Wolverine vs. Daredevil - H2H

Originally posted by Creshosk
You think I'm kidding?

You don't want to debate. When challenged sometimes you say you can't be assed or whatever. That's not proper debate. You think its frustrating to have to explain your veiws? Then you shouldn't try to debate if its frustrating.

Did you miss X's post?

Control was proven, he even thought about doing something rather than doing it, and there was evidence presented that he was fighting the mind control.

But hey if you don't want to "properly debate" then don't. If you do want to properly debate, then you CAN be assed (or whatever).

No people dont always agree that if somebody is mind controlled that it inhibits them. People dont always resist mind control and it doesn't always hinder their fighting ability. When Cap beat Beat his mind control certainly didn't inhibit him there.

Furthermore I agreed that it inhibited him when fighting Thing and I also agreed that Wolverine being surpised by SS was a legitimate reason for Wolverine getting caught out. So no there are no double standards.

Hell if Wolverine had actually got put in a full-nelson when he said Shut Up I might have agreed, but that didn't happen and there is a significant portion of Wolverine fighting DD while not fighting mind control.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No people dont always agree that if somebody is mind controlled that it inhibits them.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
People dont always resist mind control and it doesn't always hinder their fighting ability. When Cap beat Beat his mind control certainly didn't inhibit him there.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Furthermore I agreed that it inhibited him when fighting Thing and I also agreed that Wolverine being surpised by SS was a legitimate reason for Wolverine getting caught out. So no there are no double standards.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hell if Wolverine had actually got put in a full-nelson when he said Shut Up I might have agreed,

Again, do you read what you post?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
but that didn't happen and there is a significant portion of Wolverine fighting DD while not fighting mind control.

Originally posted by jinzin
😬

That's the thing though.

There were instances where Wolverine is arguing with the other thought boxes, doing heroic things, and when he was clear headed he stated that during THAT confrontation with DD he tried his best not to bad another mask.

Therefore the points where Wolverine starts thinking thoughts like having DD in 100 pieces isn't his thoughts as DD said.

DD wasn't fighting Wolverine really, he was fighting Wolverine's body. And he wasn't faring too hot.

DD's was doing pretty well considering he was fighting Logan's and the hand.

Funny how you used the mental excuse for against DD. But when EOTS Logan fought Electra you never even mention it once. But then again you did ignore the circumstances of the group hindering Logan with a spray as well before he fought Electra.

I believe the mental aspect did effect Logan but he was still very dangerous ala what he did to Thing and Namor. And how he outsmarted Torch and used his tech to escape from Reeds.

You don't need to be fighting mind control to be hindered by it. Being mind controlled in itself is a hindrance to a character performing to the best of their abilities. Actively fighting it just makes it more of a hindrance.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And some people disagree that characters doing things that are stupid for the sake of the plot is PIS... That does not however make them right.

Look people are not always hindered by mind control so its good to not always assume that they are, simple.

Originally posted by Creshosk

When he beat it... Eesh.. do you even read what you're going to post?

That was meant to read when Cap beat Beast, his mind control did not hinder him.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Of course you don't think there is.

If he had gotten DD in a full neslson when you admit that it distracted wolverine, you would have agreed that Wolverine was hindered?

....if Wolverine had got put into a full-nelson when he said "Shut up" I might have agreed that would be a legitimate excuse.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Again, do you read what you post?

Dont like my post then get lost.

Originally posted by Creshosk

"Significant portion" is not 100%

Its near enough apart from the shutup example theres is nothing else.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You don't need to be fighting mind control to be hindered by it.

No you dont and theres no other evidence that the mind control hindered Wolverine in that fight. 😐

Perhaps you meant "but," as it stands your response to my statement was logically inconsistent.

The showing's themselves are evidences. It's not explicitly stated that Cyclop's aim is made shit by Candra's mind control. But it is shit compared to his normal showings. It doesn't explicitly say Shiva's skill is shit in Superman/Batman #3. But it is shit compared to her normal showings.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Perhaps you meant "but," as it stands your response to my statement was logically inconsistent.

No it wasn't. *sigh*

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

The showing's themselves are evidences. It's not explicitly stated that Cyclop's aim is made shit by Candra's mind control. But it is shit compared to his normal showings.

No not neccesarily. I think alot of people would agree that DD could avoid alot of Wolverines strikes but would eventually get killed because Wolverine would finally get him. Which is what would have happened in that fight.

Furthermore the way in which Wolverine dealt with certain individuals implies that his showings were not worse than normal.

You don't need to be A to be B.
No you don't (agreement) and blah blah blah (disagreement).

Seemed logically inconsistent to me.

Anyway I'm not getting into this crappy Wolverine/DD mind control debate again. Wolverine still wins the majority.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You don't need to be A to be B.
No you don't (agreement) and blah blah blah (disagreement).

Seemed logically inconsistent to me.

Of course it does.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Anyway I'm not getting into this crappy Wolverine/DD mind control debate again. Wolverine still wins the majority.

Fine.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You don't need to be fighting mind control to be hindered by it. Being mind controlled in itself is a hindrance to a character performing to the best of their abilities. Actively fighting it just makes it more of a hindrance.

Not necessarily. What if the mind-control was simply a brain-washing that made the victim see/think/believe that he/she was is fighting against an enemy that he/she would have to fight against with the best of his/her ability in order to defeat?

I know, that was a horrible sentence, but I'm sure you get my point. Maybe you don't think this way, but I believe that brain-washing is simply a type of mind-control.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Not necessarily. What if the mind-control was simply a brain-washing that made the victim see/think/believe that he/she was is fighting against an enemy that he/she would have to fight against with the best of his/her ability in order to defeat?

I know, that was a horrible sentence, but I'm sure you get my point. Maybe you don't think this way, but I believe that brain-washing is simply a type of mind-control.

For an example we can look at the Superman/WW fight in the Sacrifice arc, where Superman has been brainwashed into thinking WW is Doomsday and has killed Lois. Which I suppose should mean that Superman will be using his abilities to his fullest. But imo I don't really think that fight should be considered Superman fighting to the best of his abilities. I just don't think mind control fights in general are the best examples to use...

Originally posted by jinzin
He has a bias against superheroes.. It's not up for debate. In one of the links Cresh provided he flat out states that he takes a piss with superheroes. How you continue to argue otherwise, to prattle on in spite of such a well known fact and a self admittance to the issue is well beyond my ability to even comprehend.

He has no bias because Daredevil was the superhero he shat on the least in that story? Uh, no. It's pretty clear that he interpreted DD has the next most realistic hero next to Punisher. It's why DD's barking the orders, why Wolverine's following them, and why he's the only one out of the 3 supers who wasn't acting like a total amateur or an idiot. And he STILL got mishandled. Apparently he's fast enough to avoid Wolverine but Punisher can tackle him out a window... Wow.
There's a reason why Spiderman got tossed aside like garbage and DD didn't.... I suppose it's giving you too much credit to figure out why on your own.

Originally posted by jinzin
It's clearly not "nuff said" given that both universes have acknowledged it. At any rate it only serves as an illustration to show that a feat occurring "on-panel" does not rid the weight of PIS in any circumstance. Consistency does.

Originally posted by jinzin
No it's not the bottom-line. And I'm not stupid enough to take the bait of such a ridiculous red herring.
The fact of the matter is that PIS is PIS no matter what "level" it's on.
Spiderman being knocked out by Aunt May with a vase to the back of the head, or from an old woman with a broom may not be on the same "level" as SMvs.FL but it's still indisputably PIS.

Originally posted by jinzin
The real bottom line is that Wolverine's feats of dealing with trauma to his throat which outstrips that of a single strike and wading through it like nothing greatly outnumbers the few examples to the contrary, and that's only the examples of him dealing with throat damage, nevermind the multitudes of times he's had to take far far worse.. like.. Oh I dunno almost every brick fight he's ever had. In fact, the only other examples
I can even think of that would begin to support the DD throat strike are limited to 4 incidents. 4.....
2 of which are inadmissible as they precede Fatal Attractions.
1 of which is noncannon (and we all know how you feel about that).
and the last of which Wolverine got up and took down his opponent to the point of a near death blow after a foreign object ws removed from his throat which he later hinted may have been on purpose anyways.
So out those four incidents there's one that MIGHT be admissible.

Originally posted by jinzin
For claiming that you've read a lot of Wolverine, you're failing to remember a MASSIVELY important fight of his career. How do you not remember the first fight he had with Lady Mariko's father? Dear lord even Alffheim knows about that one.
No, I'm not referring to Ogun, I'm referring to SHINGEN, as I said (though I suppose this cements the answer to Cresh's question if you're comprehending any of this very well).

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not evading shit. I'm asking a legitimate question the answer to which I don't know. How many people has DD fought that are on Wolverine's level of skill, experience and physicality all at once? And how DID he fair.

And, actually Elektra has.

Originally posted by jinzin
Not perceived. It's admitted.

He wasn't being actively effected by Mary. Wolverine states that people aren't in their rights minds when they get around Mary. DD wasn't around Mary, he was following her a block away three stories up... Wolverine is not only closer to Mary when the fight starts, and blindsided to boot, but Wolverine's heightened senses would logically enhance his reaction to anything Mary may have tossed his way.. and she did toss a shit heap his way the issue before that, before he started fighting VENGEANCE (Ghost Rider plus since you keep insisting on forgeting that part).

When Wolverine stated what he did about her ability to manipulate it was before he offered to go after her himself. The statement was nothing more than a warning to DD basically telling DD he was going to clean the mess he started. DD never attributed an affect from Mary, and Wolverine didn't either.

Mid-battle? No. How about mid-kick? He was using an attack that Wolverine was swordblocking and sidestepping as he explained the situation he was already moving into position when DD was "surprised".

Originally posted by jinzin
Coming from a guy who argued for weeks that the hail of bullets putting Wolverine down was legit? I find this rich as the very cake you're describing.

God you are being absolutely ridiculous... "he looks fine"? What the hell? He "looks fine" when he heals from being blown to a skeleton.. He's not fine... "looks" has nothing to do with it. And I don't know where you got that I think it's more plausible for Wolverine to have slept/ate to a point of 100% when that's contradictory to the storyline we're discussing.
It's not that Wolverine being taxed out when fighting makes more sense to me, it's that it makes sense given the premise of the story, it makes sense given the abilities of Wolverine, and it makes sense given Way's interpretation of Wolverine's healing factor.

Scanners... broken.. I'm really not sure what you want me to do about that.. I'll do what I can.

Originally posted by jinzin
What. When he said "If you wanna kill me you're gonna need a bigger bomb"? LOL...
If you read the story you didn't read it very well since the people who launched the damned thing called it a friggin NUKE.

Originally posted by jinzin
Wrong.

It's not a theory nor a concoction. Wolverine needing sufficient time and rest to recover from a taxed out HF goes as far back as his first Brood encounter, and his first encounter being crucified by the Reavers. Even if you want to believe that Wolverine slept and ate, his HF wouldn't be up to par by the time he fought Cap. Period. It's not up for debate.

Originally posted by jinzin
Wow, so you equate Jesus to a murdering psychopath? And you say I lack credibility.

And just because it wasn't on the "level" of a street beating a herald doesn't mean you get to grab any low showing you want and represent it as the standard... Hence the problem we're confronting here.

I'm referring to the post where you tried to validate the throat strike with Ord's gut slash or Elektra's attack.. Where all this crap started.. Your best retort was some crazed sideways attack of my credibility based on your inability to find interviews or follow plot lines.

Originally posted by jinzin
Completely busted? Uh no, the argument is and has always been that Wolverine did not sleep or eat for a good portion of time after HOM to the point that it effected his HF. This is supported. It's supported by his statement concerning eating his own arm, blacking out from deprivation and malnourishment thereafter, a weakened healing factor between two showings of high healing factor from Way, a history of needing time to get back up to 100% after a taxing, incidents where Wolverine's travelled halfway around the world without eating or sleeping in spite of accumulated damage, and a feat from Way that contradicts the very one you're trying to support 7 issues later.

Your best response? "He traveled more and changed his clothes he must have ate and slept accordingly it's the logical thing to do" completely ignoring mounds of evidence to the contrary, lacking the on panel proof you love so much at night to support the theory, and ignoring that Wolverine is anything but a logical or rational man. 😐 [/B][/QUOTE]Couldn't be more wrong. Read the intro to Wolverine #37 again. It specifically states that Wolverine had been in hiding for weeks before he confronted Silver Samurai in Japan. So he didn't wake up at the end of 'House of M' and go straight to Japan. He obviously was gathering himself to go and figure out his plans for revenge. So right off the bat, you're wrong. Again. After Canada, Wolverine met with connections, retrieved supplies on-panel twice, had three different changes of clothes, sat in his hideout, got onto trains, planes, automobiles, oh my! He had more than enough time to eat and sleep and recover. And your wild theorizing and misreading of the arc does nothing to change how utterly wrong and laughable your theory was. Nuff said.

Originally posted by jinzin
A normal human? No.. a peak human with high levels of chi... FAR from normal.
No Iron Fist does not equate to no chi.

The dragon wasn't even the size of Hulk, on further inspection it's far smaller.
Where's your on panel evidence that it effected Iron Fists fighting ability? That it did anything more than knock him out? You don't have any because nothing even close to the sort was ever mentioned as in AT ALL. it doesn't exist. Yet you're going to sit here and preach to me not to hold in regard something that was referenced and evidenced? You're a true beacon of hypocrisy my friend.

Yes Luke may have hit Junzo, but it really doesn't matter as Junzo wasn't using his powers yet while Cage can't turn his off and Iron Fist has already admitted that he can't take Luke straight up.
Once Junzo did what happened? Luke got KTFO with one hit.
Wolverine lapel grabbing Junzo, stuffing his Iron Fist, while backing him into a corner while he's was using all his abilities is a far more impressive feat than anything Iron Fist, Cage or the entirety of the New Warriors accomplished against the man.

You can't keep up this kind of behavior without raising eyebrows. Nothing you say has any credibility to me until I see it for myself. And since your scanner is broken (how many times from different people have I heard that excuse before), your word on your interpretation is worth spit to me. That isn't meant to be disparaging. Fact is, I've had veterans actually give me scans and outright lie to me about their content on these forums. And since you indulge in double standards, I will not give you the benefit of the doubt. Whether or not you respect my opinion is worthless to me. Whether or not I convince you is even more worthless to me. I pointed out the circumstances surrounding Junzo and Iron Fist for everyone else's benefit. We can agree to disagree on anything else. I'm not commanding you to change your opinion. It's firmly cemented, I'm just calling it like I see it and giving other people notice.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Oh I see so now its a stretch now is it? First of all you stated that when Wolverine fought SS and he was distracted it was a legitimate reason. When I borught up the DD example you changed that its t subjective and now its a stretch.....anyway jrod posted scans that proved that that suit affected his ability to fight.

With Wolverine and SS they literally stopped fighting, Sam told him whatever he told him and Wolverine stated that whatever was said had him rattled even a day later.

DD he just got owned with no excuse to voice out.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So its not just the suprise it his suit as well. Anyway DD showed enough strength in his fight with Wolverine in EOTS that he could get out of a full-nelson.

Even if it did (and it doesn't) show a display of DD's overall strength, it showed that DD can do nothing more than hold Wolverine at bay... which in no way translates to being able to overpower Wolverine from a position of superior leverage. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its frustrating having to explain stuff I feel I shouldn't have to. Its frustarting having to debate with somebody whos always trying to twist things around hell look at what you're doing with the DD vs Wolverine fight.

What AM I doing with the fight?
You presented me with the challenge of showing that it didn't make DD look good.. It doesn't.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er no becuase worse damage is subjective Mr Hyde has taken worse damage but that still didn't stop DD dropping him with a pressure point.
Its an established fact that MAs are able to hurt people who can take vast amounts of damage hell back in the day BP was able to hurt Savage HUlk with a kick is all that PIS?

And YES... it was.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hell havent you argued that Wolverine was able to hurt Roughouse with his barehands and hurt HUlk with a headbutt etc etc. I dunno sounds like blatant hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im done with that im not going to argue it any further. If you must know im actually trying to have a proper debate but if it pisses you off....good!

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
For me there is not enough evidence to say that he was fighting the mindcontrol.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its not like when he was fighting Thing and he almost got clobbered because of it. There is no dialogue saying Kill Daredevil and Wolverine trying to resist it, hell even the yellow and green boxes show animosity towards DD.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I would agree that when he says 'Shut up' that could be a distraction but its not exactly a big deal.

"Shut up!" Not a big deal.

Yes.... I see your rationale now... 😐

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Junzo was using his powers when Luke Cage confronted him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So apparently, in your mind that makes him better than Iron Fist and Wolverine, neither of who actually hit Junzo.

He was using his powers when he fought Wolverine... all of them....
What happened the moments that Junzo used his powers against Luke.. Luke got practically one shotted then sent flying for good measure.

What happened when he tried using all his powers elemental included vs. Wolverine? Oh yeah, NOTHING he got backed into a corner.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You never proved that Junzo actually fought Steel Serpent one on one either. You never mentioned that Danny got KTFO by a flying dragon before his encounter with Junzo when you brought up that feat.

Danny being knocked out by a tail whip is inconsequential to his fight with Junzo unless you think that a tail whip from a lizard who's maybe only slightly larger than a human being is massively inhibiting of his fighting ability... Funny how no such thing was ever mentioned how the dragon tale wasn't even referenced.. It was forgetten because it was forgettable. There's NO evidence to say Iron Fist was injured. Just that he was knocked out... But hey your speculations are total proof. Other people's conclusions drawn from multiple evidence of reference? Wild theories right? Yup.. you're one of the most hypocritical people I've ever met and all your talk about self serving logic is nothing more than your pathetic projections of yourself upon me.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You can't keep up this kind of behavior without raising eyebrows. Nothing you say has any credibility to me until I see it for myself.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And since your scanner is broken (how many times from different people have I heard that excuse before),

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
your word on your interpretation is worth spit to me. That isn't meant to be disparaging. Fact is, I've had veterans actually give me scans and outright lie to me about their content on these forums. And since you indulge in double standards, I will not give you the benefit of the doubt. Whether or not you respect my opinion is worthless to me. Whether or not I convince you is even more worthless to me. I pointed out the circumstances surrounding Junzo and Iron Fist for everyone else's benefit. We can agree to disagree on anything else. I'm not commanding you to change your opinion. It's firmly cemented, I'm just calling it like I see it and giving other people notice.

No proof exists that Iron Fist was injured before his Junzo fight.
No proof exists to say Wolverine was at 100% before his fight with Cap.

Since I can't prove a negative the burden lies on you....

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Doesn't matter. You're avoiding the main point. Tieri had a specific agenda against Punisher in his comic. This is indisputable from his interviews. Punisher was portrayed as hunting Wolverine down, even though Wolverine didn't kill any innocents and Punisher was portrayed as being a closet homosexual. Never has Punisher tried hunting other heroes down for getting in his way or been portrayed as a closet homosexual. But at no time have you ever considered Tieri's story and the outcome of the fight as being PIS. It is laughably clear that you are using self-serving logic and enjoying a clear double standard here. Ennis has admitted that he has no love for the genre, he never stated he respects or hates Daredevil. He never stated he respects or hates Wolverine. You're simply reading your own bias into the writing of the story. If it was Punisher throat jabbing Wolvie, you'd have a fair point. It wasn't. Punisher even admits that Wolverine could take him apart. You have no proof whatsoever that Wolvie got the short end of the stick pal. And your self-serving double standards are laughable. Nuff said.

Nuff said. Nuff said. Nuff said.... Yknow I really wish you had more of an argument than that but at the end of the day you simply don't.
As I stated before, you're exploring nothing more here than a red herring. I'm missing no point whatsoever, it's you failing to grasp the most simple of concepts here. When I stated that it was a Garth Ennis issue, I also stated reasons that made it PIS.. As did Srank. At no point did Ennis' mistreatment bias against superheroes become the pillar of the argument against that feat, it's simply the only point you could possibly argue against.
Tieri's run really makes no difference to this argument. But since you asked:
Tieri's Wolverine was written as a monster. He was fast enough to tag Puma, he was skilled enough to fight Omega Red and LD at the same time while powerless, and then beat Sabretooth after the injuries he sustained from the two aforementioned supers, his damage soak was off the charts as was his ability to take mental damage. practically impervious to gun fire, flamethrowers, and capible of taking mass beatings from class 100+ characters.
Had Punisher actually defeated Wolverine, it would have been a complete farce compared to his entire run. Yet in spite of motivations being innacurate to Punisher's character, he actually put up a decent fight with Wolverine. I mean CMOOONN the fight lasted the entirety of a full 21 pages of comic book and even though Wolverine was coasting in neutral even that was a stretch compared to Tieri's Wolverine. The only thing that's worth really discarding there was the insinuation that Frank was gay. And yes, Punisher has gone after other superheroes, never with an intention to kill but he's done it. Amazing Spiderman's round robin for instance.

The difference here? Simple. Punisher wasn't written at a specific level by Tieri and then shat on in single instances, Tieri actually wrote Punisher up to match Wolverine for a full comic (or Wolverine down a bit), likewise there's the fact that Punisher's fights with Wolverine in the past don't discount that Wolverine is fully capible of beating Punisher or getting the uper hand... he's done it to Punisher already, he's done it to opponents far greater than Punisher in every category as well and as you've said Punisher's admitted inferiority.....
With Ennis?.. There was a clear representation for Wolverine's damage soak as well as what Punisher and hence Ennis thought he could take... Feats before and after the strike are >>>>> in terms of damage soak... What happened when Ennis needed Wolverine out of the way?
All the sudden one strike puts Logan on the ground grasping at his own throat unable to get back up. It wasn't consistent with what Logan's taken to the throat/neck area and been fine with in the past, and it CERTAINLY wasn't consistent with Ennis' own interpretation of what Logan can take either... 😐 THAT'S what makes it PIS, the fact that Ennis harbors some unatural hatred towards superheroes just cements the fact that he has no problem mishandling them outright.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And for goodness sake, stop using crossovers. I'm tired of repeating the rules to you. If you go to the rule section, DC vs Marvel is actually cited specifically: "Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!)."

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Do yourself a favor and before debating again, read the damn rules. Nuff said.

So tell me, does it help with the lonelyness at night? Being sorrounded by all those strawmen you build in your spare time?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Indisputably? You compare Aunt May knocking out SPiderman to Daredevil temporarily putting Wolverine down with a nerve strike? Your credibility is taking a nosedive here buddy. 😂

The "level" or "severity" of PIS doesn't matter.. PIS is PIS regardless of what level it's at. Given all the times Wolverine's taken far more traumatic injuries to the throat and kept fighting or ignored it, given Ennis' representation of his HF before and after the strike... it's nothing more than P....I....S.... 😐

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
People have done worse to Wolverine's back. People have done worse to Wolverine's forearms. Yet, through precise damage, Elektra and Cap have temporarily disabled Logan.

And this is exactly what I was talking about earlier.. I already dismantled these pieces of "evidence"..... The Elektra feat contradicts the DD one. The Cap feat is inadmissable against a Wolverine who isn't 100% or anywhere close to it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
IDLI, IDH does not become PIS when there are other examples that support the concept in question.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Show it to me then. If I've crossed the two instances in my mind, sue me. Otherwise show me these precise boken strikes on Wolverine. Put up or shut up.

Wolverine (classic version before the bone claw era advnaced mutation and upgraded healing factor, 1982) drugged with poison designed to kill him awakes and attests that he barely made it through the drugs, he awakes hurting "like blazes", even so he takes 3 strikes hitting lethal/paralysing nerve clusters, possibly a forth, wipes his face and attacks, he continues to take 4 powerful blows and STILL is shown fighting back. This single feat indisputably discounts DD's 4 times over.
1. http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6344/43317653nd9.jpg
2. http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/707/56560613iq3.jpg
3. http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/770/95343672pg0.jpg
4. http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7767/46660397kk2.jpg
5. http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9242/55679963nh9.jpg

And as for your demand to put up or shut up.. I find this highly amusing as I already have... I've supplied multiple examples that discredit the DD throat jab by an extreme degree...

1. Mystique slices Wolverine's throat while Wolverine's been chasing after her nonstop 3 days with no food nor sleep, blown up at least several times and shot to shit... it does nothing:
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5880/86392439vs0.jpg

2. Wolverine gets his throat cut by X-23 his reaction is to toss her on her ass and threaten her life.
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9162/x236uo5.png

3. Second fight with Shingen. Shingen swings his sword down on Wolverine's neck, Wolverine grabs the blade and draws Shingen in for the kill:
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1732/wolvieii7cw8.jpg

4. Wolverine's incinerated from head to toe, as he's writhing on the ground Typhoid cuts his throat with a huge knife. Wolverine bats her away for her troubles and pounces after her:
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8233/typhoidmary3xc0.jpg

5. Kitty Pride uses a katana blade to puncture write through Wolverine's neck it does nothing:
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/863/kittypride3po2.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4199/kittyprideagainzr3.jpg

6. Spiderwoman throws Wolverine to the ground and stabs him in the neck with his own claws.. we all know how much that did for her:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4961/spiderwomantj3.jpg

7. Wolverine takes a sword strike to the side of his neck from a student of Shingen's it pushes him into berserker mode:
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/1448/wolverinebrage2wb6.jpg

8. Wolverine having already fought Mr. X's personalized army (who stated to have shot Wolverine, burned him, and stabbed him, as well as a panel of him weathering an explosion) and then fought with his high ranking assassins, simply mills about with a knife jabbed through his throat, only to pull it out and use it as a weapon:
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3485/spotsxsarmy18tv1.jpg

9. Wolverine's been stabbed with a sword from Gorgon the force of which was so great it embedded him into a concrete wall, he's still talking, and as soon as the sword is pulled out, he's up on his feet and after Gorgon.
1. http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7180/swordpryle5.jpg
2. http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4007/swordpry2ji3.jpg

10. Wolverine discusses how he and Sabretooth trade blows that would kill a dozen men over.
1. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8356/death0lt1.jpg

And those are just a few examples of that which I could bring even more impressive by leagues.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He fought against Cap and Elektra. Neither have embarassed him in three panels. Show me Elektra disabling Daredevil in three panels. Proof, Jinzin. Proof.

Proof? eh? Let's see so far you've got plausibility, neglect, ignorance, but I've yet to see much proof.... but I'm the hypocrite.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Jrodslam already sufficiently explained the circumstances of the fight. Fact is, Typhoid Mary was affecting DD and not only that, Wolverine only got him in the full-nelson AFTER Daredevil expressed surprise at the revelation. Hence distraction. Spin it however you want. Your reasoning is both self-serving and hypocritical.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. It absolutely makes no sense. You've stated that he neither ate nor rested the entire time between 'House of M' and his fight with Cap. It's utter garbage.

What makes no sense here, is that you think that a writer who had Wolverine get up from being reduced to a skeleton, get up from a nuke, stand up to everything that DP could throw at him, and had Wolverine swing a feat completely 180 of the one you're trying to support didn't write Logan's HF down when Logan was admittedly at a low point in his story....

It makes no sense that Wolverine who'd been so focused and driven that he didn't eat or sleep past a point he could remember simply 180'd after he got to the Weapon X facility....

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Inject your opinions all you want and spin it however it makes sense to you personally.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Fact is, your theory is pathetic.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And the plain presentation of his journeys around the world lend absolutely no credence to your inane theory.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Until your scanner comes back up, we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It was a napalm/sonics bomb designed for Venom. You have no proof it was a nuclear warhead. No proof whatsoever..

Yeah except for that "on-panel" stuff you like to blab about so much.... lmao

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/4296/nukebm9.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're right. This isn't up for debate. Your theory is the wildest concoction of hyperbolic myth that I've ever had the pleasure of busting.

Or that the opportunity was there... No shit!

You know this is getting downright sad, for all the proof you demand, all the bravado you display, and all the trash you talk you've yet to do anything to porve your case.. That DD dropping Wolverine with a throat strike wasn't a big heaping pile... The fact that you need to draw on red herrings like asking for an interview I may not be able to locate, or insisting that Wolverine was 100% when he fought Cap is downright ridiculous.

Hyborbole? Ummm no...

Every possible piece of evidence lies to the fact that Wolverine was worn.
It's in his character to neglect food and sleep when he's focused. He did it for three days while chasing mystique through a desert that inhibits his HF to begin with. In Origins and Endings he states that he's been holding out giving validity to support that his self neglect is in fact intentional.
At no point does Wolverine change his attitude about this situation. At no point does he take r&r since HOM ends. His HF is noticeably different than what Way usually writes it, and Ways latest arc with him is directly addressed to showing how impressive Wolverine's healing factor infact is. Then we got the point that it doesn't help that the Cap feat was completely discredited issues later....

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/6592/cyberqu4.jpg
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8505/cyber2wy2.jpg

And this is all while Wolverine was "weak" according to Azrael missing half of his soul....

You've busted nothing.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What low showing? Wolverine got brought to his knees by a precise nerve strike to the throat by an extremely competent martial artist.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Indeed, Daredevil probably has the most feats among Marvel martial artists with pressure points. My best retort is pointing out that you are ready to call PIS only when it suits your position for Wolverine,

I know that's your best retort, all your other retorts have been a big steaming pile thus far so it's only logical that you'de retreat to such an excuse.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
EVEN THOUGH the same logic could be thrown back in your face and used against Wolverine. Ennis with a general bias towards superheroes makes DD vs Wolverine PIS. But Tieri with an agenda against Punisher specifically does not make Wolverine vs Punisher PIS. Double-standards are lame.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Couldn't be more wrong. Read the intro to Wolverine #37 again. It specifically states that Wolverine had been in hiding for weeks before he confronted Silver Samurai in Japan. So he didn't wake up at the end of 'House of M' and go straight to Japan. He obviously was gathering himself to go and figure out his plans for revenge. So right off the bat, you're wrong. Again. After Canada, Wolverine met with connections, retrieved supplies on-panel twice, had three different changes of clothes, sat in his hideout, got onto trains, planes, automobiles, oh my! He had more than enough time to eat and sleep and recover. And your wild theorizing and misreading of the arc does nothing to change how utterly wrong and laughable your theory was. Nuff said.

Well that certainly cements that you've got comprehension problems.. Yeah the issue states he's been in hiding for weeks... Does it state his condition? NO...

Does Wolverine state his condition? YES...
"I've held out as long as I can".
"I'm THAT hungry"
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/2619/weakendcu9.jpg

How long can Wolverine hold out? Well at the very LEAST 3 days.
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/126/nofoodle1.jpg
of which include time spent AFTER being blown up:
http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nofood2he2.jpg

in a desert environment that inhibits his HF in the first place.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6551/howhfworksuj5.jpg

He was taxed to the point of a blackout in Origins and Endings. It really doesn't matter when, all that matters is that he was taxed before the Cap fight and it effected him DURING the Cap fight.

And too insinuate that just because he had time to sleep means that he must have during a time when Logan was being hounded by government agencies all over the world is just kinda... dumb...
There's a reason he went into hiding in the first place, and a reason he'd purposely hold out on sleep. What's more likely needing to be awake and alert because you don't know if "they" are hot on your trail or taking a snooze just because you can?

"Logan changed his clothes, and travelled he must have slept he must have ate he must have been at 100% beyond all evidence to the contrary. It totally makes more sense to catch a snooze when you're being hunted by "them" anyways, not like Wolverine was purposely holding out, not like Wolverine has a much stronger HF before and after the Origins and Endigns arc into the Cap fight.... Jet lag? What's that?"

Yeah.. Nuff said indeed.

I have to give credit where credit's due

jinzin has definitively proved with that post that a nerve strike to Logan's throat SHOULDN'T hamper him in the least

good job, jinzin