Wolverine vs. Daredevil - H2H

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
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Wolverine was trained by Ogun A man so skilled that by nature of that skill alone developed a mastery over the human body that made him immortal and practically impervious to pain. He survived for hundreds of years with out aging a day, could be run through by a sword with out any ill effect and could kill a water Buffalo with a casual open hand slap. He could read minds and transfer bodies. He developed a training method that aloud him to impart years of knowledge to his students in days if not hours. Ogun was the very reason that Stick sent Elektra to retrain Wolverine after he lost his humanity.

Ogun > Stick

I think you should read 238 again. There was never a point when the "child" (who was a lady by the way) was safe and Daredevil "thrashed" Sabretooth. Sabretooth slit the girl's throat and DD got mad, tackled him from behind and hit Vic twice. Matt asked Creed why he did it, Creed basically said he could help himself and then left of his own volition... and Matt was too injured to go after him. When the fight ended DD was trashed, his costume was torn to shred and he was too injured to continue fighting, while Sabretooth on the other hand was fine; and that was three upgrades ago and before any of his back story was developed.

Daredevil is slower than Wolverine. Not more agile enough to matter. By his own admission has sense inferior to Wolverine.

EDIT: Sense of smell anyway.

Originally posted by Soljer
Owned with 'da knowledge'.

😂

✅

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
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Wolverine was trained by Ogun A man so skilled that by nature of that skill alone developed a mastery over the human body that made him immortal and practically impervious to pain. He survived for hundreds of years with out aging a day, could be run through by a sword with out any ill effect and could kill a water Buffalo with a casual open hand slap. He could read minds and transfer bodies. He developed a training method that aloud him to impart years of knowledge to his students in days if not hours. Ogun was the very reason that Stick sent Elektra to retrain Wolverine after he lost his humanity.

Ogun > Stick

I think you should read 238 again. There was never a point when the "child" (who was a lady by the way) was safe and Daredevil "thrashed" Sabretooth. Sabretooth slit the girl's throat and DD got mad, tackled him from behind and hit Vic twice. Matt asked Creed why he did it, Creed basically said he could help himself and then left of his own volition... and Matt was too injured to go after him. When the fight ended DD was trashed, his costume was torn to shred and he was too injured to continue fighting, while Sabretooth on the other hand was fine; and that was three upgrades ago and before any of his back story was developed.

Daredevil is slower than Wolverine. Not more agile enough to matter. By his own admission has sense inferior to Wolverine.

EDIT: Sense of smell anyway.

Um, lol.

"could mentally drain life energy from another person into his own body, thereby killing that person, causing the victim's body to dissolve. It is not known what other mental powers Stick possessed."

Selene style. Do tell what good being impervious to pain does when your life essence is drained? None. And btw, I was referencing martial arts ability. Ogun > Stick...*sigh*

Actually you should read #238 again. Never paid much attention to the female; always assumed it was a child by appearance:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/7/71/Daredevil_238.jpg/300px-Daredevil_238.jpg

Um, the only reason Sabretooth even touched DD was because he was *protecting* her. Once she was out of harm's way, what happened? Am free to provide quotes and accurate descriptions of the fight panels. DD CRUSHED Sabretooth. Sabretooth didn't even land another lick.

Daredevil is NOT slower than Wolverine. Hand speed, kicks, punches, reflexes. Call that "quickness" as I generally use "fast" to describe straight line speed. Writers used to always reference Wolverine's additional weight as a result of the adamantium melded to his skeleton.

Yeah, DD's slow. LoL.

http://semanticdrift.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/daredevilfnf1.jpg

Yeah, DD's slow. LoL.

http://www.geocities.com/marvel_villain/paladin/daredevil152.jpg

Wolverine was NEVER originally conceived to be ultra-quick. Archangel matched him in H2H. ARCHANGEL. Spidey dances around him. Yeah you'll get some writers that take creative liberty and push the envelope, but Wolverine was designed to take a tremendous amount of punishment, not AVOID it.

I was specifically referencing DD's hearing and sense of touch. Taste goes to Wolverine, quoting Uncanny #173 when he fainted after being poisoned - but the poison used was incredibly well-masked.

And DD was hurt because he took the damage on PURPOSE. He was trying to DISTRACT Sabretooth and even said so. Need the exact quote?

Not agile enough to matter? LoL. Ever see Wolverine *consistently* bouncing off of flagstaffs, awnings, etc when jumping out of a window? No. What amazing feats of agility is Wolverine consistently characterized as doing? Wolverine's a tank, not a ballerina.

"Daredevil is a superb athlete and gymnast, the best in the Marvel Universe, possessing extraordinary agility, endurance, skill and balance. Because a person's sense of balance is linked with their sense of hearing (similar to the way that taste is linked with the sense of smell), Daredevil's superhuman hearing also grants him superhuman balance. He has been known to run across and even jump up and down on hydro wires. This 'super balance' enhances Daredevil's acrobatic skills beyond even what a highly skilled but sighted athlete would possess."

I don't buy that best in Marvel Universe - or even best on Marvel earth, for that matter. I think Beast should be better.

So much for "da knowledge." LoL.

Originally posted by Never
Um, lol.

"could mentally drain life energy from another person into his own body, thereby killing that person, causing the victim's body to dissolve. It is not known what other mental powers Stick possessed."

Selene style. Do tell what good being impervious to pain does when your life essence is drained? None. And btw, I was referencing martial arts ability. Ogun > Stick...*sigh*

The hell?
Stick didn't even do that by himself... And he died from the result.
The "victim dissolving"? Yeah I bet that did hanve anything to do with the fact that he was fighting the HAND when he did it. 😐

Originally posted by Never
Actually you should read #238 again. Never paid much attention to the female; always assumed it was a child by appearance:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/7/71/Daredevil_238.jpg/300px-Daredevil_238.jpg

Originally posted by Never
Um, the only reason Sabretooth even touched DD was because he was *protecting* her. Once she was out of harm's way, what happened? Am free to provide quotes and accurate descriptions of the fight panels. DD CRUSHED Sabretooth. Sabretooth didn't even land another lick.

Originally posted by Never
Daredevil is NOT slower than Wolverine. Hand speed, kicks, punches, reflexes. Call that "quickness" as I generally use "fast" to describe straight line speed. Writers used to always reference Wolverine's additional weight as a result of the adamantium melded to his skeleton..

Originally posted by Never
Yeah, DD's slow. LoL.

http://semanticdrift.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/daredevilfnf1.jpg

Yeah, DD's slow. LoL.

http://www.geocities.com/marvel_villain/paladin/daredevil152.jpg

Originally posted by Never
Wolverine was NEVER originally conceived to be ultra-quick. Archangel matched him in H2H. ARCHANGEL. Spidey dances around him. Yeah you'll get some writers that take creative liberty and push the envelope, but Wolverine was designed to take a tremendous amount of punishment, not AVOID it.

Originally posted by Never
And DD was hurt because he took the damage on PURPOSE. He was trying to DISTRACT Sabretooth and even said so. Need the exact quote?

Originally posted by Never
Not agile enough to matter? LoL. Ever see Wolverine *consistently* bouncing off of flagstaffs, awnings, etc when jumping out of a window? No. What amazing feats of agility is Wolverine consistently characterized as doing? Wolverine's a tank, not a ballerina.

Originally posted by Never
So much for "da knowledge." LoL.

"That's not a girl it's a child"
"Daredevil CRUSHED Sabretooth"
"Horseflies are too fast for me to see, Wolverine's slow"
"You can't train yourself to better your reflexes"

yikes... 🙄

Originally posted by jinzin
And Archangel never fought Logan except once. One instance in which Wolverine was battered, with a barely working healing factor, drugged, and forced to fight a mind controled Arky in a situation where he wasn't even trying to hurt Warren.

Just read that one recently too. Been going over several Jubilee related comics. and I found an odd one in a Wolverine Comic I don't understand... Its during the arc with the hunter in the darkness where Sabes is claiming to be Wolvie's father, and Deathstirke it there.

One frame has a guy in a crowd say "That's a familiar looking costume, but aren't you supposed to be dead?" To jubilee... 😐

Originally posted by Never
"could mentally drain life energy from another person into his own body, thereby killing that person, causing the victim's body to dissolve. It is not known what other mental powers Stick possessed."

An ability that killed him and he had help with when it was preformed. Hurray? 😕

... and why do you always quote bios? Stop.

Originally posted by Never
Selene style. Do tell what good being impervious to pain does when your life essence is drained? None. And btw, I was referencing martial arts ability. Ogun > Stick...*sigh*

Ogun doesn't have a corporeal form, which makes Sticks ability useless... even if he could do it on his own with out it killing him.

But since you where just talking skill: Ogun trashed a horde of ninja easily in the span of a few seconds. Stick kamikaze'd himself with Shaft to kill - what? - two score of hand ninja? Ogun is more skilled than Stick. After all Ogun was the equal of Miyamoto Musashi 400 years ago.

Originally posted by Never
Um, the only reason Sabretooth even touched DD was because he was *protecting* her. Once she was out of harm's way, what happened? Am free to provide quotes and accurate descriptions of the fight panels. DD CRUSHED Sabretooth. Sabretooth didn't even land another lick.

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The fight started before they where anywhere near the woman. They fight started on a roof top and moved to that location by happenstance (read: plot device). Sabretooth landed several hits on Daredevil before they got to where the girl was being held. He even grappled with him... and for some reason... while he was digging his claws into Matt's chest... decided NOT to eviscerate him... or tear out his throat. Sabretooth left of his own volition after Matt called him out on his motivation. Sabretooth was fine. Matt was too injured to after him. That was Sabretooth three upgrades ago and pre anything resembling character development.

Originally posted by Never
Daredevil is NOT slower than Wolverine. Hand speed, kicks, punches, reflexes. Call that "quickness" as I generally use "fast" to describe straight line speed. Writers used to always reference Wolverine's additional weight as a result of the adamantium melded to his skeleton.

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Wolverine is faster than Daredevil anyway you want to look at it. Land speed. Reflexes. Combat speed. Straight line speed. Wolverine is just plan faster than Matt.

'Nuff Said.

Originally posted by Never
Yeah, DD's slow. LoL.

http://semanticdrift.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/daredevilfnf1.jpg

Yeah, DD's slow. LoL.

http://www.geocities.com/marvel_villain/paladin/daredevil152.jpg

Being slower than Wolverine doesn't translated into being slow.

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Nice examples by the way. A cover and like the most low key speed feat preformed by any street level hero. Did you try to find the most unimpressive examples you possible could, or did it just happen that way?

Originally posted by Never
Wolverine was NEVER originally conceived to be ultra-quick. Archangel matched him in H2H. ARCHANGEL. Spidey dances around him. Yeah you'll get some writers that take creative liberty and push the envelope, but Wolverine was designed to take a tremendous amount of punishment, not AVOID it.

😕

Wolverine was originally intented to by a mirror image of Spider-man physically with claws instead of webbing and heightened senses in the place of the spider-sense. He was bouncing around the Hulk like a jack rabbit in his first appearance.

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I see you aren't very knowledgeable in x-men lore, but don't worry because I'm happy to educate. At the time in which Wolverine "fought" Archangel, Logan was in the worst shape of his life. For years after he was Crucified by Pierce and the Reavers (Uncanny 244) Wolverine was in horrific shape. In fact in Uncanny X-Men 275 (three issues after the Wolverine vs. Archangel "fight" you referenced) Wolverine was described as "a shadow of his former self... [who's] life force remains sustained solely by an indomitable will"

And Archangel is superhuman across the board, his feathers sent a shock to the nervous system what would instant;y end the fight against someone with out massive superhuman durability or a healing factor... and they where tethered together for the fight.

Originally posted by Never
I was specifically referencing DD's hearing and sense of touch. Taste goes to Wolverine, quoting Uncanny #173 when he fainted after being poisoned - but the poison used was incredibly well-masked.

Wolverine also has a superhuman sense of touch. He stated he can feel each individual bead of sweat in every pore on his body. DD has an advantage in hearing, but it isn't a huge gab.

Originally posted by Never
And DD was hurt because he took the damage on PURPOSE. He was trying to DISTRACT Sabretooth and even said so. Need the exact quote?

It will be difficult since that quote doesn't exist...

Originally posted by Never
Not agile enough to matter? LoL. Ever see Wolverine *consistently* bouncing off of flagstaffs, awnings, etc when jumping out of a window? No. What amazing feats of agility is Wolverine consistently characterized as doing? Wolverine's a tank, not a ballerina.

Wolverine's kept up with both Matt and DD while they run the thief's highway, and he's shown himself quite sufficient at it during his solo adventures in Madripoor. He has plenty of agility feats. He doesn't do them as consistently as Daredevil because he Logan jumps form the roof of a ten story building... he'll be fine. He also tends to use a form of transportation that isn't a grapple line, which severally limits the moments that call for the agility feats you mentioned... but it doesn't change the fact that he has them.

Originally posted by Never
"Daredevil is a superb athlete and gymnast, the best in the Marvel Universe, possessing extraordinary agility, endurance, skill and balance. Because a person's sense of balance is linked with their sense of hearing (similar to the way that taste is linked with the sense of smell), Daredevil's superhuman hearing also grants him superhuman balance. He has been known to run across and even jump up and down on hydro wires. This 'super balance' enhances Daredevil's acrobatic skills beyond even what a highly skilled but sighted athlete would possess."

Another quote from a bio... awesome...

🙄

DD for the win.

Wolverine 8/10

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
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Wolverine was trained by Ogun A man so skilled that by nature of that skill alone developed a mastery over the human body that made him immortal and practically impervious to pain. He survived for hundreds of years with out aging a day, could be run through by a sword with out any ill effect and could kill a water Buffalo with a casual open hand slap. He could read minds and transfer bodies. He developed a training method that aloud him to impart years of knowledge to his students in days if not hours. Ogun was the very reason that Stick sent Elektra to retrain Wolverine after he lost his humanity.

Ogun > Stick

I think you should read 238 again. There was never a point when the "child" (who was a lady by the way) was safe and Daredevil "thrashed" Sabretooth. Sabretooth slit the girl's throat and DD got mad, tackled him from behind and hit Vic twice. Matt asked Creed why he did it, Creed basically said he could help himself and then left of his own volition... and Matt was too injured to go after him. When the fight ended DD was trashed, his costume was torn to shred and he was too injured to continue fighting, while Sabretooth on the other hand was fine; and that was three upgrades ago and before any of his back story was developed.

Daredevil is slower than Wolverine. Not more agile enough to matter. By his own admission has sense inferior to Wolverine.

EDIT: Sense of smell anyway.

I wouldn't go that far to say he's better then Stick. First of all he lives a lot and even comes back. But Stick has shown to come back too.

Ogun has lived a long time but experience doesn't always make the greatest fighter on earth it helps. But not necessarily greater as Thor has more experience then most but doesn't mean he's as good as Daredevil.

Also Ogun mentioned he mastered the the 13 styles. Which is impressive Batman himself has stated to master more IIRC.

And last he stalemated Logan and in the end Logan defeated him. In one of there bouts were Logan gave him praise for being capable of bringing down a water buffalo. Logan goes into bezerker rage and Ogun again admits defeat in that fight.

Daredevil has also stalemated Logan to even put him down.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I wouldn't go that far to say he's better then Stick. First of all he lives a lot and even comes back. But Stick has shown to come back too.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Also Ogun mentioned he mastered the the 13 styles. Which is impressive Batman himself has stated to master more IIRC.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And last he stalemated Logan and in the end Logan defeated him. In one of there bouts were Logan gave him praise for being capable of bringing down a water buffalo. Logan goes into bezerker rage and Ogun again admits defeat in that fight.

Logan beating Ogun when in a berserker rage doesn't detract from Oguns skill, as Logan transcends from a near peak human with great fighting ability prone to CIS into a nearly unstopable, clearly superhuman wrecking ball.
Stick, nor DD, nor Iron Fist would fair much better against a berserkered Wolverine, but that doesn't detract from their skill.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Daredevil has also stalemated Logan to even put him down.

Right so were saying that Wolverine is better than Stick?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Yeah, but Thanos backhanded Cap unconscious during one of his patronizing speeches. That's a feat in a league of its own. smoke

I never said he was the friggin' Hulk's equal or anything of the sort. He definitely ain't on human level though. That adamantium, being as tough and dense as it is, has to weigh a freakin' ton. No, not literally, Zone. I don't buy it when Marvel's stats bill Wolverine at 300lbs with the adamantium-- it just sounds like a thrown out number. It's not like he's being anchored down by it, but it does weigh him down. Try running around with a backpack full of books. Sure, you can do it just fine, but you're not gonna be nearly as fast.

All this time, Wolverine's shown some impressive displays of strength WHILE having to lug around the extra weight from his skeleton (the elevator feat comes to mind). That should say a lot about his strength.

I'm pretty sure Jinzin's got a few examples of each in his Wolverine Respect thread... (No charge for the plug, Jinzin.) Remember, Logan's been without both for a while after Magneto ripped the adamantium out of him, Alf.

Let's say you're right, though....

*pause for uproar of laughter*

... Wolverine is still more skilled than Daredevil, and would still likely get a speed increase.

Anyway Wolverine wins. I remembered that he actually still has enhanced reflexes. If he gets used to not having a Hf then he wins.

Don't agree about hiim getting a speed advtange but the point is moot.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Right so were saying that Wolverine is better than Stick?

Doubt full plus Logan defeated Ogun as Ogun admitted to it. Logan never has defeated DD.

And no the getting him in a nelson is not a "defeat".

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Doubt full plus Logan defeated Ogun as Ogun admitted to it. Logan never has defeated DD.

And no the getting him in a nelson is not a "defeat".

Actually it is a defeat since he was unable to get out of it until wolverine let him out. The key word is let.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Doubt full plus Logan defeated Ogun as Ogun admitted to it. Logan never has defeated DD.

And no the getting him in a nelson is not a "defeat".

It's certainly a superior showing.

In that same regard Wolverine has never berserkered out on Daredevil before.

And on top of that Ogun's never been as easily handled before.

No one's saying Wolverine>Stick in martial prowess, but to suggest DD>Ogun is laughable.

Daredevil knocks single bullets back at shooters and dodges full auto fire.

How exactly is Wolverine faster than him?

Originally posted by Wavemaninawe
Daredevil knocks single bullets back at shooters and dodges full auto fire.

How exactly is Wolverine faster than him?

because wolverine has dodge point blank attacks coming from cyclops eyes. Do the math. It take superhuman speed to pull that one feat off alone.

In regards to Wolvie getting DD in a full nelson, i cant really count is as a Wolvie "victory". However, i will say that eventhough he did have DD in the hold, DD wasnt thinking straight due to his connection with typhoid. Wolvie even stated that. Something like "Men cant think straight when they get around her....". Something like that.

DD has also dodged a blast from Cyke. Its really amazing the stuff DD has dodged over the years. I honestly dont see Wolvie as being faster than DD in a fight. Id almost bet the farm that it would be much harder for Wolvie to hit DD than vise versa. Now before anyone says "But wolvie cant hit him cause of the claws!!!", im talking about pure h2h. No claws. Just my opinion.