Originally posted by Zeuodin
Superman already has another feat similiar. While Thor Does not. Plus the other beings with Thor seemed to be resisting the gravity as well. So they are all as strong as Thor?
Yea, that one time when, he, Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman barely slowed down the decent of Spectre.
Thor has the World Engine feat which impresses me more than the Spectre incident. Especially considering the fact that Thor wasn't at top form when he did it.
Resisting? They were faced down sinking into the Earth the only panel we see them. While we have Thor standing up and overpowering the Graviton then throwing his hammer.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsGraviton1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsGraviton2.jpg
How do you, based on their individual performances come up with the conclusion that they are all as strong as Thor? The comic clearly points to otherwise.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusHim hitting Superman a few times doesn't prove anything. Superman purposely takes hits to let him know how hard he has to fight. He's mentioned this several times.
I did understand the story and I'm simply arguing based on what is in the comic.Lol, I don't think I ever heard that stance before. It's rather clear that Thor and Superman where portrayed as peers in that comic. Superman must have lowered his durability so that Thor's blows affected him that much, and clearly Thor is that much physically inferior to Superman, I mean it's not as if he was tanking all of his attacks, even when he and John both attacked him, and clearly hurting/rocking Superman with his attacks or anything.
I mean heaven forbid Thor being on Superman's level, because we all know Thor doesn't have nearly the feats to match in terms of physical capabilities or power that exceeds Superman.
I think Kris' stance is a reasonable one. The stance that neither were going all out. There's more evidence to suggest Thor wasn't though based on that crossover.
Superman has a lot of peers... until he turns it up. 😉
Wonderwoman, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter, etc, all Superman peers.
End of the day though when its on the line?
He's far more formidable than any of them. Thunder God included.
As evidenced in you know, a couple of stories... Final Crisis... Infinite Crisis... COIE... Our Worlds at War... New Maps of Hell... even Elseworld stories like Kingdom Come... Darkside Superman...
.. . wait a minute, didn't JLA/Avengers come to a conclusion with Thor passing on his hammer to someone more formidable to defeat the foes and crack open a force-field?
Surely he could have done that himself! He's Superman's physical peer!
I guess you're right, Thor was clearly holding back and not trying to end the fight, that's why his eyes bugged out like a Looney Tunes character when he realized how powerful Superman was, and even issues later was still deep in thought over it. Even knew that Superman was their last chance.
Originally posted by JuntaiThe comic was pretty evident that Even Wonder Woman was a strong as Thor or Stronger. Look how she bitched Herculese. Who has stalemated Thor in physical combat. Aquaman even makes fun of marvel's heroes. lulz.
Him hitting Superman a few times doesn't prove anything. Superman purposely takes hits to let him know how hard he has to fight. He's mentioned this several times.Superman has a lot of peers... until he turns it up. 😉
Wonderwoman, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter, etc, all Superman peers.
End of the day though when its on the line?
He's far more formidable than any of them. Thunder God included.As evidenced in you know, a couple of stories... Final Crisis... Infinite Crisis... COIE... Our Worlds at War... New Maps of Hell... even Elseworld stories like Kingdom Come... Darkside Superman...
.. . wait a minute, didn't JLA/Avengers come to a conclusion with Thor passing on his hammer to someone more formidable defeat the foes and crack open a force-field?
Surely he could have done that himself! He's Superman's physical peer!
I guess you're right, Thor was clearly holding back and not trying to end the fight, that's why his eyes bugged out like a Looney Tunes character when he realized how powerful Superman was, and even issues later was still deep in thought over it.
Originally posted by Zeuodin
The comic was pretty evident that Even Wonder Woman was a strong as Thor or Stronger. Look how she bitched Herculese. Who has stalemated Thor in physical combat. Aquaman even makes fun of marvel's heroes. lulz.
That's nice. Except we have seen that just because someone can take on Hercules, in no way means they can take on Thor or do just as well against Thor as they did against Hercules.
Seriously, Thor's taken on Armak and went toe to toe with him and he one shotted Hercules and shrugged off a punch in the face from him. Hulk is also another good example.
So what? Whose Aquaman of all people to laugh at heroes? His publicly known as the guy who talks to fish.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusAquaman can also move 800 times faster on land. He can lift about 70 tons and has nearly impentrable skin. In marvel, he'd kick ares Ass. Plus, Wonder Woman was bitching Herculese. Meaning she was far his superior. How many times has Thor fought someone who is far Hercs Superior in hand to hand? And Superman is Wonder Woman's Superior.
That's nice. Except we have seen that just because someone can take on Hercules, in no way means they can take on Thor or do just as well against Thor as they did against Hercules.Seriously, Thor's taken on Armak and went toe to toe with him and he one shotted Hercules and shrugged off a punch in the face from him. Hulk is also another good example.
So what? Whose Aquaman of all people to laugh at heroes? His publicly known as the guy who talks to fish.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So like I said Superman was knocked on his ass by Thor. Depending on the writer Thor does slightly hit harder with Mjolnir, but that’s about it. I don’t know Busiek’s stance on this particular matter.So they went toe to toe, with Superman being knocked on his ass. Superman then resorts to heat vision which clearly affected Thor to an extent. Superman’s strength is astonishing. Just not astonishing enough to go toe to toe with Thor apparently without resorting to other attacks to clearly wear him down, and then while Thor is surprised/distracted (Thor being surprised that Superman can catch his hammer is what distracted him if you must know.), Superman barely manages to knock Thor out after wading through a dose of a pissed off Superman’s heat vision.
And it’s not the first time Superman was knocked on his ass by Thor. In the before their fight Thor put Superman down and hurt him to the point he was cradling his head with a single throw. Superman then resorts to attacking Thor with Martian Manhunter at the same time and Thor still shrugs it off then apparently knocks out Martian Manhunter (He goes flying into a building with lightning trailing behind him and doesn't appear for 3 more pages when he comes out off the building.)
Notice the fact that before the heat vision, Superman was not doing any significant damage to Thor with his blows, while Thor had knocked Superman on his ass.
Go ahead. I simply recall Busiek using it as a visual interpretation to show the fact that a character was struggling or being hurt.
Yes, clearly Thor was shown to be the physical inferior despite the fact that Thor was clearly getting going toe to toe with Superman and was arguably getting the upper hand, as he put Superman down on his ass twice, and Superman barely manages to put Thor down after the heat vision. That crossover in itself clearly portrays them as physical equals, to the point that a small factor such as heat vision can give either of them the advantage they need to win. Heck, Thor apparently one shots Doomsday in that issue (We see Thor hitting Doomsday and he doesn't' appear for the rest of the event as I recall.). To think that it portrays either as clearly above one another or one superior to the other by some sort of large margin is biased in my opinion, but you’re the dude who thinks Superman has dynamic strength, so why am I not surprised?
So because Superman used Heat Vision it means that he is physically inferior to Thor ? That being idiotic aside, it's funny how it was Thor who first hit Superman with Mjolnir/Energy attack after getting in a punch-out with Superman. Thor being distracted by Superman's strength is the reason Superman managed to knock him out ? Holy shit, Quanchi is that you?. You sly dog, making two accounts.
Curses, Thor knocked Superman on his ass with a Mjolnir throw to the face in the first issus. Foiled yet again! This is a definite showing for Thor being superior to Superman in strength!
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? What am I forgetting? That’s rich coming from you.Clearly heat vision substantially affected him physically; to argue otherwise is downright stupid, based on the visual interpretation. Thor is surprised that Superman being able to catch his strike somehow means that the heat vision had no significant effect? Thor was simply shocked at how strong Superman is. Superman being able to catch the hammer strike also doesn’t mean he is clearly the physical superior. Red Norvell stopped a hammer strike as well, and went on to knock Thor out. He is at best Thor’s equal as well based on their later encounters. Heck Thor is even superior based on how they did against the Hulk respectively. Like Thor said to Aquaman. Thor has his measure now. He instinctively brings himself down to match his opponent by the way.
Go ahead. Maybe you’ve read an interview that I haven’t (I take those with a grain of salt by the way.). Biased? LMAO. That’s hilarious coming from you.
I’m simply basing my opinion on the comic. If you think that Thor was not clearly affected by Superman’s heat vision then you’re fooling yourself. And it’s clearly backed up by Thor’s physical reaction to the said heat vision. He was clearly struggling and feeling the heat vision.
You are right though, that Superman speech bubbles indicate anger more than pain in the last phrase.
Hell, Spiderman probably could have caught it, and in the moments of distraction following Thor being shocked at Spiderman stopping his substantially affected Mjolnir strike, use a web-shot to knock him out.
I'm definitley not going to search for the interview. You're just not worth anything but being made fun of.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman also said that Marvel has an edge in a toe to toe fight as I recall, but that might have been in reference to his magical nature; I don't recall it clearly. Mjolnir is just a tool for Thor by the way.Not it clearly wasn’t depicted that Superman is the physical superior. Especially since Superman clearly didn’t only attack Thor physically and resorted to using his other powers such as heat vision. If it was clearly depicted so, Superman wouldn’t have been knocked on his ass like he did whenever he tried to engage Thor toe to toe before the use of heat vision.
One punch? One punch would indicate that Thor was only struck by Superman one time.
“That’s the best meal I’ve ever had”? That analogy is perfect in describing the fact that it was Superman’s toughest fight ever.
Call it hyperbole if you want, but you clearly have no probably using Thor’s statements in your argument yet when I use Superman’s to showcase how tough Thor was, it’s obvious hyperbole. But why am I not surprised? I just flipped through some pages, and you’re hypocritical and biased ass, tried to argue that Superman and Marvel lifting a book of infinite pages was legit while at the same time arguing that Thor resisting and lifting himself up while his weight was multiplied infinitely is hyperbole.
Not just a difficult fight. Apparently his toughest fight.
..
You really can't keep up with what's being argued can you ? What does Captain Marvel having an edge on Superman due to being able to exploit his weakness have to do my counter-argument, which is that Superman had an orgasm to feeling Captain Marvel's (a peer) power too, which is why the Mjolnir "Orgasm feeling" point is rendered null ? Which, in turn, has nothing to do with what is the initial strength-related discussion.
Kurt Busiek pointing out that it's a hyperbole and using an analogy with a real-life hyperbole means that the analogy actually meant this was Superman's toughest fight ? Ah, obviously. 😂
Again with the "Superman used HV thus he is not physically superior to Thor" when it was Thor who first used Mjolnir when going blow for blow with Superman ?
I got bored of making fun of you through your first wall of text, so you'll have to excuse me for not adressing the same point twice.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus“But I have his measure now, and another bout might well hold surprises for the…Kryptonian…”
I "can" use that as a basis for an argument that Thor was holding back if I wanted to. Changing tactics or simply hitting harder?
Lol what? The fact that we are discussing their respective levels of strength based on this crossover, an argument that Thor was holding back is clearly important. Try and keep up.
Nowhere is strength mentioned. Nowhere is him holding back mentioned. All it's said is that he now knows what Superman is capable of and might surprise him in a next fight.
ButItsYourInterpretationQuanAndImLeavingYouWithIt!
Yes, based on how their fight was portrayed, anything other than Superman and Thor being equals is "just plain stupid or bias". Phew, this bias and stupidity is getting the better of me! I should have known. Thank you for enlightening the way.
I can feel my intelligence slowly slipping away just by engaging you, mockingly as it is.
So I'm going to put you on ignore while I have at least a shred of logic left. I think I'm going to read one of Alfheim's posts so that I don't totally lose my faith in people.
Originally posted by Juntai
Him hitting Superman a few times doesn't prove anything. Superman purposely takes hits to let him know how hard he has to fight. He's mentioned this several times.
Thor not only hit Superman, he was also clearly hurting him with his blows. Hell, with a single Mjolnir throw, Thor clearly hurt Superman to the point he was cradling his head.
What even further breaks down this argument, is that after that hit when they encounter each other the next time, guess what happens? Thor hits Superman and Superman uses his flight/speed to dodge it. I guess Superman got all he needed from that one hit and realized he should think twice before letting Thor hit him.
Originally posted by Juntai
Superman has a lot of peers... until he turns it up. 😉Wonderwoman, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter, etc, all Superman peers.
Same can be said for Thor. Look at Hercules. Look at Beta Ray Bill.
Originally posted by Juntai
End of the day though when its on the line?
He's far more formidable than any of them. Thunder God included.
Far more formidable than any of them? 😂
Originally posted by Juntai
As evidenced in you know, a couple of stories... Final Crisis... Infinite Crisis... COIE... Our Worlds at War... New Maps of Hell... even Elseworld stories like Kingdom Come... Darkside Superman..... . wait a minute, didn't JLA/Avengers come to a conclusion with Thor passing on his hammer to someone more formidable to defeat the foes and crack open a force-field?
Surely he could have done that himself! He's Superman's physical peer!
Yea let's just ignore the fact that Thor was busy going toe to toe with Despero, Amazo and some other villains all on his own while fighting like a brick and taking them on easily. Heck he even turned his back while Amazo while they were all attacking him no problem.
Thor saw Superman unable to breach the barrier, so he felt generous and tossed him his hammer and lent him some of his own power since obviously Superman was falling short in that department in regards to the barrier.
And when Thor does appear in a story or say in Avengers issue, when they need a power house to end it, it's Thor. Hell, he saved everybody in the latest even, Secret Invasion.
Originally posted by Juntai
I guess you're right, Thor was clearly holding back and not trying to end the fight, that's why his eyes bugged out like a Looney Tunes character when he realized how powerful Superman was, and even issues later was still deep in thought over it. Even knew that Superman was their last chance.
I never said it was clear Thor was holding back first of all. I just pointed out that their is evidence that if someone did make a stance that Thor was holding back, it would not be baseless.
Yea Superman was the last chance, because Thor was too busy taking on Despero, Amazo etc.
Hell, Thor also apparently one shotted both Grundy and Doomsday respectively in that crossover (We see him hitting both once and we don't see either for the rest of the issue.)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Because it was stated that the Graviton multiplied his weight infinitely as I recall.
Critical thinking fail.
If it was infinite weight how did he not sink into the earth?
Do you really need Sam Kinison to scream at you, "IF IT WAS INFINITE WEIGHT HE WOULD HAVE SUNK BENEATH THE EARTH!!! THE GROUND CAN'T SUPPORT INFINITE WEIGHT!! THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT..."
Also, let's all forget the word 'moment' is used both times.
Originally posted by Zeuodin
Aquaman can also move 800 times faster on land. He can lift about 70 tons and has nearly impentrable skin. In marvel, he'd kick ares Ass. Plus, Wonder Woman was bitching Herculese. Meaning she was far his superior. How many times has Thor fought someone who is far Hercs Superior in hand to hand? And Superman is Wonder Woman's Superior.
Cool.
Why?
Ares is a Class 80 officially if not Class 100 currently, and is pretty damn durable currently.
Not really. She attacked a Hercules that was clearly not intending to fight her and he was clearly going toe to toe. She gets him in a hold in the end but next time we see them fighting he has her in a hold. It was clear they were going toe to toe. Striking an opponent while pissed off who clearly isn't in the same mind set doesn't equate to bitching.
Wow, you really need to have a warp view of that crossover to believe Wonder Woman was Hercules' far superior.
Thor has easily gone toe to toe or dismissed opponents who can go toe to toe with Hercules on a number of occasion.
Just because based on that crossover, you can come to the conclusion....
Wonder Woman = Hercules or heck even Wonder Woman > Hercules, it does not any way equate to even Wonder Woman = Thor.
Originally posted by Spire
Critical thinking fail.If it was infinite weight how did he not sink into the earth?
Do you really need Sam Kinison to scream at you, "IF IT WAS INFINITE WEIGHT HE WOULD HAVE SUNK BENEATH THE EARTH!!! THE GROUND CAN'T SUPPORT INFINITE WEIGHT!! THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT..."
Also, let's all forget the word 'moment' is used both times.
Eh?
So what's your stance or point here? Since it doesn't make sense in the real world, it's therefore not applicable? Is this you H1?
I don't care, if you don't accept it. It's a comic but if you don't accept it, that's fine. What the hell am I supposed to do about it? Just don't be biased and accept the Superman feat as well.
