Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what? Why don't you think anything can pierce Kratos now?
Based on the stuff he's pulled off, i.e. the PSI he's had to deal with when Cronos attempted to crush him between his palms, and Zeus trying to cut Kratos with the BoO.
Cronos - 2:50
YouTube video
Zeus - 7:04 onwards
YouTube video
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixZeus can cut him with the blade and him gathering up the strength needed to resist being crushed isn't the same thing as being as durable as a diamond.
Based on the stuff he's pulled off, i.e. the PSI he's had to deal with when Cronos attempted to crush him between his palms, and Zeus trying to cut Kratos with the BoO.Cronos - 2:50
YouTube videoZeus - 7:04 onwards
YouTube video
Originally posted by quanchi112
Zeus can cut him with the blade and him gathering up the strength needed to resist being crushed isn't the same thing as being as durable as a diamond.
Key word being "can", which implies that it is possible, but not certain...i.e. Zeus won't cut Kratos every single time he tries to strike Kratos, as proven in the video.
Also, Cronos must have generated enough PSI to reduce Diamonds to powder when he tried to crush Kratos. It's not just a strength feat.
It's like you trying with all your might to crush an ant between your palms, only for the ant stop your palm.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixYes, only because he is trying to resist. My point was never he cuts him everytime my point was always Kratos can be sliced open he just needs to avoid it and kill him first.
Key word being "can", which implies that it is possible, but not certain...i.e. Zeus won't cut Kratos every single time he tries to strike Kratos, as proven in the video.Also, Cronos must have generated enough PSI to reduce Diamonds to powder when he tried to crush Kratos. It's not just a strength feat.
It's like you trying with all your might to crush an ant between your palms, only for the ant stop your palm.
Yes, because if Kratos was like a diamond then he wouldn't need to resist. he used his strength to do so but the creators weren't sitting there saying he can probably lift 40,000 tons easily. Like I said earlier it's about common sense. Sure Kratos is stronger than Raziel but if raziel slices him it's going to hurt.
Yes, if the ant did so it was due to strength otherwise his body alone couldn't stop a person trying to do so.
That's true, but only if Raziel is close to Zeus' level when it comes to strength...which he isn't.
Not really. If he was like a Diamond, and he didn't try to resist, he'd get crushed. His body also has to be able to withstand the enormous Force and PSI that Cronos generated. Strength alone won't cut it. You have to be incredibly durable as well.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixWhere do you come up with this stuff?
That's true, but only if Raziel is close to Zeus' level when it comes to strength...which he isn't.Not really. If he was like a Diamond, and he didn't try to resist, he'd get crushed. His body also has to be able to withstand the enormous Force and PSI that Cronos generated. Strength alone won't cut it. You have to be incredibly durable as well.
Raziel doesn't need to have his strength to pierce Kratos. I still favor Kratos in this matchup but for you to act like he can't pierce him it borders the borderlands of bad logic.
No, if he was like a diamond he wouldn't need to resist. he exerted his strength and fought his finger away long enough to blind him through Helios' head.
Forces have opposite/equel reactions, Kratos taking the force of Cronos' hands is incredible PSI across his body, strength "stopped" the hand but the force and strength of Cronos still passes through Kratos' hands, making him nigh invulerable to harm.
Me and Bloodrain figuires are getting close to 20k tonnes of PSI before being divided across the square inches of Kratos' hands, it "may" be just about possible for Raziel to scratch Kratos, only just....
Originally posted by quanchi112
Where do you come up with this stuff?Raziel doesn't need to have his strength to pierce Kratos. I still favor Kratos in this matchup but for you to act like he can't pierce him it borders the borderlands of bad logic.
No, if he was like a diamond he wouldn't need to resist. he exerted his strength and fought his finger away long enough to blind him through Helios' head.
I don't come up with this stuff. It's called physics, the laws of which we assume operate similarly in GoW verse and our world.
BT explained it in the previous post.
Yes he does. If someone isn't strong enough to cut through something with a sword, it simply won't happen even if you are given a super-sharp sword (the result will be slightly better with the super-sharp sword).
Denying this is stupidity that borders on insanity.
The hell? I'm talking about when Cronos tried to crush Kratos with his palm, not with his fingers. Watch the video. 😐
If someone isn't strong enough to cut through something with a sword, it simply won't happen even if you are given a super-sharp sword (the result will be slightly better with the super-sharp sword).
Originally posted by BloodRain
Kratos can stop something like the Wraith Blade?...... what's the Wraith Blade? ~,~
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The Wraith Blade is Raziel's weapon. DP was saying Kratos can stop it like he's stopped others like it.
Pretty much. I'm assuming it could be stopped by Kratos, since it physically hurts enemies and pretty much functions like a normal physical sword.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Been trying to explain this to him.
Knowing Quanchi, he'll probably just dismiss it and instead try to attribute things to "common sense." haermm
Originally posted by Burning thoughtIt's one incredible strength feat with no real numbers assigned to it. We know Kratos is stronger than Raziel but we can't definitively say how much so. I think it's a large gap but this has nothing to do with his durability.
Forces have opposite/equel reactions, Kratos taking the force of Cronos' hands is incredible PSI across his body, strength "stopped" the hand but the force and strength of Cronos still passes through Kratos' hands, making him nigh invulerable to harm.Me and Bloodrain figuires are getting close to 20k tonnes of PSI before being divided across the square inches of Kratos' hands, it "may" be just about possible for Raziel to scratch Kratos, only just....
The way the character is portrayed is very important which dp seems to all but ignore. The answer by busiek has him pegged as one of those spiderman fans who insist spider amn juggle buicks while dismissing how sipderman is portrayed consistently just like he's dismissing how Kratos is being portrayed in favor of one incredible feat.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixYou're dismissing what previously hurt Kratos and how he's portrayed in favor of one feat which if we take your word for it most characters he can just smash or crush with his brute strength alone yet that's not how he's portrayed in the game at all.
I don't come up with this stuff. It's called physics, the laws of which we assume operate similarly in GoW verse and our world.
BT explained it in the previous post.Yes he does. If someone isn't strong enough to cut through something with a sword, it simply won't happen even if you are given a super-sharp sword (the result will be slightly better with the super-sharp sword).
Denying this is stupidity that borders on insanity.The hell? I'm talking about when Cronos tried to crush Kratos with his palm, not with his fingers. Watch the video. 😐
When has Kratos been unable to be pierced or hurt by an enemy with a sword? We see him have to actively resist these attacks or he dies.
Even at his power most powerful at the end of gow 1 we see in part 2 Ares can kill him if he doesn't dodge his strike.
Originally posted by quanchi112You're dismissing what previously hurt Kratos and how he's portrayed in favor of one feat which if we take your word for it most characters he can just smash or crush with his brute strength alone yet that's not how he's portrayed in the game at all.
When has Kratos been unable to be pierced or hurt by an enemy with a sword? We see him have to actively resist these attacks or he dies.
Even at his power most powerful at the end of gow 1 we see in part 2 Ares can kill him if he doesn't dodge his strike.
Yes, because it is common knowledge that VG characters typically tend to get stronger as we progress in the story. Saying Kratos can be pierced because he was pierced by a thrown pillar early on in his life is stupid. By that logic, someone like Dante is always susceptible to common knives, despite the fact that he probably tanks stronger weapons later on.
Not really. He takes tons of attacks from the Gods without dying. They hurt him, yes, but he still doesn't die. However, Raziel is strong, but I don't think he is as strong as say, Zeus or Hercules. So it's hard to say if Raziel can wound him if he strikes Kratos.
Hell, one or two users here believe that Kratos can be pierced by a charging Centaur. 😐 He still doesn't die after he's pierced by the Centaur attack, and he doesn't even have a wound after the impalement.
Even more astounding, is that a near dead Kratos was able to survive BoO impalement from Zeus for one or two minutes.
I don't get you. Ares is dead in Part 2, and God Kratos (the form of Kratos at the end of GoW1 - beginning of GoW2) hasn't been beaten by anyone as far as we know. He had to be weakened first via Zeus' power transfer ability, and then the Power Drain aspect of the BoO.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixKratos would have to avoid the attack. We saw him at his most powerful be able to be slaughtered by Ares so you saying he grows stronger is all fine and dandy but even at his strongest he can still be killed or pierced in giant form.
Yes, because it is common knowledge that VG characters typically tend to get stronger as we progress in the story. Saying Kratos can be pierced because he was pierced by a thrown pillar early on in his life is stupid. By that logic, someone like Dante is always susceptible to common knives, despite the fact that he probably tanks stronger weapons later on.Not really. He takes tons of attacks from the Gods without dying. They hurt him, yes, but he still doesn't die. However, Raziel is strong, but I don't think he is as strong as say, Zeus or Hercules. So it's hard to say if Raziel can wound him if he strikes Kratos.
Hell, one or two users here believe that Kratos can be pierced by a charging Centaur. 😐 He still doesn't die after he's pierced by the Centaur attack, and he doesn't even have a wound after the impalement.
Even more astounding, is that a near dead Kratos was able to survive BoO impalement from Zeus for one or two minutes.I don't get you. Ares is dead in Part 2, and God Kratos (the form of Kratos at the end of GoW1 - beginning of GoW2) hasn't been beaten by anyone as far as we know. He had to be weakened first via Zeus' power transfer ability, and then the Power Drain aspect of the BoO.
Raziel doesn't need to be as strong to pierce Kratos he needs to be as strong to win a test of strength or resist fighting over a sword like Kratos has done so in the past.
Kratos has never been this unpiercable character. It's just not the way they set him up. He's a highly skilled warrior who is very strong who needs to defeat you in battle via the application of his skills,strength, and strength not because he's impenetrable.
Yes, Ares is dead but when you battle the sisters of fate they take you back to the moment where you fight Ares. if they destroy the sword Kratos dies but if you prevent her from doing so history repeats itself and the sword is there when he needs it.
Kratos at the end of part 1 wasn't unbeatable he was just the better fighter than ares.
Yeah, because Ares was a God, while Raziel is as far as I know, weaker than Ares in statistical terms. If this were a story, I'd totally understand Raziel beating Kratos, but it's not. It's something of a combat simulation.
Also, in GoW, Kratos needs the PB to beat Ares, yet by the time of GoW 3, he's taking on and defeating the gods without the PB.
Okay, so you think Raziel has to be strong enough to win a contest of strength with Kratos, or a fight for a sword with Kratos?
I never said he's an unpierceable warrior. What I, and others are saying, is that based on the durability he's demonstrated, it'll either be impossible, or extremely hard for Raziel to hurt Kratos with a sword.
Not unless Raziel's wraith blade is enchanted so that it can hurt whatever it strikes, which I don't think is the case.
The whole Ares killing him bit is non-canon and never happened. Yes, Ares can kill him, I'm not denying that. But Raziel isn't Ares or Zeus, or Poseidon, or Hades (well, he has a Soul Rip like Hades, but it's banned in this fight I think)
Oh. I thought you were talking about the God Kratos shown in the GoW 2 Intro.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixBecause he still had the power of pandora's box. Ares was still strong enough to kill Kratos before he received the power of Pandora's box yet still strong enough to kill him with it because Kratos isn't the uber durable character you have him mixed up to be.
Yeah, because Ares was a God, while Raziel is as far as I know, weaker than Ares in statistical terms. If this were a story, I'd totally understand Raziel beating Kratos, but it's not. It's something of a combat simulation.
Also, in GoW, Kratos needs the PB to beat Ares, yet by the time of GoW 3, he's taking on and defeating the gods without the PB.Okay, so you think Raziel has to be strong enough to win a contest of strength with Kratos, or a fight for a sword with Kratos?
I never said he's an unpierceable warrior. What I, and others are saying, is that based on the durability he's demonstrated, it'll either be impossible, or extremely hard for Raziel to hurt Kratos with a sword.
Not unless Raziel's wraith blade is enchanted so that it can hurt whatever it strikes, which I don't think is the case.The whole Ares killing him bit is non-canon and never happened. Yes, Ares can kill him, I'm not denying that. But Raziel isn't Ares or Zeus, or Poseidon, or Hades (well, he has a Soul Rip like Hades, but it's banned in this fight I think)
Oh. I thought you were talking about the God Kratos shown in the GoW 2 Intro.
If they lock swords and are simply trying to overpower the other one yes but if they are just swordfighting Raziel is more than able to cut him or keep him off guard with his tk abilities.
If you played the game you'd realize raziel's soul reaver just like Kain's physical soulreaver are the baddest weapons out of the entire games so of course they pierce him.
The point is it could happen not that it did happen. Kratos has always been able to be cut and acting as if he isn't when facing someone with a weapon like the soulreaver is just misguided.
No he did not. 😐 He only had Hope, which wasn't unlocked until after he had killed the rest of the gods.
And Raziel is somehow as strong as Ares is in Giant Form amirite?
drylaughSo because they are the baddest weapons in the LoK series, they can cut Kratos?drylaugh
That's faulty logic. If Raziel is strong enough, he won't have problems cutting Kratos. My question is: Is he strong enough? BT and BR say it might be possible, but until they confirm he can cut Kratos, I'll say Raziel cannot cut him.
Raziel does not have the Soul Reaver, not in the strictest sense. Have YOU played the games?