Raziel vs Kratos

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No he did not. 😐 He only had Hope, which wasn't unlocked until after he had killed the rest of the gods.
And Raziel is somehow as strong as Ares is in Giant Form amirite?

drylaughSo because they are the baddest weapons in the LoK series, they can cut Kratos?drylaugh
That's faulty logic. If Raziel is strong enough, he won't have problems cutting Kratos. My question is: Is he strong enough? BT and BR say it might be possible, but until they confirm he can cut Kratos, I'll say Raziel cannot cut him.

Raziel does not have the Soul Reaver, not in the strictest sense. Have YOU played the games?

No, I never made that claim. My point was even at Kratos' strongest he didn't win because he was beyond ares he won because he fared better in combat.

Who has failed to cut Kratos? I mean seriously what games are you playing here. Can Kratos just stand there and let his enemies wail on him despite being far weaker with the lackluster weapons they have on them? Nah. The point is he has to be better in combat. You have no common sense whatsoever. You don't get how these characters are portrayed at all.

Yes, I have. He does have the spectral soul reaver you ignoramus. Kain has the physical soul reaver. Now what is raziiel revealed to be at the end of defiance to actually be? Wow. Such ignorance.

I always liked the term "ignoramus". 🙂
Hm, shouldn't the skeletal enemies be breaking themselves against his body, then?

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was still powerful enough to kill the gods and was always powerful enough ever since he challenged them after part 1.

No, I never made that claim. My point was even at Kratos' strongest he didn't win because he was beyond ares he won because he fared better in combat.

Who has failed to cut Kratos? I mean seriously what games are you playing here. Can Kratos just stand there and let his enemies wail on him despite being far weaker with the lackluster weapons they have on them? Nah. The point is he has to be better in combat. You have no common sense whatsoever. You don't get how these characters are portrayed at all.

Yes, I have. He does have the spectral soul reaver you ignoramus. Kain has the physical soul reaver. Now what is raziiel revealed to be at the end of defiance to actually be? Wow. Such ignorance.

None of which is suggested to be due to Pandora's box. He also has to drain all his Godly powers into the BoO in GoW2 to combat the Colossus, so yeah. After that power drain, he's just like he was at the start of GoW 1.

Not really. The weaker enemies hurting Kratos is pretty much just a gameplay restriction. What actually happens in the cutscenes and the mini-games (those which Kratos typically wins) is considered canon, not gameplay.
You have Kratos struggling to lift doors in gameplay, whereas he can engage in, and win contests of strength, with guys who can lift the floor of a rather large arena, in canon.
It's as absurd as OoT Link failing to open a door (dunno if that was non-canon or not), yet he's able to toss a huge stone quite a large distance among other strength feats.
You really need to make the distinction between gameplay restrictions and canon before spouting off random bull-crap. Then again, please don't, it's much more lolzy that way.

Once again, how characters are portrayed is of little consequence in a fight here on KMC.
Let me walk you through it 'kay?
"In this corner, we have Duke Nukem. A badass mofo who shoves his foot up the asses of his enemies and defeats armies of aliens by himself. In the other corner, we have Bowser, a creature who has regularly been bested and made to look like a fool by a plumber who can jump high. Who'll win this epic brawl between the two?

Round 1: FIGHT!
WOOOOOAAAAH! Bowser WTFKO's Duke Nukem in one shot.
Yeah, that's how it would be in a KMC fight. The fact that you haven't realized the rules here on KMC after 3 years, shows me that you are the ignoramus, not me.

As is, you are completely ignorant of the word logic, and, equally ignorant of feats.
Whatever thread you debate in is pretty much guaranteed to go to pot, because you don't actually debate. Your modus operandi consists of stating your worthless biased opinion, and re-stating said biased opinion in response to any logical arguments that are made in opposition to your opinion. All while acting like you have won the debate. Debates here need proof and logical arguments, and you fall terribly short in both categories.

The Soul Reaver is the Blood Reaver + Raziel's Soul. Raziel doesn't carry around the Blood Reaver, he only carries around the 'Raziel's Soul' part, which is the Spectral/Material Reaver.
Kain used to carry the Soul Reaver, but after his altercation with Raziel in SR1, he lost the Soul Reaver. Raziel was left with the Wraith Blade, which is Raziel's soul itself, not the Soul Reaver. At the end of Defiance, Raziel merged his Wraith Blade (Raziel's Soul) with Kain's Blood Reaver to give Kain the Soul Reaver. Geddit?
It's like saying Hydrogen (H2) is Water (H2O), despite it being otherwise.

Wow. Such incredible stupidity. Then again, why am I surprised? You are, after all, a rabid troll with a huge ego and a severe lack of intelligence & understanding.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Once again, how characters are portrayed is of little consequence in a fight here on KMC.
Let me walk you through it 'kay?
"In this corner, we have Duke Nukem. A badass mofo who shoves his foot up the asses of his enemies and defeats armies of aliens by himself. In the other corner, we have Bowser, a creature who has regularly been bested and made to look like a fool by a plumber who can jump high. Who'll win this epic brawl between the two?

Round 1: FIGHT!
WOOOOOAAAAH! Bowser WTFKO's Duke Nukem in one shot.
Yeah, that's how it would be in a KMC fight.

That's a KMC Nintendo wanked fight. In a real KMC fight, Duke Nukem fires a charged Pulse Cannon shot and vaporizes Bowser's ass.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
That's a KMC Nintendo wanked fight. In a real KMC fight, Duke Nukem fires a charged Pulse Cannon shot and vaporizes Bowser's ass.

Dude, I made it a boxing match 😐

EDIT: My bad for not stating it explicitly.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
None of which is suggested to be due to Pandora's box. He also has to drain all his Godly powers into the BoO in GoW2 to combat the Colossus, so yeah. After that power drain, he's just like he was at the start of GoW 1.

Not really. The weaker enemies hurting Kratos is pretty much just a gameplay restriction. What actually happens in the cutscenes and the mini-games (those which Kratos typically wins) is considered canon, not gameplay.
You have Kratos struggling to lift doors in gameplay, whereas he can engage in, and win contests of strength, with guys who can lift the floor of a rather large arena, in canon.
It's as absurd as OoT Link failing to open a door (dunno if that was non-canon or not), yet he's able to toss a huge stone quite a large distance among other strength feats.
You really need to make the distinction between gameplay restrictions and canon before spouting off random bull-crap. Then again, please don't, it's much more lolzy that way.

Once again, how characters are portrayed is of little consequence in a fight here on KMC.
Let me walk you through it 'kay?
"In this corner, we have Duke Nukem. A badass mofo who shoves his foot up the asses of his enemies and defeats armies of aliens by himself. In the other corner, we have Bowser, a creature who has regularly been bested and made to look like a fool by a plumber who can jump high. Who'll win this epic brawl between the two?

Round 1: FIGHT!
WOOOOOAAAAH! Bowser WTFKO's Duke Nukem in one shot.
Yeah, that's how it would be in a KMC fight. The fact that you haven't realized the rules here on KMC after 3 years, shows me that you are the ignoramus, not me.

As is, you are completely ignorant of the word logic, and, equally ignorant of feats.
Whatever thread you debate in is pretty much guaranteed to go to pot, because you don't actually debate. Your modus operandi consists of stating your worthless biased opinion, and re-stating said biased opinion in response to any logical arguments that are made in opposition to your opinion. All while acting like you have won the debate. Debates here need proof and logical arguments, and you fall terribly short in both categories.

The Soul Reaver is the Blood Reaver + Raziel's Soul. Raziel doesn't carry around the Blood Reaver, he only carries around the 'Raziel's Soul' part, which is the Spectral/Material Reaver.
Kain used to carry the Soul Reaver, but after his altercation with Raziel in SR1, he lost the Soul Reaver. Raziel was left with the Wraith Blade, which is Raziel's soul itself, not the Soul Reaver. At the end of Defiance, Raziel merged his Wraith Blade (Raziel's Soul) with Kain's Blood Reaver to give Kain the Soul Reaver. Geddit?
It's like saying Hydrogen (H2) is Water (H2O), despite it being otherwise.

Wow. Such incredible stupidity. Then again, why am I surprised? You are, after all, a rabid troll with a huge ego and a severe lack of intelligence & understanding.

Yes, he wins due to his skills, etc. he can't just stand there and win by them not being able to hurt him. Use common sense please.

Dude, Raziel wielded the soul reaver just like Kain did. It wasn't a completely powerful soulreaver like at the end of the game where Kain won but it was the soulreaver nonetheless. The soulreaver was the only weapon that could kill Kain which he wielded. this is explained in the game you ignoramus. He ripped his heart out and as the scion of balance survived because the only way to kill him while wielding the soul reaver was raziel. Raziel had free will and wielding the only weapon capable of stopping Kain. Get a clue.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
That's a KMC Nintendo wanked fight. In a real KMC fight, Duke Nukem fires a charged Pulse Cannon shot and vaporizes Bowser's ass.

OH SHI-

HE'S GOT SOME ALCOHOL IN THIS MOTHER!

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
youer an idfityo, bowser survies black hoels and sdhit.

TIOONM FIORECE~!!~~!~~!! 😆

Originally posted by quanchi112
He regains power throughout the course of each game and becomes stronger. LOL. Did you play the games?

Yes, he wins due to his skills, etc. he can't just stand there and win by them not being able to hurt him. Use common sense please.

Dude, Raziel wielded the soul reaver just like Kain did. It wasn't a completely powerful soulreaver like at the end of the game where Kain won but it was the soulreaver nonetheless. The soulreaver was the only weapon that could kill Kain which he wielded. this is explained in the game you ignoramus. He ripped his heart out and as the scion of balance survived because the only way to kill him while wielding the soul reaver was raziel. Raziel had free will and wielding the only weapon capable of stopping Kain. Get a clue.

He doesn't regain his old power (fueled by the Gods/PB). He gains new powers (fueled by the Titans). LOLZZ. Did you even understand the games?

Yes, he wins due to his feats of durability, etc. He can stand there and win by them not being able to hurt him (at least until you prove he can hurt Kratos via strength feats). Use common sense plox. Or better yet, use logic plox.

Raziel wields the Wraith Blade, which is a lot like the Soul Reaver, except that it is an energy weapon that lacks the (Blood) Reaver part.
Kain wielded the Blood Reaver, and then the Soul Reaver. Notice the names of the Reavers? None of Raziel's enhancements, not even the most powerful one, is referred to as the Soul Reaver. It is called the Wraith Blade as a whole, or [Light, Dark....Spirit) Reaver. No, not Soul Reaver, but SPIRIT Reaver.
Once Raziel sacrifices himself, Kain gets the SOUL Reaver.

Refer to the Water-Hydrogen analogy, ignoramus.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He doesn't regain his old power (fueled by the Gods/PB). He gains new powers (fueled by the Titans). LOLZZ. Did you even understand the games?

Yes, he wins due to his feats of durability, etc. He can stand there and win by them not being able to hurt him (at least until you prove he can hurt Kratos via strength feats). Use common sense plox. Or better yet, use logic plox.

Raziel wields the Wraith Blade, which is a lot like the Soul Reaver, except that it is an energy weapon that lacks the (Blood) Reaver part.
Kain wielded the Blood Reaver, and then the Soul Reaver. Notice the names of the Reavers? None of Raziel's enhancements, not even the most powerful one, is referred to as the Soul Reaver. It is called the Wraith Blade as a whole, or [Light, Dark....Spirit) Reaver. No, not Soul Reaver, but SPIRIT Reaver.
Once Raziel sacrifices himself, Kain gets the SOUL Reaver.

Refer to the Water-Hydrogen analogy, ignoramus.

Kratos always has had to defeat them he's never been uncuttable, unhurtable, etc. You don't understand the character or the point of the games.

Raziel says he wields the only weapon that can kill him the soulreaver. He says it in avernus when those two are fighting. They both wield the reaver and when it's combined it becomes truly badass and powerful also showing him eg.

I mean seriously did you play these games?

I said that he was able to take on the Gods in GoW 3 without the aid of Pandora's box. You replied by saying he still had the power of Pandora's Box, to which I responded "No, he only had the power of Hope, which wasn't unlocked until the end."
You then said "he was always strong enough to take on the Gods after Part 1," to which I countered by saying that he drained his godly powers into the BoO, and therefore, couldn't have the power of the PB in GoW 2/3.
Realizing that you had lost the point, but having too much of an ego to acknowledge that you had lost the point, you jumped to saying "He regains power throughout the course of each game." You even know what the word 'regains' means? It means gaining back that which you had lost. Kratos lost the powers he had as a god/PB amp. He never gained them back.
Lulz. Me putting words in your mouth? Nahh. Most of the time you debate, you have no absolutely no idea just what it is you are talking about. I don't need to put words in your mouth to make you look like a fool.

The point of the GoW games is just like the point of the other games. 😐
The point of the character is 'Awesome-power wielding dude goes on a bloody revenge filled quest to slaughter those that wronged him' 😐
Again, when did I say he's always uncuttable? Please, point it out to me.
What I'm saying is that unless Raziel is actually strong enough to cut him (which I'm leaving to BT & BR as they have yet to respond on their calcs), he won't be able to cut Kratos. You have to prove that Raziel is strong enough with feats, not with statements like "Raziel has the baddest weapon in the LoK series, so he can cut Kratos."

Yes, they both wield the Reaver. One is the Blood Reaver, the other is the Wraith-Blade. Neither are the Soul Reaver, not in the strictest sense at least. While the Wraith Blade is technically the Soul Reaver because it's the Soul Devouring aspect of the Soul Reaver, it still is not the True Soul Reaver as it lacks the Blood Reaver part.
Also, my mistake, the Hydrogen-water analogy was wrong.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I said that he was able to take on the Gods in GoW 3 without the aid of Pandora's box. You replied by saying he still had the power of Pandora's Box, to which I responded "No, he only had the power of Hope, which wasn't unlocked until the end."
You then said "he was always strong enough to take on the Gods after Part 1," to which I countered by saying that he drained his godly powers into the BoO, and therefore, couldn't have the power of the PB in GoW 2/3.
Realizing that you had lost the point, but having too much of an ego to acknowledge that you had lost the point, you jumped to saying "He regains power throughout the course of each game." You even know what the word 'regains' means? It means gaining back that which you had lost. Kratos lost the powers he had as a god/PB amp. He never gained them back.
Lulz. Me putting words in your mouth? Nahh. Most of the time you debate, you have no absolutely no idea just what it is you are talking about. I don't need to put words in your mouth to make you look like a fool.

The point of the GoW games is just like the point of the other games. 😐
The point of the character is 'Awesome-power wielding dude goes on a bloody revenge filled quest to slaughter those that wronged him' 😐
Again, when did I say he's always uncuttable? Please, point it out to me.
What I'm saying is that unless Raziel is actually strong enough to cut him (which I'm leaving to BT & BR as they have yet to respond on their calcs), he won't be able to cut Kratos. You have to prove that Raziel is strong enough with feats, not with statements like "Raziel has the baddest weapon in the LoK series, so he can cut Kratos."

Yes, they both wield the Reaver. One is the Blood Reaver, the other is the Wraith-Blade. Neither are the Soul Reaver, not in the strictest sense at least. While the Wraith Blade is technically the Soul Reaver because it's the Soul Devouring aspect of the Soul Reaver, it still is not the True Soul Reaver as it lacks the Blood Reaver part.
Also, my mistake, the Hydrogen-water analogy was wrong.

I didn't lose any points you seem to forget in every single game you start out with a lot of energy and lose it in some fashion only to power yourself up throughout the course of the game with magic and weapons. Wow.

Since you don't think he's uncuttable you agree raziel can cut him. I never said Raziel wins my point was only if he hits him he bleeds. I think you are coming around nicely.

Oh now I see despite how he is portrayed you say I have to prove Raziel is strong enough to cut him????? No, I don't because throughout the game even lower level beings can cut him so it makes perfect sense that Raziel can do so as he actually has feats other than these lower grunts and has a more impressive weapon.

No, Raziel wields the soulreaver and so does Kain. One is material and one is in wraith form. This is the only weapon that can kill him. This is cited in the game. I still remember it from 7 years ago.

I like it when you admit you are wrong to me. It feels good.

BT I summon thee to answer the riddle of the Reaver~

That should do it.
And to clarify, in GoW2 after the Rhodes fight where his powers were taken, thats the Kratos we use in threads right?

What was the riddle? ive been playing Red dead redemption and have forgotten what was going on in here lol...

I thought we just used to latest of any character, when their at their peak. So GoW3 Kratos I assume. Not sure at what stage because it seems like he gets weakened at some stages like

Spoiler:
falls in the river styx or loses energy to the blade of Olmypus

These two on about who had the Soul Reaver first, or something like that.

Only asking as after he lost the powers at the start of GoW2 he had quite a few cuts around his body. Not knowing much about the first two games of if Kratos is any different I dont want to use it till its clarified.

Originally posted by BloodRain
These two on about who had the Soul Reaver first, or something like that.

Only asking as after he lost the powers at the start of GoW2 he had quite a few cuts around his body. Not knowing much about the first two games of if Kratos is any different I dont want to use it till its clarified.

Kain had the blood reaver in the beginning of Defiance, its only the soul reaver when Raziel is imprisoned inside it at the end of the game. Raziel wields the wraith blade which is his spirit, or esentially the spirit of the reaver, their one and the same.

God of War 3 is the strongest Kratos by far, I think we only use Gow 1 or 2 Kratos if its specified in a thread.

Hope that settle that argument.

Yeah but is Kratos3 physically different from Kratos2 in that scene? Because if he's the same, he got lacerations from a bronze hand dropping on him.

He must be because Kratos 2 is weakened/damaged by the bronze hand but he had been recently weakened. He must have regained power from the Titans or the BoO by the end of the game, not sure how else he could have fought with Zeus and later other Gods/Titans in GoW 3.

Kratos from the end fight with Zeus in God of War 2 until Kratos falls down into the river styx is technically 'the same' Kratos.

Only after the River Styx part where you get weakened to base power does the 'God of War 3 Kratos' time period begin.