Originally posted by quanchi112
He did have the power to take on the gods since athena gave him newer blades and he acquired other weapons throughout the game and since he had the bot he had sufficient weapons and the skills to kill all of them. Use your head.I didn't lose any points you seem to forget in every single game you start out with a lot of energy and lose it in some fashion only to power yourself up throughout the course of the game with magic and weapons. Wow.
Since you don't think he's uncuttable you agree raziel can cut him. I never said Raziel wins my point was only if he hits him he bleeds. I think you are coming around nicely.
Oh now I see despite how he is portrayed you say I have to prove Raziel is strong enough to cut him????? No, I don't because throughout the game even lower level beings can cut him so it makes perfect sense that Raziel can do so as he actually has feats other than these lower grunts and has a more impressive weapon.
No, Raziel wields the soulreaver and so does Kain. One is material and one is in wraith form. This is the only weapon that can kill him. This is cited in the game. I still remember it from 7 years ago.
I like it when you admit you are wrong to me. It feels good.
See, Quanchi changes his original point once again 😂. First you say he had the PB powers all throughout Part 2 & 3. Then after I pwn you repeatedly, you finally switch your statement to "he gains powers throughout the games," in order to look like you've won.
Give it a rest and let's move on, I've already spanked your ass here.
You don't start out with "a lot of energy" in every game, you moronic fool. CoO & GoW do not start out in the same fashion as GoW 2 & 3 do. Once again, you fail. doped
GoW 2 involves Kratos losing his Godly Powers and then gaining powers from the Titans, while GoW 3 involves Kratos losing those powers, and gaining new powers from variable sources.
Also, you lost every point. You said he regains powers. Clearly not the case.
No, I don't think he's uncuttable against anyone who is about as strong as Zeus/Ares/Hercules. Raziel isn't one of them, as far as I know. Read slowly next time. Or better yet, use a dictionary.
Portrayals have nothing whatsoever to do with how powerful characters are on KMC. Or else Duke Nukem would beat the likes of Bowser in a fist-fight, and Wander would beat Vergil in a sword fight. Try again portrayal-boy.
Lulz lulz lulz. The Reaver (and it's derivatives) is the only weapon that can kill Kain. Kain never even mentions the word 'Soul Reaver' in their fight, and there was no need to.
There's a big difference between the Reaver & the Soul Reaver. The simple fact that you haven't realized this is proof enough that you don't just pay attention to the games, but also conjure up your own version of the games.
Then there's the fact that Kain only wields the Soul Reaver once after he breaks it over Raziel's head in SR.
Yeah, he gets the Soul Reaver near the end when Raziel willingly enters the Blood Reaver. Until that point, he only wielded the normal Reaver after saving Raziel from his fate.
Good to know. Now you know that other people aren't as mentally deficient and egoistical as you.
Originally posted by Burning thought
He must be because Kratos 2 is weakened/damaged by the bronze hand but he had been recently weakened. He must have regained power from the Titans or the BoO by the end of the game, not sure how else he could have fought with Zeus and later other Gods/Titans in GoW 3.
He never regains power from the BoO, but he does wield the BoO. Like CC said, he's essentially GoW 2 Kratos until he falls into the Styx; minus the Amulet of the Fates (which would have no place on Mt. Olympus), and his sub-weapons and magics (gameplay-only, unless Kratos somehow dumped the weapons and forgot his magics before traveling to Mt. Olympus).
GoW 2 Kratos is powerful enough to best Zeus when he's human-sized, and powerful enough to go head to head with Poseidon.
Originally posted by BloodRain
These two on about who had the Soul Reaver first, or something like that.Only asking as after he lost the powers at the start of GoW2 he had quite a few cuts around his body. Not knowing much about the first two games of if Kratos is any different I dont want to use it till its clarified.
Actually, it's whether Raziel holds the Soul Reaver or not. Quanchi stated that both Kain and Raziel did. In the strictest sense, only Kain holds the Soul Reaver, which is before he breaks it over Raziel in Soul Reaver, and after Raziel willingly enters the Blood Reaver in Defiance.
I think he only gets those cuts after the Colossus' falling hand smashes him, which was long after he placed his remaining low amount of Godly powers into the Blade.
Yeah, they are technically different.
Afaik:
CoO Kratos is GoW 1 Kratos, with the exception of the magics and weapons both versions gained. CoO Kratos loses the weapons and magics he gained after killing Persephone and restoring the Sun.
GoW 1 Kratos receives the PB amp near the end of his servitude to the gods. He then bests Ares, and ascends to Mt. Olympus to become a god.
NOTE: Hard to say if currently, he is the God Kratos shown in GoW 2, since it's possible he loses his powers again. The new game Ghost of Sparta should probably clear this up. It'll probably include Kratos losing most of the powers he gained during GoW 1, and then gaining new powers that will form the base of his powers as God Kratos.
GoW 2 Kratos is initially the God of War. After draining his godly powers into the BoO, he becomes mortal. GoW 2 Kratos then gains new powers with the help of the Titans. He then takes the BoO from Zeus, and after their skirmish, heads to Mt. Olympus and kills Poseidon. He then loses everything he gained in 2 after his swim in the River Styx.
GoW 3 Kratos begins from this point onwards.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain had the blood reaver in the beginning of Defiance, its only the soul reaver when Raziel is imprisoned inside it at the end of the game. Raziel wields the wraith blade which is his spirit, or esentially the spirit of the reaver, their one and the same.
Pretty much. Kain loses the Soul Reaver he had when he breaks it over Raziel in SR. He then saves Raziel from his fate in SR2, and he gets the Blood Reaver, which is the version of the Reaver he carries until the climax of Defiance (Raziel entering the blade to give him the Soul Reaver).
The wraith blade could technically be the Soul Reaver, since the Wraith Blade is essentially what gives the Soul Reaver its characteristic power. However, it isn't the True Soul Reaver, since the crucial Blood Reaver part is missing.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixNo, I was correct the whole time and have changed nothing. He powers himself up throughout each game after being weakened in the beginning of each game. He wasn't a big strong uber badass at the end of part 1 but he didn't need to be to beat these foes anymore.
See, Quanchi changes his original point once again 😂. First you say he had the PB powers all throughout Part 2 & 3. Then after I pwn you repeatedly, you finally switch your statement to "he gains powers throughout the games," in order to look like you've won.
Give it a rest and let's move on, I've already spanked your ass here.You don't start out with "a lot of energy" in every game, you moronic fool. CoO & GoW do not start out in the same fashion as GoW 2 & 3 do. Once again, you fail. doped
GoW 2 involves Kratos losing his Godly Powers and then gaining powers from the Titans, while GoW 3 involves Kratos losing those powers, and gaining new powers from variable sources.Also, you lost every point. You said he regains powers. Clearly not the case.
No, I don't think he's uncuttable against anyone who is about as strong as Zeus/Ares/Hercules. Raziel isn't one of them, as far as I know. Read slowly next time. Or better yet, use a dictionary.
Portrayals have nothing whatsoever to do with how powerful characters are on KMC. Or else Duke Nukem would beat the likes of Bowser in a fist-fight, and Wander would beat Vergil in a sword fight. Try again portrayal-boy.
Lulz lulz lulz. The Reaver (and it's derivatives) is the only weapon that can kill Kain. Kain never even mentions the word 'Soul Reaver' in their fight, and there was no need to.
There's a big difference between the Reaver & the Soul Reaver. The simple fact that you haven't realized this is proof enough that you don't just pay attention to the games, but also conjure up your own version of the games.
Then there's the fact that Kain only wields the Soul Reaver once after he breaks it over Raziel's head in SR.
Yeah, he gets the Soul Reaver near the end when Raziel willingly enters the Blood Reaver. Until that point, he only wielded the normal Reaver after saving Raziel from his fate.Good to know. Now you know that other people aren't as mentally deficient and egoistical as you.
In 2 and 3 you do. That's my point he gains power and then loses it in the next one when he gets wrecked like he normally does.
Thanks for restating what I just told you and trying to take credit for it.
Kratos isn't uncuttable to any of the bosses or the massive troops who take him on with no feats at all. He ca be killed if you just stand there because he's very cuttable and guess what Raziel cuts him.
Both wielded the soul reaver but not at it's optimum levels or at it's strongest. It needed to be imbued and combined to be at it's best but both did wield the soul reaver.
You saying Raziel just wields some wraith blade shows how ignorant you are. It was the only weapon capable of killing him and you act like oh it's just some worthless weapon. I am right you are wrong. Admit it again.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Actually, it's whether Raziel holds the Soul Reaver or not. Quanchi stated that both Kain and Raziel did. In the strictest sense, only Kain holds the Soul Reaver, which is before he breaks it over Raziel in Soul Reaver, and after Raziel willingly enters the Blood Reaver in Defiance.Pretty much. Kain loses the Soul Reaver he had when he breaks it over Raziel in SR. He then saves Raziel from his fate in SR2, and he gets the Blood Reaver, which is the version of the Reaver he carries until the climax of Defiance (Raziel entering the blade to give him the Soul Reaver).
The wraith blade could technically be the Soul Reaver, since the Wraith Blade is essentially what gives the Soul Reaver its characteristic power. However, it isn't the True Soul Reaver, since the crucial Blood Reaver part is missing.
Arguable, the wraith blade by itself cannot harm the EG yet Kain required the Raziels soul to harm the EG so their souls combined with the swords vampire enhancements must act as a catalyst.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I was correct the whole time and have changed nothing. He powers himself up throughout each game after being weakened in the beginning of each game. He wasn't a big strong uber badass at the end of part 1 but he didn't need to be to beat these foes anymore.In 2 and 3 you do. That's my point he gains power and then loses it in the next one when he gets wrecked like he normally does.
Thanks for restating what I just told you and trying to take credit for it.
Kratos isn't uncuttable to any of the bosses or the massive troops who take him on with no feats at all. He ca be killed if you just stand there because he's very cuttable and guess what Raziel cuts him.
Both wielded the soul reaver but not at it's optimum levels or at it's strongest. It needed to be imbued and combined to be at it's best but both did wield the soul reaver.
You saying Raziel just wields some wraith blade shows how ignorant you are. It was the only weapon capable of killing him and you act like oh it's just some worthless weapon. I am right you are wrong. Admit it again.
You've changed your points so much you have no idea you've changed them in the first place. 😂
First you tell me that Kratos had the power of the PB in 2 & 3. Then you tell me that he was always strong enough to kill the Gods after God of War 1. Then you tell me that he loses his powers and regains them back, and now you're telling me that he loses his powers and then becomes stronger.
drylaugh
Not really. I clearly stated what was the actual case, whereas you stated what was the case in only two of the games, but not the case in the other two. Try to think a little before you type something. Or simpler still; proof-read, and use the EDIT button.
By massive troops I assume you mean the weaker fodder enemies? Yeah, that's just in gameplay i.e. a gameplay restriction/limitation. Try again.
Bosses, sure. Is Raziel nearly as the strong (strength) as the gods though? You keep side-stepping the question, and bringing up laem bull-crap like "oh he's portrayed as someone who can beat tonnes of enemies." Won't work here.
WAT? The Reaver is never called the Soul Reaver, not unless it has Raziel inside it. There is no lower level to the actual Soul Reaver, at least none that would still make us call it the Soul Reaver. If the Soul Reaver lacks Raziel's soul, it is the Blood Reaver, which is remarkably different from the Soul Reaver. Are you really this obtuse?
The Wraith Blade can be considered the Soul Reaver, but it lacks the Blood Reaver part, which is why it isn't the actual Soul Reaver.
The hell? "some wraith blade?" The Wraith Blade is the actual name of his weapon you fool.
It is a form of the Reaver (which is why it can kill Kain), and is nearly identical to the actual Soul Reaver, but it still isn't the actual Soul Reaver. BT said the same thing.
When did I act like it's some worthless weapon? You resorting to such childish arguments shows me how desperate you are. Grow up, and try to actually make an argument.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Arguable, the wraith blade by itself cannot harm the EG yet Kain required the Raziels soul to harm the EG so their souls combined with the swords vampire enhancements must act as a catalyst.
True.
However, while it could be possible that Raziel's Spirit Reaver could harm the EG, I doubt he could actually defeat the EG. Besides, it was Kain's destiny to defeat the EG, so yeah, I agree with you.
That said, you agree that Raziel does not wield the actual Soul Reaver?
Originally posted by BloodRain
So that's a yes on his durability being higher then from when he got the cuts?Besides the cutability, im still trying to figure out what the hell you two are arguing about and the relevance.
Pretty much. The centaur thing is non-canon. As for weaker enemies, it is much like weak enemies actually hurting Dante, Vergil & Nero in gameplay.
My only problem with the Centaur scenario is that Kratos does not have a wound after the stab. Couple that with the fact that he does not possess regeneration in his mortal form afaik. Unless he actually possesses insta-regeneration, I say that the centaur thing is non-canon.
This is not even a debate. quanchi112 can never debate because he simply does not know how to debate. He states opinions and his own thoughts as an argument (e.g. Reaver hurting Kratos because it's the baddest weapon in the LOK series).
Rarely ever does he provide proof, and when he does, it is always accompanied by a severely biased statement.
Nearly everyone who debates against him is convinced he is a biased troll, mentally deficient, or both.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Its up in the air, as you said before Centaurs can impale Kratos in those context modes....yet Cronos cannot crush him, perhaps Kratos strength is at the extent where he can repel almost 100% of Cronos' force or something? not sure...
Make sense of this for me, nevermind, you won't be able to.
You can't have the strength to do something without having the requisite durability. Kratos cannot stop Cronos' palm smash without first being durable enough to withstand the stress to some degree. And he did not stop the force 100% as Cronos' palms were completely closed minus the little bubble where Kratos was on his knees.
The centaurs are once, more, gameplay. You aren't even SUPPOSED to get impaled by them, you are supposed to stop it before it happens, (if they even successfully manage to initate it at all). That's ideally how all the QTEs are supposed to go; successfully. Would Kratos have regeneration then too if you do get stabbed?
YouTube video
start to 00:14. That is as canon as you will get regarding Kratos' durability to piercing.
Bloodrain, and yourself will fail continuously, try as you might, to interpret the scene as differently as possible to whats going on.
The Leviathan hits kratos in the torso with the point of its leg, the impact of which knocks Kratos down to his knees. Kratos then pushes back up against the force.
He did NOT stop the intial force 100% because one, it knocks him to his knees. two, the leviathans are shown strong enough and heavy enough to completely stop a PUNCH from a multimillion ton titan in Gaia. three, he grabbed past the point of the leg, so he didn't stop the point of the leg from hitting him.
This is a strength/durability feat equal to above even pushing up Cronos' palm smash, because its a similar level of force, shrunk down to the area of the point of the leviathan's leg.
Oh I agree about the weaker enemies hurting being only gameplay, but not on the Centaur thing. Its a scripted QTE, so whether it did or did not happen the point is that's its possible for him to get stabbed. Similar to Spiderman 2, a high grunt with a bayonet/grenade launcher has an animation where he stabs Spidey in the gut, but he's fine after even with no regen. Imo its the health bar, if it actually happened then they'ed be in trouble but it can happen.
Have the urge to debate him and see what all the fuss is about `-`Now to find something we disagree on.
CC bro, already replied to the crab leg post that was left un-answered on your behalf.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Oh I agree about the weaker enemies hurting being only gameplay, but not on the Centaur thing. Its a scripted QTE, so whether it did or did not happen the point is that's its possible for him to get stabbed. Similar to Spiderman 2, a high grunt with a bayonet/grenade launcher has an animation where he stabs Spidey in the gut, but he's fine after even with no regen. Imo its the health bar, if it actually happened then they'ed be in trouble but it can happen.Have the urge to debate him and see what all the fuss is about `-`Now to find something we disagree on.
CC bro, already replied to the crab leg post that was left un-answered on your behalf.
The thing is that there are a lot of things that can happen but don't actually happen. One case being the various endings of most fighting games. Typically, only one or two are canon, while the rest aren't. Typically, a lot of the non-canon endings have feats, that due to the endings being non-canon, are non-canon as well. Which is why we don't use those non-canon endings when discussing characters.
While the scenario isn't the same, the underlying principle is. Whatever is non-canon never happened, and thus, cannot be considered possible. Not unless the OP states as such.
Then there's the fact that Kratos is considered to have 'won' each and every QTE he takes part in. If he fails certain QTE's, typically, he just gets repelled or thrown onto the ground, and has to start the whole thing over again, even if during the QTE, he stabbed something repeatedly (wounds disappear after the failed QTE, then reappear during the next QTE and so on).
But, for argument's sake, let's say that he can get stabbed by the Centaur. Even then, he's perfectly fine after the whole ordeal, aside from a dip in the Health Bar, which is just a gameplay restriction.
Shall I make a DMC Dante (Rebellion only) vs. DI Dante (Scythe only) thread? 😛
I still agree with Bloodrain on this, its scripted, its just as scripted as anything else in the cutscenes or otherwise. Something does not have to be canon to be relevant, although its not canon that a Centaur impaled Kratos, the developers have seen it fit to animate a centaur impaling Kratos.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixTrue.
However, while it could be possible that Raziel's Spirit Reaver could harm the EG, I doubt he could actually defeat the EG. Besides, it was Kain's destiny to defeat the EG, so yeah, I agree with you.That said, you agree that Raziel does not wield the actual Soul Reaver?
Well he could not strike the EG, he attempted in Defiance and it did nothing.
No he does not, he wields the wraith blade. I can see how it can be confused as being called the "soul reaver", but the actual "soul reaver" is the completed sword that Kain wields at the end of Defiance, Blood omen 2 and SR 1.
BT given what I was going to say. Even if it didnt happen its something that is certainly able to happen. On that non-canon ending, if A gets mad and beats B then even if it didnt happen we can take that A can beat B if the situation arises.
And Kratos loses a large chunk of life from the attack, much more then other attacks.
Lol Dante vs Dante? I say spite but then again him vs Kratos lasted as long as it has.
Originally posted by Burning thought
I still agree with Bloodrain on this, its scripted, its just as scripted as anything else in the cutscenes or otherwise. Something does not have to be canon to be relevant, although its not canon that a Centaur impaled Kratos, the developers have seen it fit to animate a centaur impaling Kratos.Well he could not strike the EG, he attempted in Defiance and it did nothing.
No he does not, he wields the wraith blade. I can see how it can be confused as being called the "soul reaver", but the actual "soul reaver" is the completed sword that Kain wields at the end of Defiance, Blood omen 2 and SR 1.
Did he attempt to strike the EG with the Spirit Reaver though? Meh, maybe it's only the Soul Reaver that possesses the ability to hurt metaphysical beings like the EG.
Yep.
Originally posted by BloodRain
BT given what I was going to say. Even if it didnt happen its something that is certainly able to happen. On that non-canon ending, if A gets mad and beats B then even if it didnt happen we can take that A can beat B if the situation arises.And Kratos loses a large chunk of life from the attack, much more then other attacks.
Lol Dante vs Dante? I say spite but then again him vs Kratos lasted as long as it has.
Fair enough. You both have a point, concerning the relevancy. Even if I argued about that, we wouldn't get anywhere X-D
Even then, non-canon i.e. failed QTEs in GOW make no sense at times.
Centaurs in GoW actually get their legs back instantly if we fail the QTE. 😐 I mean, do we take that as possible despite those centaurs demonstrating no regeneration whatsoever outside that particular instance? Then there are wounds which just disappear and what not after failed QTEs.
Attribute it to lazy designing, but the whole failed QTEs angle makes little sense at times.
That aside, the entire Centaur thing is also a little hazy IMO, considering:
a) Kratos has resisted stuff like the Leviathan's leg, which is still a feat. It's both a strength & durability feat. Then there's the PSI from the Cronos feat.
The only way to explain the Centaur impaling Kratos is if the Centaur is actually very strong, or the weapon is highly enchanted. Only the former can be argued for though, while the latter is just a possibility.
b) He's fine after the entire ordeal, considering the large wound such a stab should leave behind. This is as stupid as the Centaurs in GoW 'regrowing' their legs after the failed QTE, considering neither the Centaurs, nor Kratos (outside of the Hades Arms cutscene in GoW 2) demonstrate regeneration.
As for the large chunk of life bit, it's just tied to the difficulty and relative strength of the Centaur vs. other weak fodder enemies. A leg slam from Scorpius can actually OHKO Kratos on Chaos mode if it connects.
What else can you expect when we have loads of long-lasting threads that really shouldn't be long-lasting? srug
TIK - This is KMC 😛
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Did he attempt to strike the EG with the Spirit Reaver though? Meh, maybe it's only the Soul Reaver that possesses the ability to hurt metaphysical beings like the EG.Yep.
Yes I think he did, it was near the very end of the game, he had the purified final version.
Centaurs regrowing their legs is not as scripted as the animation that has Kratos hacking them off or being impaled. And the event that caused the ripping off of the leg is scripted, but failing it is not.
I think theres more happening in the Cronos scene than can be described with just "strength" vs "weight" arguments, Kratos is so light that having thousands if not tens of thousands of tonnes falling on your body cannot be spoken for, what about the friction of such a force? and Kratos' friction, surely he would have been pushed through Cronos' hands sideways like trying to grab soap.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
IMO legs coming back is a gameplay thing. Without legs the beast is useless and would make it not important if you failed the QTE or not, that and its off a basic enemy[not a boss] so it does that to make it a challenge instead of having a legless creature bleeding to death.
Made a post about the Leviathan thing, no idea where it is though. 'b' goes to the Spiderman getting gutted and living thing.
Its normal hits arnt that threatening, well not that far from lower creatures attacks, but not that one attack.
If ya did make it I'll just have to hope the bait is taken 😛