Wolverine vs. Daredevil - H2H

Originally posted by jrodslam
DD has also dodged a blast from Cyke. Its really amazing the stuff DD has dodged over the years. I honestly dont see Wolvie as being faster than DD in a fight. Id almost bet the farm that it would be much harder for Wolvie to hit DD than vise versa. Now before anyone says "But wolvie cant hit him cause of the claws!!!", im talking about pure h2h. No claws. Just my opinion.

Wolverine have more high end speed feats then dd. Theres nothing on panel proving that dd is faster or even comparable to wolverine with speed but speed isnt the deciding factor in this fight because both will be hitting each other. This fight is going to be based off skill and in that dept wolverine would get a good majority.

Originally posted by jinzin
It's certainly a superior showing.

In that same regard Wolverine has never berserkered out on Daredevil before.

And on top of that Ogun's never been as easily handled before.

No one's saying Wolverine>Stick in martial prowess, but to suggest DD>Ogun is laughable.

Considering he held his own against a Logan that defeated Thing and Namor. I find that irrelevant. Also Ogun was lucky in the fight that Wolverine beated him handily in beserk he didn't use his claws. Logan was using his claws on DD.

Didn't suggest DD is greater then Ogun. Just that for the circumstances he looks the better as in Ogun hasn't proven to be greater then Stick was my point.

Originally posted by carver9
Wolverine have more high end speed feats then dd. Theres nothing on panel proving that dd is faster or even comparable to wolverine with speed but speed isnt the deciding factor in this fight because both will be hitting each other. This fight is going to be based off skill and in that dept wolverine would get a good majority.

Does he? It can be argued. Nothin on panel proving that DD is even comparable? Maybe Wolvie saying "Hes fast. Ill give him that.". Speed IS a deciding factor, because the less you get hit, the better for you. Yea, im sure they will be hitting each other, but its a known that DD is hard to hit. Even by ppl with superhuman speed. Yea this fight would be based off skill, however speed and agility also play a huge factor.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I wouldn't go that far to say he's better then Stick. First of all he lives a lot and even comes back. But Stick has shown to come back too.

Stick fought a group of Hand Ninja with Shaft, Stone, Daredevil and Blackwidow and he had to pull a kamikaze with Shaft) to win the encounter. Ogun solo'd a comparable number of assailants in a few seconds without sustaining any injury.

They are both extremely skilled, but Ogun is clearly superior IMO.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Ogun has lived a long time but experience doesn't always make the greatest fighter on earth it helps. But not necessarily greater as Thor has more experience then most but doesn't mean he's as good as Daredevil.

True enough.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Also Ogun mentioned he mastered the the 13 styles. Which is impressive Batman himself has stated to master more IIRC.

It's a pretty ambiguous statement. He says he is a master of thirteen styles but what does that mean? Say he is a master of kenjutsu (which he is), well okay, that's one style... but how many different schools of kenjutsu are there and how many is Ogun proficient in? Same thing with styles like jujutsu, karate, taekwon-do and kung-fu, all of which encompass many different styles/schools in amongst themselves. Or maybe he is a super awesome grandmaster in thirteen styles and only counts those. Who knows?

Batman was referenced as having knowledge of 127 styles... we don't know how many he mastered.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And last he stalemated Logan and in the end Logan defeated him. In one of there bouts were Logan gave him praise for being capable of bringing down a water buffalo. Logan goes into bezerker rage and Ogun again admits defeat in that fight.

Ogun was trying to teach Wolverine control and restraint. I got the impression that losing to Berserk Wolverine was the whole goal of the training exercises. He was trying to teach Wolverine to walk "the swords edge."

... Berserk Wolverine is a force of nature anyways.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Daredevil has also stalemated Logan to even put him down.

I'd address this again but you'll just ignore everything I say again. So instead I'll just say this: No.

Considering he held his own against a Logan that defeated Thing and Namor.

Thats not that impressive if you think about it, namor and thing are bricks whereas daredevil is a martial artist.

Also Ogun was lucky in the fight that Wolverine beated him handily in beserk he didn't use his claws.

Ogun and daredevil are on completely different pages when it comes to skill and martial arts. Lets put it like this, if wolverine was trained by daredevil instead of ogun, wolverine wont be close to where he is now in marvel and thats one of the best martial artist on the planet.

Just that for the circumstances he looks the better as in Ogun hasn't proven to be greater then Stick was my point.

Ogun has mastered fighting styles that stick might not ever even heard of. He was already versed in almost every fighting style on the planet but he then began to learn styles that was forgotten by men and mastered them. He would walk over stick if they fought.

Originally posted by carver9
because wolverine has dodge point blank attacks coming from cyclops eyes. Do the math. It take superhuman speed to pull that one feat off alone.

Storm has done that too.

When was it ever stated that Cyke's optic blasts are faster than bullets?

I'm new here so I'm not entirely familiar with the rulebook of this place. At CBR where I usually hang out there is a rule that in order for someone to be considered 'bullet timer', they have to be fast enough to respond after the bullet leaves the barrel of a gun. It has to be blatantly obvious too. Anything else is considered 'aim dodging'.

Originally posted by Wavemaninawe
When was it ever stated that Cyke's optic blasts are faster than bullets?

When it was stated they move at light speed?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
When it was stated they move at light speed?

Who mentioned anything about light speed?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Who mentioned anything about light speed?

Originally posted by carver9
because wolverine has dodge point blank attacks coming from cyclops eyes.

Originally posted by Wavemaninawe
When was it ever stated that Cyke's optic blasts are faster than bullets?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
When it was stated they move at light speed?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Who mentioned anything about light speed?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8887/cyclopsspeedoflightlb1.jpg

Originally posted by Creshosk

Lol. Wow. Thanks Cresh, but we all know thats bull. Cykes optic blasts travel at lgiht speed?

But if Wolvie is faster than light, then DD is as well, lol.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Lol. Wow. Thanks Cresh, but we all know thats bull. Cykes optic blasts travel at lgiht speed?

But if Wolvie is faster than light, then DD is as well, lol.

😕

...

You don't need to be faster than light to avoid the optic blasts, you need to be faster than Cyclops.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
😕

...

You don't need to be faster than light to avoid the optic blasts, you need to be faster than Cyclops.

🤨

So then what was the point of Cykes optic blasts even being mentioned? Not saying that it was you who brought it up. Id have no doubts that both Wolvie and DD are faster than Cyke. Optic blasts shouldnt even be in this discussion.

Moving on......

Originally posted by jrodslam
🤨

So then what was the point of Cykes optic blasts even being mentioned? Not saying that it was you who brought it up. Id have no doubts that both Wolvie and DD are faster than Cyke. Optic blasts shouldnt even be in this discussion.

Moving on......

I don't know, I didn't bring it up...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Try to keep up:[/img]

I mean, i thought i was keeping up.

Again, there was no mention of light speed prior to the scan being posted. At least not that i saw. If so, can you post that statement re: lightspeed? I never knew Cykes optic blasts were considered as such hence asking the question.😬

Wolverine is not one of the best martial artists on the planet. Period. I mean...Silver Samurai is getting in your butt? Elektra is written as puncturing both of your lungs and leaving you for dead - and walking away without a scratch (save the one she LET him get to lure him in - and he admitted this)? Yeah RIGHT.

Love how fanatics try to twist things such as "Wolverine has dodged point blank attacks." You don't DODGE point blank attacks (unless you're Flash, Superman, etc). You MOVE before he fires. That's like suggesting that one can sit in front of a gun - 1 inch from your chest - and DODGE the bullet AFTER it's fired. Spiderman can *dodge* a bullet after it's fired IF HE'S FAR ENOUGH AWAY (Agent Smith style). You think Wolverine can too?

WRONG.

Wolverine MOVED before Cyclops let loose the blast. He didn't DODGE it AFTER Cyclops fired it. Fat difference.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't know, I didn't bring it up...

Lol. I know. Thats whats i was saying.

My post above goes more into that i guess.

Originally posted by Never
Wolverine is not one of the best martial artists on the planet. Period.

They have a wireless internet connection at the bridge you live under?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
They have a wireless internet connection at the bridge you live under?

Do they have requisite medical facilities in the country you were lobotomized in? Do explain his lackluster showing against that martial arts heavyweight, Silver Samurai?

Wolverine fan here. I'm not a fanboy, though.

Ever heard of ComiXforums? Marvel and DC writers pass through there. That's where we asked Dan Jurgens about Superman vs Thor (those on KMC were TRYING to tell me Superman was more powerful. WRONG).

Unless, of course, you think you know more than the writers who admit that occasionally A writer will take creative liberty? Like when they wanted Wolverine to be equal in strength to Spiderman?

Tsk

To wit, Dan Jurgens:

Posted by Dan Jurgens on Monday, February 23 2004 at 20:11:06 GMT

After numerous e-mails from friends pointing to a minor firestorm of sorts regarding my comments relating to the power levels of Thor and Superman, I thought some clarity might help.

Yes, in the exchange, I was asked if Superman was a million times more powerful than Thor. I said yes.

I also chuckled as I said it, a very important part of the response that did not translate into print. I don't blame Rich as he gave me the chance to edit the interview. Quite frankly, it never occurred to me that anyone would seriously think that statement was an accurate representation of my belief on the matter.

So... we screwed up.

Superman is NOT a million times more powerful than Thor. In my book, he is probably not even twice as powerful as Thor. Superman has more expansive powers than Thor, IMO, thanks to his vision powers, etc.

I also think they fight quite differently. Thor tends to be more of a brawny reactionary type, while Superman probably fights with a more strategic approach. Thor is more likely to cut loose with the full measure of his powers as he does not have the "dampers" on that power that Superman was raised with. Both qualities can be an advantage or disadvantage, depending on the circumstances.

If they fought ten times, neither would win all ten, or even seven, eight or nine battles, for that matter. Not anymore than the Miami Dolphins would beat the Jets ten games out of ten.

I apologize for any confusion.

DJ"

And what do you know. I ALWAYS said Superman doesn't just speedblitz people, he THINKS it through first. And a writer agreed? Who would have thunk it.

But I digress...

And let's examine this further. One of the best on the planet? I'll let you qualify that statement first by saying Top 5, Top 3...whatever.

We did this in 2004 on this forum already. Anyway...

So you're talking (in NO order) Wolverine is tops - or in COMPANY with the epitome - among:

Batroc, Black Widow, Daredevil, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, Elektra, Bullseye, Stick, Stone, Claw, Star, Ogun, Black Panther, Lady Deathstrike, KARNAK, Gamora (nope, she's not on the planet. seeing if people are playing attention), Blade, Carmilla Black, Captain America...

Let's stop there.

Off of the TOP, he's NOT better than Karnak, Black Panther, Shang Chi, Elektra, Iron Fist, Stick. Strictly martial arts abilities. Not necessarily in Hand to Hand, because if so, you drop in names like Black Widow, Captain America, and Daredevil.

Nice standup routine you've got going on.