Thor AND Wonder Woman vs Superman and Captain Marvel

Started by Spire16 pages

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So like I said Superman was knocked on his ass by Thor. Depending on the writer Thor does slightly hit harder with Mjolnir, but that’s about it. I don’t know Busiek’s stance on this particular matter.

So they went toe to toe, with Superman being knocked on his ass. Superman then resorts to heat vision which clearly affected Thor to an extent. Superman’s strength is astonishing. Just not astonishing enough to go toe to toe with Thor apparently without resorting to other attacks to clearly wear him down, and then while Thor is surprised/distracted (Thor being surprised that Superman can catch his hammer is what distracted him if you must know.), Superman barely manages to knock Thor out after wading through a dose of a pissed off Superman’s heat vision.

And it’s not the first time Superman was knocked on his ass by Thor. In the before their fight Thor put Superman down and hurt him to the point he was cradling his head with a single throw. Superman then resorts to attacking Thor with Martian Manhunter at the same time and Thor still shrugs it off then apparently knocks out Martian Manhunter (He goes flying into a building with lightning trailing behind him and doesn't appear for 3 more pages when he comes out off the building.)

Notice the fact that before the heat vision, Superman was not doing any significant damage to Thor with his blows, while Thor had knocked Superman on his ass.

Go ahead. I simply recall Busiek using it as a visual interpretation to show the fact that a character was struggling or being hurt.

Yes, clearly Thor was shown to be the physical inferior despite the fact that Thor was clearly getting going toe to toe with Superman and was arguably getting the upper hand, as he put Superman down on his ass twice, and Superman barely manages to put Thor down after the heat vision. That crossover in itself clearly portrays them as physical equals, to the point that a small factor such as heat vision can give either of them the advantage they need to win. Heck, Thor apparently one shots Doomsday in that issue (We see Thor hitting Doomsday and he doesn't' appear for the rest of the event as I recall.). To think that it portrays either as clearly above one another or one superior to the other by some sort of large margin is biased in my opinion, but you’re the dude who thinks Superman has dynamic strength, so why am I not surprised?

Really? What am I forgetting? That’s rich coming from you.

Clearly heat vision substantially affected him physically; to argue otherwise is downright stupid, based on the visual interpretation. Thor is surprised that Superman being able to catch his strike somehow means that the heat vision had no significant effect? Thor was simply shocked at how strong Superman is. Superman being able to catch the hammer strike also doesn’t mean he is clearly the physical superior. Red Norvell stopped a hammer strike as well, and went on to knock Thor out. He is at best Thor’s equal as well based on their later encounters. Heck Thor is even superior based on how they did against the Hulk respectively. Like Thor said to Aquaman. Thor has his measure now. He instinctively brings himself down to match his opponent by the way.

Go ahead. Maybe you’ve read an interview that I haven’t (I take those with a grain of salt by the way.). Biased? LMAO. That’s hilarious coming from you.

I’m simply basing my opinion on the comic. If you think that Thor was not clearly affected by Superman’s heat vision then you’re fooling yourself. And it’s clearly backed up by Thor’s physical reaction to the said heat vision. He was clearly struggling and feeling the heat vision.

You are right though, that Superman speech bubbles indicate anger more than pain in the last phrase.

Superman also said that Marvel has an edge in a toe to toe fight as I recall, but that might have been in reference to his magical nature; I don't recall it clearly. Mjolnir is just a tool for Thor by the way.

Not it clearly wasn’t depicted that Superman is the physical superior. Especially since Superman clearly didn’t only attack Thor physically and resorted to using his other powers such as heat vision. If it was clearly depicted so, Superman wouldn’t have been knocked on his ass like he did whenever he tried to engage Thor toe to toe before the use of heat vision.

One punch? One punch would indicate that Thor was only struck by Superman one time.

“That’s the best meal I’ve ever had”? That analogy is perfect in describing the fact that it was Superman’s toughest fight ever.

Call it hyperbole if you want, but you clearly have no probably using Thor’s statements in your argument yet when I use Superman’s to showcase how tough Thor was, it’s obvious hyperbole. But why am I not surprised? I just flipped through some pages, and you’re hypocritical and biased ass, tried to argue that Superman and Marvel lifting a book of infinite pages was legit while at the same time arguing that Thor resisting and lifting himself up while his weight was multiplied infinitely is hyperbole.

Not just a difficult fight. Apparently his toughest fight.

Do you really believe that Thor resisted infinite weight? Or in your madness did you just forget the whole 'critical thinking' approach?

Originally posted by Spire
Do you really believe that Thor resisted infinite weight? Or in your madness did you just forget the whole 'critical thinking' approach?

Do I think he did? Why not it's a comic. Just like I think Superman lifted a book of infinite pages.

Do I think either of them can lift that much on average, unless the plot demands it and that they both have infinite strength? Hell no. That's just stupid even by comic standards.

My point was that, if he actually believes that Superman did lift that book and it was infinite, then go on and state that the Thor incident was hyperbole and should not count in the same breath, then his just plain hypocritical.

You can't accept one but ignore the other.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Do I think he did? Why not it's a comic. Just like I think Superman lifted a book of infinite pages.

Do I think either of them can lift that much on average, unless the plot demands it and that they both have infinite strength? Hell no. That's just stupid even by comic standards.

My point was that, if he actually believes that Superman did lift that book and it was infinite, then go on and state that the Thor incident was hyperbole and should not count in the same breath, then his just plain hypocritical.

You can't accept one but ignore the other.

I don't care about any of that, as context obviously separates the two feats.

I was just asking about the Thor feat.

What makes you think he was resisting infinite weight?

😆

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He instinctively brings himself down to match his opponent by the way.
Without even going into the rest of that, apparently you didn't understand the story and are just trying to scrape away anything you can to make you feel good about Thor's performance in the crossover -- It was made quite clear in context, and in writing.. . .Superman lowered his level to fight Thor, then turned the dials up to 11. Not the other way around.

Originally posted by Juntai
Without even going into the rest of that, apparently you didn't understand the story and are just trying to scrape away anything you can to make you feel good about Thor's performance in the crossover -- It was made quite clear in context, and in writing.. . .Superman lowered his level to fight Thor, then turned the dials up to 11. Not the other way around.

👆

Small God from a small world...

Wonder Woman scolding Clark for his backwards comment...

Aquaman's comment about Marvel's heroes...

Nobody's taking themselves down to any sort of level.

Both Superman and Thor hold back instinctively. To claim otherwise is a gross error on both sides.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Nobody's taking themselves down to any sort of level.

Both Superman and Thor hold back instinctively. To claim otherwise is a gross error on both sides.

They both hold back, but the clear case in point that Thor was turning it up as Superman made him scream in pain with a shot of heat vision. .he knew he had a real opponent. . . and he put a ton of OOMPH into his shot, that was meant to be an -ending blow-. He was absolutely befuddled, astonished, because the 'mightiest in the nine worlds could not' have been as powerful as Superman was.

If he was throwing that half-assed, he wouldn't have acted like that. He was putting what he had into it. But Superman's dials go higher.

Originally posted by Juntai
They both hold back, but the clear case in point that Thor was turning it up as Superman made him scream in pain with a shot of heat vision. .he knew he had a real opponent. . . and he put a ton of OOMPH into his shot, that was meant to be an -ending blow-. He was absolutely befuddled, astonished, because the 'mightiest in the nine worlds could not' have been as powerful as Superman was.

If he was throwing that half-assed, he wouldn't have acted like that. He was putting what he had into it.


Nah, Thor wasn't giving it his all. Neither was Superman.

Seems to be the case of not reading any Thor comics. Doctor prescribes more Thor comics.

LoL

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Nah, Thor wasn't giving it his all. Neither was Superman.

Seems to be the case of not reading any Thor comics. Doctor prescribes more Thor comics.

Doctor prescribes being able to read the context of the story in discussion.

Just because they didn't utilize every tactic and ability we've seen them do, and Thor didn't try a godblast, and Superman cracking his jaw didn't shake the solar-system, just like they do every appearance[ 🙄 ] doesn't mean they weren't putting what they had into the fight. Everything is there on the page, described in my last couple posts. You could -try- actually refuting it, rather than "Nuh uh, read more comics." Though such an endeavor is difficult when the panels support my interpretation.

Originally posted by Juntai
Doctor prescribes being able to read the context of the story in discussion.

Just because they didn't utilize every tactic and ability we've seen them do, and Thor didn't try a godblast, and Superman cracking his jaw didn't shake the solar-system, just like they do every appearance[ 🙄 ] doesn't mean they weren't putting what they had into the fight. Everything is there on the page, described in my last post. You could -try- actually refuting it, rather than "Nuh uh, read more comics." Though such an endeavor is difficult when the panels support my interpretation.


Here's the deal.

You analyze the comic.

I analyze the comic along with all the other comics where Thor has gone all out. Now see, I am much more capable of telling when Thor goes all out. How is this you say? Because I've seen all the other incidents, I know when Thor would give it his all and I know what it would look like. See, you know nothing about him. I do.

I think it's obvious that while both characters were trying to win, neither had unleashed their full power or strength. Not by a longshot 😬

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think it's obvious that while both characters were trying to win, neither had unleashed their full power or strength. Not by a longshot 😬

This is what I'm going with, yes.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Here's the deal.

You analyze the comic.

I analyze the comic along with all the other comics where Thor has gone all out. Now see, I am much more capable of telling when Thor goes all out. How is this you say? Because I've seen all the other incidents, I know when Thor would give it his all and I know what it would look like. See, you know nothing about him. I do.

Originally posted by Juntai
You could -try- actually refuting it, rather than "Nuh uh, read more comics." Though such an endeavor is difficult when the panels support my interpretation.
Originally posted by Juntai
They both hold back, but the clear case in point that Thor was turning it up as Superman made him scream in pain with a shot of heat vision. .he knew he had a real opponent. . . and he put a ton of OOMPH into his shot, that was meant to be an -ending blow-. He was absolutely befuddled, astonished, because the 'mightiest in the nine worlds could not' have been as powerful as Superman was.

If he was throwing that half-assed, he wouldn't have acted like that. He was putting what he had into it. But Superman's dials go higher.

Even much later in the series he couldn't get over what Superman did to him. It crushed him.

Originally posted by Spire
I don't care about any of that, as context obviously separates the two feats.

I was just asking about the Thor feat.

What makes you think he was resisting infinite weight?

Because it was stated that the Graviton multiplied his weight infinitely as I recall.

Originally posted by Juntai
Without even going into the rest of that, apparently you didn't understand the story and are just trying to scrape away anything you can to make you feel good about Thor's performance in the crossover -- It was made quite clear in context, and in writing.. . .Superman lowered his level to fight Thor, then turned the dials up to 11. Not the other way around.

I did understand the story and I'm simply arguing based on what is in the comic.

Lol, I don't think I ever heard that stance before. It's rather clear that Thor and Superman where portrayed as peers in that comic. Superman must have lowered his durability so that Thor's blows affected him that much, and clearly Thor is that much physically inferior to Superman, I mean it's not as if he was tanking all of his attacks, even when he and John both attacked him, and clearly hurting/rocking Superman with his attacks or anything.

I mean heaven forbid Thor being on Superman's level, because we all know Thor doesn't have nearly the feats to match in terms of physical capabilities or power that exceeds Superman.

I think Kris' stance is a reasonable one. The stance that neither were going all out. There's more evidence to suggest Thor wasn't though based on that crossover.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Because it was stated that the Graviton multiplied his weight infinitely as I recall.

Hyperbole 😬

Originally posted by iceman24567
Hyperbole 😬

Do you think Superman lifted a book of infinite pages along with Captain Marvel?