Wolverine vs. Daredevil - H2H

Started by Creshosk24 pages

Originally posted by jrodslam
No, you have to do your own work. You comment like on what i said is inaccurate. Its your job to prove me wrong.
Negative proof fallacy.. als o violating the kmc rules:

No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove

Burden of proof is on your shoulders. You said that seemed like the only time.. prove it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Yea i said that. I didnt see any other time where it appeared Wolvie was fighting the control at all. Theres nothing else to show.
That's not proving your case...

Originally posted by jrodslam
See above.

I did, because i didnt post any more scans. Did i miss something Cresh? I dont think so, but if you find anything i missed, be sure to let me know. Otherwise, thats it.🙂

Not my job to do your legwork for you.

Negative proof fallacy.

Originally posted by jrodslam
You havent posted anything that supports your argument. Youre not doing your job. You post, then a rebuttal follows.
My argument is you need to prove your claims.
No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove

That seemed like the only time? Then prove it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Wasnt. As in was not. Wolverine was not a complete puppet the entire fight, NOR was he fighting the control the entire fight.

Theres no contradiction there. There were times where there was fight/struggle in Wolvie. There were times where Wolvie was going to try and complete his mission.

Comprehension ftw?

So what you're saying is there WERE times that he was a complete puppet?

Prove it. Prove that he was a complete puppet.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Negative proof fallacy.. als o violating the kmc rules:

Burden of proof is on your shoulders. You said that seemed like the only time.. prove it.

That's not proving your case...

Not my job to do your legwork for you.

Negative proof fallacy.

My argument is you need to prove your claims.

That seemed like the only time? Then prove it.

Ive posted proof via scans to support my argument. You havent done so at all.

Scan 1, Wolvies thinking is completely under the control.
Scan 2, Wolvie stalls his mission, thus has to be told to shut up and continue. He even doubts the controllers success.
Scan 3, Wolvie under the control again and goes for the kill.

Ive showed scan that support this. You havent showing anything that supports your argument.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So what you're saying is there WERE times that he was a complete puppet?

Prove it. Prove that he was a complete puppet.

Lol. I see youre getting desperate because im just posting the scan over and over again. Your cant seem to come up with anything to support your argument.

Heres an instance aka PROOF of a time that Wolverine was a complete puppet and was going for the kill. Which was his mission.

Key Words...........Controller - "Finish him...."
Wolverine - "Enjoy yourself bub. Could have him pieces by the time they get..."

Ive done my job of backing my statements. Do yours.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Ive posted proof via scans to support my argument. You havent done so at all.
One scan does not prove that its the only time it seems like it.

If all you've got is specualtion, you've got no proof.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Scan 1, Wolvies thinking is completely under the control.
Prove it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Scan 2, Wolvie stalls his mission, thus has to be told to shut up and continue. He even doubts the controllers success.
Scan 3, Wolvie under the control again and goes for the kill.
So he was only fighting it for one scan and all it took was telling him to shut up?

Yeah that's logical... Dude fights to come back when he's very badly injured to save a friend and all it takes is telling him to shut up and he does... Seems kinda.. stupid.. but it was for the plot...

Oh wait.. stupidity for the sake of the plot.. what does that sound like?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Ive showed scan that support this. You havent showing anything that supports your argument.
Your scans do not prove your arguments.. you given scans and your flawed interpritation of the scans...

I ask you for proof and you give me "seems".. as itn thats YOUR take on the subject?

And yet your take is illogical...

I'm sorry, but you haven't proven anything.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Lol. I see youre getting desperate because im just posting the scan over and over again. Your cant seem to come up with anything to support your argument.
I'm going to start reporting you for spamming. Your scans been debunked.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Heres an instance aka PROOF of a time that Wolverine was a complete puppet and was going for the kill. Which was his mission.

Key Words...........Controller - "Finish him...."
Wolverine - "Enjoy yourself bub. Could have him pieces by the time they get..."

Ive done my job of backing my statements. Do yours.

Funny that he's thinking that rather than doing that.

No you haven't.. Your interpretations of the scans are not concrete. You've been given counter speculation on interpretation. Now prove your claims.

Originally posted by Creshosk
One scan does not prove that its the only time it seems like it.

Are there any other panels where it appears so? If so, show me. Till them, thats the only one that evident.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So he was only fighting it for one scan and all it took was telling him to shut up?

Yeah that's logical... Dude fights to come back when he's very badly injured to save a friend and all it takes is telling him to shut up and he does... Seems kinda.. stupid.. but it was for the plot...

Oh wait.. stupidity for the sake of the plot.. what does that sound like?

Your are one of the few who say Wolvie was fighting mind control. Can you show anywhere where its shown besides the one page i posted? Im sure you cant because there is non. Thats unless you can find one, but i doubt you can.

Wolvie stalls and the controller tells him to shut up and complete your mission. He tell wolvie to go for the kill, and wolvie does. Hmmm?

Originally posted by Creshosk
I ask you for proof and you give me "seems".. as itn thats YOUR take on the subject?

You havent even addressed the scans. You say it my interpretation. So whats yours?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Wasnt. As in was not. Wolverine was not a complete puppet the entire fight, NOR was he fighting the control the entire fight.

Theres no contradiction there. There were times where there was fight/struggle in Wolvie. There were times where Wolvie was going to try and complete his mission.

Comprehension ftw?

😬

That's the thing though.

There were instances where Wolverine is arguing with the other thought boxes, doing heroic things, and when he was clear headed he stated that during THAT confrontation with DD he tried his best not to bad another mask.

Therefore the points where Wolverine starts thinking thoughts like having DD in 100 pieces isn't his thoughts as DD said.

DD wasn't fighting Wolverine really, he was fighting Wolverine's body. And he wasn't faring too hot.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I'm going to start reporting you for spamming. Your scans been debunked.

Funny that he's thinking that rather than doing that.

No you haven't.. Your interpretations of the scans are not concrete. You've been given counter speculation on interpretation. Now prove your claims.

Haha. Not its clear that you truly are lost. Or in denial.

You say thes thinking it rather than doing it? Controller says go for the kill, then next thing you know....you guessed it, Wolvie takes a swipe at DD's chest/abdomen area. Lol.

You say my interpretations are not concrete? Tell me your interpretation on the scan then.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Are there any other panels where it appears so? If so, show me. Till them, thats the only one that evident.
Argumentum ad ignorantiam.

Sorry, nice try but you said it WAS the only one.. So prove it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Your are one of the few who say Wolvie was fighting mind control. Can you show anywhere where its shown besides the one page i posted? Im sure you cant because there is non. Thats unless you can find one, but i doubt you can.
Cute baiting... But you claimed that it IS the only one, you have to prove it... So far you're just trying to get me to do your work for you.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Wolvie stalls and the controller tells him to shut up and complete your mission. He tell wolvie to go for the kill, and wolvie does. Hmmm?
You're not very familiar with wolverine if you think that telling him to shut up is all it takes.

Originally posted by jrodslam
You havent even addressed the scans. You say it my interpretation. So whats yours?
I don't have to give an interpretation. I'm jut telling you that your s is NOT concrete.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Haha. Not its clear that you truly are lost. Or in denial.

You say thes thinking it rather than doing it? Controller says go for the kill, then next thing you know....you guessed it, Wolvie takes a swipe at DD's chest/abdomen area. Lol.

You say my interpretations are not concrete? Tell me your interpretation on the scan then.

Nope. not going to til your prove your claims. Thus far all you've been trying to do is get me to prove your claims. You said "Seems like the only one" I told you to prove it. You tell me to prove it for you... Negative proof fallacy.

Got any VALID arguments? Or are you just going to commit fallacies?

Originally posted by jinzin
😬

That's the thing though.

There were instances where Wolverine is arguing with the other thought boxes, doing heroic things, and when he was clear headed he stated that during THAT confrontation with DD he tried his best not to bad another mask.

Therefore the points where Wolverine starts thinking thoughts like having DD in 100 pieces isn't his thoughts as DD said.

DD wasn't fighting Wolverine really, he was fighting Wolverine's body. And he wasn't faring too hot.

Yes thats the thing. I never stated that Wolvie never tried not to fight it. I never once said that. Wolvie tried not to bag another mask, but the control took over.(in the last couple of panels before getting knocked clear-headed).

Yes Wolvies thoughts were influenced and werent is clear thoughts when he thought about dicing matt to pieces, however he was still going to precede with the plan.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Sorry, nice try but you said it WAS the only one.. So prove it.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Cute baiting... But you claimed that it IS the only one, you have to prove it... So far you're just trying to get me to do your work for you.
Originally posted by Creshosk
You said "Seems like the only one"

Hmmm, now which one was it?

Ahh, yes, it IS the only one. It WAS the only one.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Hmmm, now which one was it?

Ahh, yes, it IS the only one. It WAS the only one.

A.) Those don't contradict each other... You said something about reading comprehension?

Perhaps this is why you have the interpritation that you do.. you seem to be haveing trouble understanding simple text.

"you said it WAS the only one.. So prove it."
"you claimed that it IS the only one, you have to prove it... "
"You said "Seems like the only one""

Those are all the same thing...

B.) Prove it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Yes thats the thing. I never stated that Wolvie never tried not to fight it.
What is that.. triple negative? Double and the third is out of a quotation?

Originally posted by jrodslam
I never once said that. Wolvie tried not to bag another mask, but the control took over.(in the last couple of panels before getting knocked clear-headed).

Yes Wolvies thoughts were influenced and werent is clear thoughts when he thought about dicing matt to pieces, however he was still going to precede with the plan.

He thought about it instead of just acting upon it...

Interesting no?

I don't get the pages and pages of arguing.

I thought that whether he was a "complete puppet" or whether he was an "occasional puppet"(?) it was generally accepted that characters under mind control don't fight to their best abilities.

Shiva and Batman stalemate in pretty much all their encounters except the one where she gets knocked out easily when under the control of Grodd.
Cyclops can hit the eye out of a dime but he can't hit Storm when he's done it before, when he was under the control of Candra.
Etc. Etc.

Originally posted by jinzin
You can't be bothered? Then what's the point of starting this little debate between us in the first place. It IS a stretch to say that he was distracted/effected more than Wolverine. It IS a stretch to assume that's the only reason DD faired poorly when Wolverine was transitioning to the last panel as he told DD about Mary.

Oh I see so now its a stretch now is it? First of all you stated that when Wolverine fought SS and he was distracted it was a legitimate reason. When I borught up the DD example you changed that its t subjective and now its a stretch.....anyway jrod posted scans that proved that that suit affected his ability to fight.

So its not just the suprise it his suit as well. Anyway DD showed enough strength in his fight with Wolverine in EOTS that he could get out of a full-nelson.

Originally posted by jinzin

Then consider yourself reported for trolling.

Its frustrating having to explain stuff I feel I shouldn't have to. Its frustarting having to debate with somebody whos always trying to twist things around hell look at what you're doing with the DD vs Wolverine fight.

Originally posted by jinzin

No.. what does that matter concerning anything?

...and this is exactly what im talking about.

Originally posted by jinzin

And this is why I surmised that you thought it acceptable for Cap to KO Hulk with punches... 😐

No I call it PIS because it completely disregards a characters common representation for the sake of getting Cap or DD out of hairy situations..

Tell me this.. If Wolverine has more feats where he's taken worse damage to the throat area than he has been effected by damage to that area why is the ONE DD example of DD damaging him with a throat strike the more acceptable feat?
Do you not find that odd?

If Hulk has more feats of not even being effected by damage output greater than Cap can dish out with his fingers or fists why is Cap's feat the more valid to you?

Er no becuase worse damage is subjective Mr Hyde has taken worse damage but that still didn't stop DD dropping him with a pressure point.
Its an established fact that MAs are able to hurt people who can take vast amounts of damage hell back in the day BP was able to hurt Savage HUlk with a kick is all that PIS?

Hell havent you argued that Wolverine was able to hurt Roughouse with his barehands and hurt HUlk with a headbutt etc etc. I dunno sounds like blatant hypocrisy.

Originally posted by jinzin

Yes. His HF was depleted due to malnourishment and deprivation after HOM up to days before the Cap fight to the point he blacked out. During the fight Cap nailed him with the Muramasa, a blade he can't heal from. He said that the wound that was left made Wolverine feel like he was dying.

No it was written down because Way, the guy who just got done writing an arc where Wolverine's taking everything DP could dish out to him for three issues straight needed to raise the stakes of his story line.

STFU. You've admitted that you argue for no other reason than to argue. You've admitted that you do it just to rile Wolverine fans. Hell yes you're bias.
And me get out? You're the one "sigh"ing every other post.

Newsflash: no one's hounding you endlessly in every thread you appear in. On the other hand you ARE invasive of every thread Wolverine appears in for no other reason than to argue with Wolverine fans. Either be ready for consistent retorts or stop being a trolling fool.

It didn't.

Yeah DD looks great. Disarmed, knocked across a room twice, bleeding clutching his chest and owing his "victory" to several plot devices against a weakened mind controlled Wolverine... SOOOO impressive. 😐

Im done with that im not going to argue it any further. If you must know im actually trying to have a proper debate but if it pisses you off....good!

Originally posted by jrodslam
Not seeing the fail there. I stated as well as it was shown, that Wolvie was not able to fight off the mind control the entire time. There was an instance where Wolvie seemed to be stalling, thus showing us that hes actually fighting it to a degree. There are also times where the mins control fully took Wolvie over and he was going to continue with his mission. Noone is denying that Wolvie tried to fight it. The thing that you and others try to make it seem is that Wolvie was trying to fight it the entire fight. Like he was never completely overcome by it, which is false.

For me there is not enough evidence to say that he was fighting the mindcontrol.

Its not like when he was fighting Thing and he almost got clobbered because of it. There is no dialogue saying Kill Daredevil and Wolverine trying to resist it, hell even the yellow and green boxes show animosity towards DD.

I would agree that when he says 'Shut up' that could be a distraction but its not exactly a big deal.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its frustrating having to explain stuff I feel I shouldn't have to. Its frustarting having to debate with somebody whos always trying to twist things around hell look at what you're doing with the DD vs Wolverine fight.
If it's frustrating having to post on here, having to debate with people, then don't do it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im done with that im not going to argue it any further. If you must know im actually trying to have a proper debate but if it pisses you off....good!
Way to contradict yourself there cheif.. and no, you're not.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
For me there is not enough evidence to say that he was fighting the mindcontrol.

Its not like when he was fighting Thing and he almost got clobbered because of it. There is no dialogue saying Kill Daredevil and Wolverine trying to resist it, hell even the yellow and green boxes show animosity towards DD.

I would agree that when he says 'Shut up' that could be a distraction but its not exactly a big deal.

Of course you don't. Because you don't want to admit that the fight had circumstances to it I've noticed that you only seem to argue against wolverine, and only for him when you have an ulterior motive.

Originally posted by Creshosk
If it's frustrating having to post on here, having to debate with people, then don't do it.

Way to contradict yourself there cheif.. and no, you're not.

Of course you don't. Because you don't want to admit that the fight had circumstances to it I've noticed that you only seem to argue against wolverine, and only for him when you have an ulterior motive.

👆 🙄

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
👆 🙄
You think I'm kidding?

You don't want to debate. When challenged sometimes you say you can't be assed or whatever. That's not proper debate. You think its frustrating to have to explain your veiws? Then you shouldn't try to debate if its frustrating.

Did you miss X's post?

it was generally accepted that characters under mind control don't fight to their best abilities.

Shiva and Batman stalemate in pretty much all their encounters except the one where she gets knocked out easily when under the control of Grodd.
Cyclops can hit the eye out of a dime but he can't hit Storm when he's done it before, when he was under the control of Candra.
Etc. Etc.

Control was proven, he even thought about doing something rather than doing it, and there was evidence presented that he was fighting the mind control.

But hey if you don't want to "properly debate" then don't. If you do want to properly debate, then you CAN be assed (or whatever).