Perhaps I'll have to find out myself, once again. Not only that, but Daredevil is obviously surprised when Wolverine reveals her identity to him. Afterwards, he gets him in a full-nelson. DD had no such benefits when Wolverine went into a berserker rage.
Sure it does. You want to equate Wolverine's showing of skill against DD the one time he was free of mind control and Ennis writing into the false notion that DD was surprised. Yet Logan was the one who was attacked from behind, Logan was the one who was distracted trying to chase after someone else, Logan was the one who was trying to explain the situation as DD was throwing blows. Wolverine outfought DD and to insinuate that all of DD's training, experience, and radar sense went out the window as soon as Wolverine told him that Typhoid developed a new personality is rich beyond compare.DD wasn't distracted.. and no Wolveirne was Garth Ennised... much worse.
Originally posted by jinzinThat single scene is what you're referring to? Him eating his arm on the ship happened between Japan and Canada in like the first two issues. Between his revisiting of Department H in Canada and Cap's fight, he travels to Serbia, then travels to Japan, then travels to Washington DC, then to Brooklyn and then to Vietnam. He picks up supplies AT LEAST twice, boards planes and trains and sits on a floor meditating in his hideout.
Where he eats part of his own arm to sustanance before passing out... 😕I thought it was stated on their website for the story writeup. In any case it doesn't matter too much... I'll state it again for you... If his HF was taxed at that point even if it was only days before the Cap fight, it still wasn't running at 100% effeciency.
After Canada, not once is it mentioned that he is starving or sleep deprived. He's fully fresh and he even grabs a different costume. NOTHING suggests his healing factor wasn't at 100% efficiency. Stop making excuses.
Originally posted by jinzinFunny, I read that first feat as him being partly incinerated. Guess we'll ahve to disagree. And once again, it wasn't a nuke. Nowhere is it referenced as a nuke in your scans. Go ahead and prove to me it was a nuke and I'll concede. Fact is, whether you believe it's true, I just don't trust your word anymore.
It took place literally pages before he got hit with the nuke... 😐coming from the guy who drivles on about "scan spankings" 🙄
No I cited the interview to SUPPORT the fact that Ennis isn't a good comic writer when it comes to guest appearances. I debunked the feats using.. what is it? Oh yes, "On-panel" evidence.
Originally posted by jinzinKnock it off. He only got his heart stabbed and ate his arm off in Japan and the boatride from Japan to Canada. That is it. Afterwards, he hitch-hikes, flys, takes trains to Europe, Asia, the US and back to Asia again. He hooks up with connections, drops by a hidden stash, picks up a costume, sits in his hideout and goes through several wardrobe changes. Nobody is going to believe that Wolverine didn't have sufficient time to eat and rest while travelling. His healing factor was in a rut in Canada and perhaps on the way to Serbia. Not at any point thereafter. He only tuned into the news in Brooklyn when his encounter with the Secretary ended with him no closer to those pulling the strings. He's sitting in his hideout in a meditative position. Pretty relaxing. You expect me to believe he didn't eat anything? This myth of yours is beyond reason. I find it hard to believe that you really need to go to such lengths.
There's no use of hyporbole whatsoever. Wolverine had his heart apparently cut in half, he hadn't eaten or rested longer than he could even remember which coould therefore very well include time during HOM which makes since considering he was on the run nearly the entire run of that book. He had to eat his own arm to sustain himself. Even if he stopped to eat or rest... {a notion which by the very nature of the story is questionable ("get me across the Atlantic in a hurry" "we don't have much time" "Every minute we've given Wolverine is another minute to plan his next attack"😉} his HF would have still been suffeciently weakened. He obviously was not sleeping unless necessary given that he was keeping tuned to the news 24/7 for a scent to follow.
Either way, it's a moot point in this thread. No healing factor for Logan. I'm sorry I brought it up when you mentioned it. Go ahead and have your last say and let's continue your starving, sleep-deprived Wolverine myth in some other thread where it's relevant. This thread got derailed enough.
Sorry`guys. Im not home right now, thus unable to reply like i want.
Re: DD and Wolvies scuffle, Matt knows Typhoid on a whole different level than anyone else probably save for Kingpin maybe. Because Matt has a history with her, his thinking is clouded. Wolvie said something like "Men cant think straight when they get near her.." or something like that. Considering the fact that Matt was once intimate with her, hed be affected moreso than the normal guy whos dated or been around her. Wolvie knew the sort of "hold" she had on men, and seeing how Matt wouldnt let harm come to her, he told Matt to stay behind and let him go after her alone.
I promise ill post scans as soon as i get home. Which will be in a couple of days(if this thread is still going).
Now re: DD fighting differently while in that suit, Matt didnt want ppl to know it was him. His fighting, speech and personality were different due to him wanting to stay "out of character". He tried fooling Cap with it as well as villains. Bushwacker even mentioned after shooting DD that "The real DD would have never let or allowed me to shoot him." Something like that. Due to wearing the suit, its clear his fighting is a bit sloppier. Its heavier and bulletproof.
Ill try to get scans of some of that as well. Give me time to get home.
Garth Ennis has said several times that he doesn't like the superhero genre. He grew up reading war comics and 2000AD and as such he has no nostalgic attachment to superheroes. He has stated several times that he never wants to write a Spider-man or the X-Men book because he doesn't find anything about them appealing. He has also stated that Superman is the one superhero he likes and that the Green Lantern is the one he likes the least as he feels he is a the embodiment of every stupid and silly idea in the superhero genre.
Anyone who has read Ennis' Hitman, The Boys, Judge Dredd, or Punisher should realise he has a contempt for costume heroes... I mean it isn't exactly subtly inserted into his stories, it's pretty glaring. He writes Wolverine as Wile E. Coyote for goodness sake! Has Garth stated that he hates superheroes? Not to my knowledge, but he has said he doesn't like them and has no desire to write superhero books... and the stuff he has writen is pretty telling.
If you are looking for interviews OneDumbG0 I THINK you are look for some stuff form around 93-94, which is pre Newsarama IIRC.
Originally posted by srankmissingninwolverine isn't really a superhero, I doubt Ennis hates or even dislikes Wolverine.
Garth Ennis has said several times that he doesn't like the superhero genre. He grew up reading war comics and 2000AD and as such he has no nostalgic attachment to superheroes. He has stated several times that he never wants to write a Spider-man or the X-Men book because he doesn't find anything about them appealing. He has also stated that Superman is the one superhero he likes and that the Green Lantern is the one he likes the least as he feels he is a the embodiment of every stupid and silly idea in the superhero genre.Anyone who has read Ennis' Hitman, The Boys, Judge Dredd, or Punisher should realise he has a contempt for costume heroes... I mean it isn't exactly subtly inserted into his stories, it's pretty glaring. He writes Wolverine as Wile E. Coyote for goodness sake! Has Garth stated that he hates superheroes? Not to my knowledge, but he has said he doesn't like them and has no desire to write superhero books... and the stuff he has writen is pretty telling.
If you are looking for interviews OneDumbG0 [b]I THINK
you are look for some stuff form around 93-94, which is pre Newsarama IIRC. [/B]
and damn why'd you change your sig? that wolverine one suited you perfectly and I was getting used to seeing it...
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Garth Ennis has said several times that he doesn't like the superhero genre. He grew up reading war comics and 2000AD and as such he has no nostalgic attachment to superheroes. He has stated several times that he never wants to write a Spider-man or the X-Men book because he doesn't find anything about them appealing. He has also stated that Superman is the one superhero he likes and that the Green Lantern is the one he likes the least as he feels he is a the embodiment of every stupid and silly idea in the superhero genre.Anyone who has read Ennis' Hitman, The Boys, Judge Dredd, or Punisher should realise he has a contempt for costume heroes... I mean it isn't exactly subtly inserted into his stories, it's pretty glaring. He writes Wolverine as Wile E. Coyote for goodness sake! Has Garth stated that he hates superheroes? Not to my knowledge, but he has said he doesn't like them and has no desire to write superhero books... and the stuff he has writen is pretty telling.
If you are looking for interviews OneDumbG0 [b]I THINK
you are look for some stuff form around 93-94, which is pre Newsarama IIRC. [/B]
Hell, The boys was a satire on the comic book super hero genre:
http://www.mania.com/hanging-boys-ten-questions-for-garth-ennis-darick-robertson_article_52055.html
"Kurt Amacker: Garth enjoys taking the piss out of superheroes. Besides serving as an excuse to graphically execute Marvel and DC look-alikes, does THE BOYS serve as a commentary on the comic industry's emphasis on heroes?
Darick Robertson: I think it's more about that in some ways than it is to take the piss out of Marvel and DC. They are our bread and butter, and I wouldn't do to the heroes I love what we do to the so-called heroes in THE BOYS. What I see in Garth's scripts is more of an allegory about absolute power corrupting absolutely. Like a lot of things, it's easy to only see the surface.
Garth Ennis: That's there, but it takes a back seat to what the book is really about: the effect superheroes would have on society and history, if they really existed. And, of course, the effect that politics and corporate backing would have on them. "
http://comicsnexus.com/2004/08/16/20202/
"Will: Could you see yourself ever working on Judge Dredd again? If so would you change you approach to the character in an attempt to bring more of your American comic’s style to bear?
Garth: Not a hope. I’m too close to Dredd, I like him too much. I can’t tamper with the formula; nor can I take the piss the way I do with superheroes."
Originally posted by srankmissingninEverything you stated about Superman and Green Lantern, I've heard from critics of Ennis. And they themselves don't reference an interview with Ennis. This is the best I could find from Ennis own mouth, http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=113158 :
Garth Ennis has said several times that he doesn't like the superhero genre. He grew up reading war comics and 2000AD and as such he has no nostalgic attachment to superheroes. He has stated several times that he never wants to write a Spider-man or the X-Men book because he doesn't find anything about them appealing. He has also stated that Superman is the one superhero he likes and that the Green Lantern is the one he likes the least as he feels he is a the embodiment of every stupid and silly idea in the superhero genre.Anyone who has read Ennis' Hitman, The Boys, Judge Dredd, or Punisher should realise he has a contempt for costume heroes... I mean it isn't exactly subtly inserted into his stories, it's pretty glaring. He writes Wolverine as Wile E. Coyote for goodness sake! Has Garth stated that he hates superheroes? Not to my knowledge, but he has said he doesn't like them and has no desire to write superhero books... and the stuff he has writen is pretty telling.
If you are looking for interviews OneDumbG0 [b]I THINK
you are look for some stuff form around 93-94, which is pre Newsarama IIRC. [/B]
NRAMA: What was your take on Tommy's relationship with superheroes? Most of them, such as Batman and Green Lantern, seem to exist mainly as Tommy's foils. As a writer, how did you view those characters?
GE: Tommy saw them all as idiots, mostly walking bullet-magnets to be avoided like the plague. Occasionally they would be worthy of a little more respect, eg. someone as dangerous as Batman, but at the end of the day it’s still a man in tights. My own attitude has always been to write established characters as I think they would actually behave, rather than by any company guidelines. Batman, again, is one of those military genius figures like General Patton – you’d want him on your side, but you wouldn’t want to spend more than two seconds in his company
NRAMA: Superman, on the other hand, is the one hero for whom Tommy shows respect, and the issue where they talk (#34) was one of the best in the series. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that issue, and on the character of Superman in general.
GE: To Tommy, Superman is the ultimate American, the one concept which will turn our boy just a little bit sentimental. To me – again, writing the way I think the character would be- Superman should be like Jesus. Constantly let down by humanity, and never giving up on them.
Alex Ross stated in a Wizard interview that he hates the X-Men and the very concept of them and likened them to gangs. Is any story that he writes/plots/scripts which includes Wolverine or any other mutant necessarily going to portray them as being schnooks? Not necessarily, as you can tell by 'Marvels.' Either way, I've never seen any Ennis interviews or any of these statements. If you find them, by all means, show me. Otherwise, it's speculation. And speculation doesn't change IDLI, IDH into PIS. I may not convince you, but unless Ennis stated or admitted he had an agenda against Wolverine, like how Tieri had an agenda against Punisher; or he publicly retracted his portrayal, then it still stands as a valid feat.
I don't think we've ever discounted on-panel feats or storylines because of perceived bias on the writer's part. I could perhaps concede if you provided proof of it, but I've looked and there's nothing but what other people inject into it through criticism. My two cents.
Hmm...
I guess its common knowledge that Garth has a disdain for superheros. I didn't even type in superheroes.
Makes me wonder just how hard Dumb even bothered to search.
http://www.thepunishercomics.com/artists/garth_ennis/garth_ennis.htm
Took me about 10 seconds to find that... I'm sure I could find more if I looked.
Originally posted by srankmissingninDid you see the ones I found?
http://www.thepunishercomics.com/artists/garth_ennis/garth_ennis.htmTook me about 10 seconds to find that... I'm sure I could find more if I looked.
http://www.mania.com/hanging-boys-ten-questions-for-garth-ennis-darick-robertson_article_52055.html
http://comicsnexus.com/2004/08/16/20202/
Ennis disdain for superheroes isn't what makes the events PIS, the inaccuracy of the characters he has portrayed is what makes it PIS... that inaccuracy just happens to be fueled by Ennis disdain for superheroes. 😮
IDLI, IDH has nothing to do with it. It's PIS because it is out of line with majority of appearances. 'Nuff Said. Lets move on.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Did you see the ones I found?http://www.mania.com/hanging-boys-ten-questions-for-garth-ennis-darick-robertson_article_52055.html
http://comicsnexus.com/2004/08/16/20202/
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