Originally posted by Allankles
How have I sugar coated things, I've mentioned his abilities in accordance with the feats he's performed over his history. A cursory glance at his respect thread will confirm most of the things I've sated. Making commentary is redundant. Totally uneccessary considering we've already covered it with others. It's just compels people to write more than is necessary for an actual debate. Anyone with less bias can confirm these feats, most of them in the respect thread.Which subjects? He used his power to create constructs that had Glactus reeling. Nothing to do with his subjects or his resources. He didn't use tech or ships, just his own power.
First of all Darkseid wasn't trying to hurt Galactus directly with the Omega Effect. Unlike your hero, DS has several ways of dealing with people. In his encounter with Galactus he was trying to send Galactus into a different time and place where he would be ineffectual and harmless. Galactus resisted the reality warping.
Plenty of character have fallen to Supes and will continue to do so as his power increases. You're making a poor - and quite frankly - tired old argument. Regardless, the most current DS (DONG and the follow up Countdown) has been far above Supes in power and continues to be behind the things affecting the DCU. DS's own prophet was able to hurt the Spectre and send him reeling. That's the mark of a skyfather.
For the purposes of reenforcement I'll repeat myself.
Bending reality and affecting mutliple personal realities for people even gods. Resurrecting people at will. Acquiring the power of countless pantheons of Gods for millenia. Mindraping and dominating millions of daxamites. Controlling time and space at will.
Erasing beings from existence, such that even their loved ones forget they ever existed. Manipulating the Source (one of the fundamental universal expressions of energy), an aspect of the Presence. You hyped Yuga for manipulating the source, you have to have power to do this i.e. the soul fier project, anti-life entity, these are representations of power.
Control of the Anti-Life entity. Projecting Avatars capable of fighting top tiers. Creating herald level beings out of nothing. Creating heralds that can bust up teams of top tiers (Mantis, Brimestone, Validus etc).
Depowering top tiers at will. He empowered Jimmy with the combined might of the new gods and took that power away. He took away Mordu's power. He's taken away the time trappers power, Kalibak etc. Creating enormous ships with but a fraction of his power. He's entire history indicates he's a skyfather. But Quanchi's word is law right? roll eyes (sarcastic)
So DS who can create Surfer like beings is supposed to be impressed by knocking out said beings? Really fighting has nothing to do with his skyfather powers and abilities.
You fail to grasp the meaning of, [b]character's history
These feats concern DS actual history which was my stance in the first place. Talking about when and how DS accomplished these feats (especially without proper context) doesn't do much for your top-tier argument, now does it? Focus Quanchi. Are the feats representative of Skyfather level power or not? That is the crux of the argument because at the end of the day they are all attributed to Darkseid.He's bent time to accelerate a new gods growth. He's controlled space to teleport people with his Omega Beams anywhere he wills, to different dimensions or even different points in history.
No that's not how it works. You also have to have context for the Orion situation, remember the Source empowering Orion in DONG? Yeah, he faced an Orion who had been amped to equal him in power. Furthermore an exploding planet doesn't work like a fight in comics, you should know that.
Unless the character can manipulate reality like Darkseid, I don't see how their power would actually matter. Not to mention PIS plays a role when you're dealing with heroes the company isn't about to have erased from existence. So forgive me if I don't oblige you in another silly mini argument.
Of course, another lame justification to cover your clear bias. Yuga wasn't even as powerful as DS was in DONG. DS had the power to completely dominate the Source, Yuga did not. DS power was acquired through his knowledge of the Soul Fire equation, so it may not have been "straight up"but knowledge is power.
He's had full knowledge of the ALE in the past, check the respect thread.
Double standards much? DS has wrecked top tiers himself. So I don't see what you're trying to say. And even if I consent to use your criteria I have DONG and majority of Countdown and now final crisis. DS isn't even about wrecking top tiers in those stories, they are nothing but pawns to be played. [/B]
You are missing context with many of these feats is the point and actually crediting Darkseid with alternate reality feats as well. That doesnt fly no matter how badly you want it to. I have all the new gods runs,and probably more darkseid comics than you yourself possess. The problem with getting your information from respect threads is the fact that you are missing vital information of what happened before and after a situation.
Km did a fine job and his new respect thread is epic. i dont have the time to wade through that giant respect thread and nor do I want to especially when considering I have many darkseid comics on my own pc.
Darkseid has power over his planet. The reason he was able to do that in his defense was because of their location. Outside Apokolips he doesnt have the advantage of using his whole planet against anyone. Even though he had all of apokolips at his disposal he still got crushed.
Regardless,of your personal opinion of what he was trying to do with the omega effect it failed. Whatever he intended had no effect on Galactus. That much no one can dispute.
Supes does beat many powerful characters. But,there are many characters he hasnt beaten straight up. Prime comes to mind. Monarch is another character Superman could never defeat imo. Superman has never defeated Orion but he has beaten darkseid. Food for thought.
Darkseid is still a schemer,but he still fails and so far really hasnt even achieved an objective for long.
You just restated everything I already addressed. What a complete waste of time restating the same old bs.
What feats does Stayne have that puts her up there with the likes of the Silver Surfer? Go ahead and state your case. Every skyfather I know about is a badass in combat,but your acting like it doesnt matter here for Darkseid. Another excuse. You seem to have a lot of them when exaggerating darkseid to be anything other than a top tier.
With regards to the gds feats. Here the rules.
No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.
A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).
This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed
It doesnt count sport.
Which new god did he do this to? Which new god did he accelerate his growth and in what storyline? His omega beams can go across dimensions but can also be fooled by a fake Supergirl death. They can be blocked by WW's bracelets. They can be deflected by Superman's heat vision. Raker created an energy bubble construct around Darkseid's head cutting off this option.
Nice job dodging the issue number. You keep dodging questions and continue to be very vague when you describe these events.
The point is Galactus' durability is much greater than darkseid's. Of course there wont be an exploding planet. Galactus's durability is well above darkseid's. Doomsday took him out in a few panels.
😛
Nice dodge. The point is Darkseid has never taken out anyone near Thanos' level before. Superman has even resisted the omega beams. Its not even full-proof against top tiers.
I never said Yuga was as powerful as darkseid was in dong. I said Yuga manipulated the Source under his own power while darkseid benefited from the set of circumstances around him. This shouldnt be hard for you to follow along brah. Dont put words in my mouth because I clearly have a solid grasp of what I read.
Darkseid stole power from the Source. He amped himself up. Yuga didnt need to amp himself. Yuga is a lot more powerful than Darkseid. Its a fact.
Darkseid didnt retain full knowledge of the ale. So,your point?
Which top tiers? Which top tiers has Stayne wrecked? The point is Darkseid can beat a top tier,but he also lose against one. Thats the point.
In countdown darkseid looked pretty equal to Superman until he used olsen. Then he straight up lost in combat to his son.
Darkseid's plans sure backfired. Checkmate.
