Ozymandias vs. Spiderman.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, super-powered beings don't actually exist.

"R U kidding me?

Parker doesn't fight as fast as some real world humans. Fact.

He is good at dodging...but actually fighting, he throws punches just as slow as an average joe. "

Originally posted by Robtard
I believe Ms. Marvel's point was that hitting Parker with a sword would be a but harder than punching him, do to his speed/agility. Not the other way around.

No it wouldn't.

I've already addressed that exact point.

"The blade travel's faster because of simple lever physics. Veidt has more than enough reaction advantage on Spidey. He is also much more intelligent than spidey, making the sword and ance fight more of a Chess match for Veidt.

Parker would be on the defense, the whole time.

Also, there's other blades that could be used for their advantage, too."

Veidt is faster than Parker. Fact.

Veidt fights faster than Parker. Fact.

Give Veidt an ultra light sword and he increases his striking speed even more. Fact.

childish. 🙄

Originally posted by Robtard
We don't actually know, considering Goblin's physical strength, could be faster. Like I said pages ago, if anything, it's close.

No, we know that it was much slower than bullets. Much slower.

We see Parker jump up a few feet and turn and rotate. His initial velocity, when jumping, has to be at a certain speed, in order to obtain the height in his jump that he did. We can compare the slow down in time to the height. It doesn't come any where close.

You're grasping with that point, there, Robtard. It's been many years since I've seen the film, but, I could have sworn we see them travel real time at one point, and then slow time.

Originally posted by Robtard
Then if we do apply the laws of physics, someone with enough strength to stop a speeding out of control train can generate enough force to punch through a skull 🙂

If only we had a movie feat for that. If only. 😉

Since we see how fast his punches are, we know he's not generating near enough velocity to do that.

To further that point, since we see him fight not very much faster than normal peeps, it's obvious he can't do that.

Originally posted by Robtard
He could try to block Peter's blows, they'd just shatter his arms and legs, due to the force and small area of contact, you know, physics.

I agree that he could grab Veidt and snap his bones. That'd be reasonable, because he has the strenght to do that.

However, Veidt reacts faster and that is far too unlikely to happen to begin with. Besides, Vedit is the better Martial Artist. Very unlikely that Veidt would be even remotely stupid enough to get himself caught.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
theres nothing to argue against. you havent even tried to back up anything youve said. why should i bother making any effort to do anything?

Your denying that you're wrong. That's fine.

You can do a youtube seach and find any video show martial artists fighting faster than punches or kicks Spiderman threw. I can't.

You can google search and find many martial artists names.

Why should I waste my time proving the obvious to you? You know you're wrong. Your point fell flat on its face before I responded.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
childish. 🙄

Quoting what I've already covered is not chidish. It's intelligent as it saves time. No need to rehash.

Edit- As it stands right now:

Ozy cannot win without a blade to cut Spiderman.

If someone can watch Watchmen again, see if he has a blade with him. He doesn't have to use it...he just has to have one.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, we know that it was much slower than bullets. Much slower.

We see Parker jump up a few feet and turn and rotate. His initial velocity, when jumping, has to be at a certain speed, in order to obtain the height in his jump that he did. We can compare the slow down in time to the height. It doesn't come any where close.

You're grasping with that point, there, Robtard. It's been many years since I've seen the film, but, I could have sworn we see them travel real time at one point, and then slow time.

If only we had a movie feat for that. If only. 😉

Since we see how fast his punches are, we know he's not generating near enough velocity to do that.

To further that point, since we see him fight not very much faster than normal peeps, it's obvious he can't do that.

I agree that he could grab Veidt and snap his bones. That'd be reasonable, because he has the strenght to do that.

However, Veidt reacts faster and that is far too unlikely to happen to begin with. Besides, Vedit is the better Martial Artist. Very unlikely that Veidt would be even remotely stupid enough to get himself caught.

Actually, during that scene it does that camera slow-down to illustrate Parker's super-abilities. So they very well likely been traveling at bullet speeds.

We do have movie feats of Spider-man's strength and how much force he can generate with his body. The train, the cable trolley, the metal wall, punching Goblin so he goes flying back; there are others. 😉

Even with human speeds, that amount of force is punching through. So it's moot point.

No, Veidt is out-classed, rather simple. Give him a sword, he's not hitting Parker before Parker hits him; it'd be over. This is of course taking into accoount that Parker wouldn't just web him and the blade from a distance.

Are you trolling for fun or being serious?

Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, during that scene it does that camera slow-down to illustrate Parker's super-abilities. So they very well likely been traveling at bullet speeds.

No, based on how fast he jumps up and how slow they are traveling, I can eyeball it and tell you that they are not anywhere close to bullet speed.

They'd also have to create a sonic boom which would sound like a crack, if they are traveling close to bullet speed. Also, the Goblin's arm would have broken the sound barrier and also made a loud noise, there'd also be a shock wave, visable, in slow mo.

Even if they forgot all of that, there's the simple fact that they are traveling much slower than bullets.

Originally posted by Robtard
We do have movie feats of Spider-man's strength and how much force he can generate with his body. The train, the cable trolley, the metal wall, punching Goblin so he goes flying back; there are others. 😉

But, the speed at which he generates that force is accumulated over time. It's slow.

Originally posted by Robtard
Even with human speeds, that amount of force is punching through. So it's moot point.

No, it is not. He'd have to generate enough speed to punch through. This is fact.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, Veidt is out-classed, rather simple. Give him a sword, he's not hitting Parker before Parker hits him; it'd be over. This is of course taking into accoount that Parker wouldn't just web him and the blade from a distance.

No, Veidt would outclass Spiderman in speed. Spiderman doesn't stand a chance. And, you're forgetting that Spiderman can't websling faster than a bullet. Not even close. Veidt can dodge bullets at close range. There's no hope for Parker if Veidt has a bladed weapon.

Originally posted by Robtard
Are you trolling for fun or being serious?

I was wondering the same about you.

On screen feats, only. PP cannot punch through people. Fact.

He throws punches just as slow as an average joe. Fact.

You're claiming otherwise. Fact.

Veidt has better speed feats than Parker. Fact.

Veidt's perception of time is slower than Parkers. Fact.

These points are not debatable.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Veidt could easily take several punches from Spiderman, no problem. This is fact.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
But would Spider-Man be effected by Veidt?

Nope. Not at all. Even Veidts super strenght to bust through a slab of solid Marble isn't enough strenght to damage Parker. It probably won't tickle, but it won't be enough.

This is why I say he has to have a blade.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
The guy was taking a pounding from a giant Sandman. Spider-Man has tanked Goblin's grenades at point blank range. Both are superhuman IMO. But Spider-Man when it comes to strength, durability, and a few other things is in a completely different class.

I agree on the Strength, Agility (not reaction speed, fighting speed, but Agility), and MAJORLY durability. Veidt is said to be every bit as agile as any Olympic athlete. That puts him right below Spiderman as Spiderman is above Olympic Athelete.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, based on how fast he jumps up and how slow they are traveling, I can eyeball it and tell you that they are not anywhere close to bullet speed.

They'd also have to create a sonic boom which would sound like a crack, if they are traveling close to bullet speed. Also, the Goblin's arm would have broken the sound barrier and also made a loud noise, there'd also be a shock wave, visable, in slow mo.

Even if they forgot all of that, there's the simple fact that they are traveling much slower than bullets.

But, the speed at which he generates that force is accumulated over time. It's slow.

No, it is not. He'd have to generate enough speed to punch through. This is fact.

No, Veidt would outclass Spiderman in speed. Spiderman doesn't stand a chance. And, you're forgetting that Spiderman can't websling faster than a bullet. Not even close. Veidt can dodge bullets at close range. There's no hope for Parker if Veidt has a bladed weapon.

I was wondering the same about you.

On screen feats, only. PP cannot punch through people. Fact.

He throws punches just as slow as an average joe. Fact.

You're claiming otherwise. Fact.

Veidt has better speed feats than Parker. Fact.

Veidt's perception of time is slower than Parkers. Fact.

These points are not debatable.

Dude, you jsut said you don't recall the scene well, but now you're telling me you know how fast Spider-man and the blades were travelling despite the scene being slowed because you "eye-balled it"? Going to call BS on this one, as you have no point of reference to how fast the camera was slowed.

His punches aren't "slow", he can punch at least as fast as a human, which is fast enough considering the power he'd be packing.

Spider-man dodges bullets, more than one too and while web-slinging. Be dodges both machine gun and shotgun fire, in SM2. Ergo, Spider-man can dodge a blade.

I see, the "he didn't specifically do something, so he can't do it" argument, despite him showing other greater feats that prove he could also do the lesser feat. Nice tactic, it's total BS, but nice.

Spider-man didn't do a lot of things, like lift a Honda, punch through cardboard, eat a whole wheat bagel, should we also assume he can't?

You're being a clown now.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Even Veidts super strenght to bust through a slab of solid Marble

Originally posted by dadudemon
Veidt is said to be every bit as agile as any Olympic athlete.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That puts him right below Spiderman as Spiderman is above Olympic Athelete.

Originally posted by Robtard
Dude, you jsut said you don't recall the scene well,

Correction:

No I didn't.

You're taking that out of context.

Here's what I said:

"It's been many years since I've seen the film, but, I could have sworn we see them travel real time at one point, and then slow time."

Oops

Gotta go.

I'll reply to the rest when I get back.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Veidt forcing Blake through the marble?

That makes it an even better strength feat. Is that what you're trying to indicate?

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Source?

Comics.

However, I don't have the comic.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Even [B]if Veidt was infact olympic level(which is below peak human by the way) he'd be miles away from Spider-Man in some areas. Only areas Veidt trumps Spider-Man in is in martial arts ability and intelligence. Veidt is comparable in speed and possibly superior in reaction speed. [/B]

Olympic level is peak human. And the wiki stated he was peak human...

Veidt is faster, both physically, and reaction time, than Spiderman...if we are to bo by the movies.

Originally posted by Robtard
His punches aren't "slow", he can punch at least as fast as a human, which is fast enough considering the power he'd be packing.

Nah. It's simple physics, bro.

Originally posted by Robtard
Spider-man dodges bullets, more than one too and while web-slinging. Be dodges both machine gun and shotgun fire, in SM2. Ergo, Spider-man can dodge a blade.

At a distance, while moving, from street thugs. We've been over this already.

Originally posted by Robtard
I see, the "he didn't specifically do something, so he can't do it" argument, despite him showing other greater feats that prove he could also do the lesser feat. Nice tactic, it's total BS, but nice.

Nah. We can't pull feats out of our ass. You know better.

Originally posted by Robtard
Spider-man didn't do a lot of things, like lift a Honda, punch through cardboard, eat a whole wheat bagel, should we also assume he can't?

This is when we use what's called logic. If Spiderman was seen going all out against a regular human with cybernetic arms, then we can only assume that he absolutely cannot punch through a human.

We also have how fast he was moving to also prove that.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're being a clown now.

No, it all actuality, you're being a Spiderman fanboy.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That makes it an even better strength feat. Is that what you're trying to indicate?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Comics.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Olympic level is peak human. And the wiki stated he was peak human.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I was under the impression that you were implying that Veidt punched directly through the marble. No, I was thinking the feat would be weaker because of it.

I haven't read the graphic novel. But I've heard Veidt did nothing impressive stat-wise to be considered above peak human, if that.

Dodging bullets AFTER they are fired. (There is a major difference between dodging bullets before they are fired, which is what spiderman and most everyone else does, and what Veidt did.), catching them, and simultaneously defeating in combat, two of the most skilled h2h fighters in the world...

Originally posted by Darth Martin
IBut the movies contradict this completely.

Not at all. In fact, some speculate they made Veidt stronger in the movie.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
We see him leap what looked to me like 10 feet, dodge/evade bullets to a degree, predict path/catch bullet, and display superhuman strength in knocking Rorschach multiple yards away with H2H combat manuevers.

Cool. So we are in almost an agreement here.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
So what? Wiki can be altered and changed by you and I to say whatever we so please.

Nah. I'm going with it beacuse it's written by the fans who happen to agree with me. That's what I thought from the comics. So that's what I'm sticking to. You can use a different set of parameters, I'm sticking with common perception.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
It's hardly reliable when it comes to [B]these kinds of things. Olympic level isn't Peak human if we're going by books or wiki. Peak human usually means superior to any olympic level athlete who has ever competed on record. [/B]

Nah. I got my idea from the comics. I could have sworn they talked about him being peak human, activating all of his brain, etc.

No, peak human is at the best of human ability. Peak human would be an Olympic athlete. Peak human is just that: peak human. In fact, several superhereos are listed as peak human when they are not at the ceiling limit for peak human, yet are still considered that way for strength.

Where are you getting your idea of peak human from? (It's wrong, btw. But you obviously got it from somewhere.)

And, busting someone's head through the marble is certainly a lot harder than doing it outright. Here's why: The Comedian is not a solid object like a block of steal. He's flesh and blood. Lol. His flesh would have absorbed some of the blow, so he would have to have struck him harder than required to break it.

Like I said, I haven't read the book. Just going by what I hear. If the Veidt's feats on film were even remotely accurate to there potrayal in the book then I'd agree that he's above peak human.

Originally posted by dadudemon
In fact, some speculate they made Veidt stronger in the movie.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Cool. So we are in almost an agreement here.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Where are you getting your idea of peak human from? (It's wrong, btw. But you obviously got it from somewhere.)

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Like I said, I haven't read the book. Just going by what I hear. If the Veidt's feats on film were even remotely accurate to there potrayal in the book then I'd agree that he's above peak human.

From what I can tell, he is stronger and more durable than in the film. Other than that, he's spot on.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Bingo. That's what this nerd here speculates. 😉 👆

AHA! 😆

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I joined KMC because of the CBVF.

That's cool.

But, peak human isn't nevessarily peak human potential, as we see several examples of charaters that are considered peak human strength that are not the full 800lbs.

What do you think. Agree?

Originally posted by dadudemon
But, peak human isn't nevessarily peak human potential, as we see several examples of charaters that are considered peak human strength that are not the full 800lbs.

What do you think. Agree?

You can be peak human in a certain area and not in the others. For example, Daredevil is atleast peak human in agility but might not be in other categories. Same goes for Nightwing.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
If were regarding comic books then I have top disagree. Regardless of what the handbooks sayt we see feats by characters all the time that contradict them. For example, the handbooks state Cap's maximum capacity is 800lbs. Yet we've seen him lift 1100 lbs. Same goes for Batman. People also confuse Marvel's system with DC's. They'll try and apply DC characters to Marvel's system and it just doesn't work.

Where is this fabled system from DC?

Also, that thing about Captain America. He bench pressed it, he didn't lift it over his head.

Lifting over the head is harder.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
You can be peak human in a certain area and not in the others. For example, Daredevil is atleast peak human in agility but might not be in other categories. Same goes for Nightwing.

This is correct. In the movie, Veidt is peak human intelligence, perception, reaction speed, strength, and durability.