Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusExcept in that instance, Wondy was just using strength. No martial arts, No skill. No Speed. No lasso. No bracers or tiara. Nothing. Even if she were going toe to toe with herc as you suggest, it was as if she was she hulk. Did she even fly? I say she was his physical Superior acting as a brick. You say they were stalemating. I can accept that since she used no other powers. He has no other powers. She would still be far his superior in a real fight with both using all thier power. Herc has Stalemated Thor. Now take that how you will.
Cool.Why?
Ares is a Class 80 officially if not Class 100 currently, and is pretty damn durable currently.
Not really. She attacked a Hercules that was clearly not intending to fight her and he was clearly going toe to toe. She gets him in a hold in the end but next time we see them fighting he has her in a hold. It was clear they were going toe to toe. Striking an opponent while pissed off who clearly isn't in the same mind set doesn't equate to bitching.
Wow, you really need to have a warp view of that crossover to believe Wonder Woman was Hercules' far superior.
Thor has easily gone toe to toe or dismissed opponents who can go toe to toe with Hercules on a number of occasion.
Just because based on that crossover, you can come to the conclusion....
Wonder Woman = Hercules or heck even Wonder Woman > Hercules, it does not any way equate to even Wonder Woman = Thor.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusIn all cases of that story, Superman was clearly written as Thor's superior from beginning to end. Was Superman infallible? No. But to suggest Thor was his equal here clearly takes rose colored viking helmet shaped glasses, evidenced in this post, and your others. Even Thor didn't see it the same.
Thor not only hit Superman, he was also clearly hurting him with his blows. Hell, with a single Mjolnir throw, Thor clearly hurt Superman to the point he was cradling his head.What even further breaks down this argument, is that after that hit when they encounter each other the next time, guess what happens? Thor hits Superman and Superman uses his flight/speed to dodge it. I guess Superman got all he needed from that one hit and realized he should think twice before letting Thor hit him.
Same can be said for Thor. Look at Hercules. Look at Beta Ray Bill.
Far more formidable than any of them? 😂
Yea let's just ignore the fact that Thor was busy going toe to toe with Despero, Amazo and some other villains all on his own while fighting like a brick and taking them on easily. Heck he even turned his back while Amazo while they were all attacking him no problem.
Thor saw Superman unable to breach the barrier, so he felt generous and tossed him his hammer and lent him some of his own power since obviously Superman was falling short in that department in regards to the barrier.
And when Thor does appear in a story or say in Avengers issue, when they need a power house to end it, it's Thor. Hell, he saved everybody in the latest even, Secret Invasion.
I never said it was clear Thor was holding back first of all. I just pointed out that their is evidence that if someone did make a stance that Thor was holding back, it would not be baseless.
Yea Superman was the last chance, because Thor was too busy taking on Despero, Amazo etc.
Hell, Thor also apparently one shotted both Grundy and Doomsday respectively in that crossover (We see him hitting both once and we don't see either for the rest of the issue.)
Originally posted by Juntai
Without even going into the rest of that, apparently you didn't understand the story and are just trying to scrape away anything you can to make you feel good about Thor's performance in the crossover -- It was made quite clear in context, and in writing.. . .Superman lowered his level to fight Thor, then turned the dials up to 11. Not the other way around.
Not that it matters but didn't Thor say he underestimated him?
Originally posted by Zeuodin
Except in that instance, Wondy was just using strength. No martial arts, No skill. No Speed. No lasso. No bracers or tiara. Nothing. Even if she were going toe to toe with herc as you suggest, it was as if she was she hulk. Did she even fly? I say she was his physical Superior acting as a brick. You say they were stalemating. I can accept that since she used no other powers. He has no other powers. She would still be far his superior in a real fight with both using all thier power. Herc has Stalemated Thor. Now take that how you will.
And are we not arguing about strength here?
How in the hell was she not using skill? She even had him in a hold. What is it with some people that just because a fighter doesn't use a pressure point they come to the conclusion that they are not using any fighting skill?
Yes she did fly.
They were going toe to toe. She got him in a hold, and he got her in a hold. And she was pissed off as she thought he was the Hercules who raped or did whatever to her mother.
She would beat Hercules in a real fight with all her weapons. If she uses all of her abilities to the max then I give her a clear majority against a standard Hercules. She can fly, is faster, has her lasso, her bracelets etc.
So what if Hercules has stalemated Thor? Exactly how does that reflect on anything since as we have seen, Hercules is clearly not on Thor's level based on their interpretations in incidents outside of their fights.
Originally posted by JuntaiI saw Superman was written to be Thor's Physical Superior. In everyway possible. But Thor's Overal Superior? No. That hammer adds a lot of striking power. The only other times you see Superman bleed like that is with indestructible enchanted items. Bracers, Magical Fist from CM, etc. Thor also called down no lightning, no storms, no wind, nothing. No energy beams. Etc. Thor is Superman's Equal. But in a fight, Superman wins all day. Speed and Strength are really what matters most in a fight between SuperStrong characters.
In all cases of that story, Superman was clearly written as Thor's superior from beginning to end. Was Superman infallible? No. But to suggest Thor was his equal here clearly takes rose colored viking helmet shaped glasses, evidenced in this post, and your others. Even Thor didn't see it the same.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Eh?So what's your stance or point here? Since it doesn't make sense in the real world, it's therefore not applicable? Is this you H1?
I don't care, if you don't accept it. It's a comic but if you don't accept it, that's fine. What the hell am I supposed to do about it? Just don't be biased and accept the Superman feat as well.
My stance is that it wasn't infinite.
My point is that you would have to have shitty critical thinking skills to think it was.
Also, trying to use your "Oh noes but its a comic book." to salvage your position doesn't work here at all because the context was made explicitly clear by the author.
Another display top notch critical thinking abilities. Context. We know the book was infinite.
Originally posted by Juntai
In all cases of that story, Superman was clearly written as Thor's superior from beginning to end. Was Superman infallible? No. But to suggest Thor was his equal here clearly takes rose colored viking helmet shaped glasses, evidenced in this post, and your others. Even Thor didn't see it the same.
Yea clearly. Even during the time, Thor knocked Superman on his ass in single throw, was going toe to toe and had the advantage in a straight up brawl, one shot Doomsday and Grundy apparently, and was easily going toe to toe with Amazo, Despero, etc.
Lmao. Thor was clearly presented as a peer of Superman physically throughout the entire crossover. I mean seriously, how do you come to the conclusion that he was somehow clearly inferior?
Yes Superman knocked him out. That's great. Kal-El is a close enough opponent to Thor that something like heat vision can tip the scales in his favor. That's the case with beings are basically equals in physical strength.
Anyways I have to go.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea clearly. Even during the time, Thor knocked Superman on his ass in single throw, was going toe to toe and had the advantage in a straight up brawl, one shot Doomsday and Grundy apparently, and was easily going toe to toe with Amazo, Despero, etc.Lmao. Thor was clearly presented as a peer of Superman physically throughout the entire crossover. I mean seriously, how do you come to the conclusion that he was somehow clearly inferior?
Yes Superman knocked him out. That's great. Kal-El is a close enough opponent to Thor that something like heat vision can tip the scales in his favor. That's the case with beings are basically equals in physical strength.
Anyways I have to go.
Speculation.
Originally posted by Zeuodin
Imagine if Superman got all nasty and used his combat Speed, super breath, etc, to the max. There wouldn't have been a fight to read about.
Heh.
Thor held back a lot more abilities than Superman did. And Superman did use his speed. That's the first thing he did in their fight.
Originally posted by Spire
My stance is that it wasn't infinite.My point is that you would have to have shitty critical thinking skills to think it was.
Also, trying to use your "Oh noes but its a comic book." to salvage your position doesn't work here at all because the context was made explicitly clear by the author.
Another display top notch critical thinking abilities. Context. We know the book was infinite.
So your stance is basically this:
The Thor feat wasn't a feat of infinite strength despite the fact that it was stated to be so, yet the Superman feat was a feat of infinite strength based on the fact that Superman stated it was so.
😆
You Superman fans crack me up. The hypocrisy here is nearly tangible.
Wipe off the Kryptonian Sperm from your eyes, and stop using double standards.
I have to go, but thanks for the laugh.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusExecpt the in the Supermanfeat, the bleed ground was cracking beneath them. We dont' know what the ground was made of, but i obvious moving the book from it's suspended place was dangerous. Thor's ground wasn' sinking. Also the fact that an infinite memory thingy had to be used so the book could be read let's us know it had infinite pages.
Heh.Thor held back a lot more abilities than Superman did. And Superman did use his speed. That's the first thing he did in their fight.
So your stance is basically this:
The Thor feat wasn't a feat of infinite strength despite the fact that it was stated to be so, yet the Superman feat was a feat of infinite strength based on the fact that Superman stated it was so.
😆
You Superman fans crack me up. The hypocrisy here is nearly tangible.
Wipe off the Kryptonian Sperm from your eyes, and stop using double standards.
I have to go, but thanks for the laugh.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So your stance is basically this:The Thor feat wasn't a feat of infinite strength despite the fact that it was stated to be so, yet the Superman feat was a feat of infinite strength based on the fact that Superman stated it was so.
No my stance is an object having infinite weight will be pulled under the ground. In other words, what was stated in the book. That was the whole point of multiplying one's mass.
The point of focus is the ground, not Thor, or Bob, or Frank, or a chair, a car, a cup, a shoe, a pencil, a Thor fan in denial.
Also, let's completely ignore the word 'moment' which was used twice.
Very, very simple to understand. Seriously.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusYour stance is funny. . . . OK, I'll agree. . he was his peer because he hit Superman
Yea clearly. Even during the time, Thor knocked Superman on his ass in single throw, was going toe to toe and had the advantage in a straight up brawl, one shot Doomsday and Grundy apparently, and was easily going toe to toe with Amazo, Despero, etc.Lmao. Thor was clearly presented as a peer of Superman physically throughout the entire crossover. I mean seriously, how do you come to the conclusion that he was somehow clearly inferior?
Yes Superman knocked him out. That's great. Kal-El is a close enough opponent to Thor that something like heat vision can tip the scales in his favor. That's the case with beings are basically equals in physical strength.
Anyways I have to go.
. . . . until Superman stopped his ending blow, overpowering him from a position with less leverage, made him go bug eyed and call him mightier than anyone in the nine worlds, and then knocked him out. Even to where he was still contemplating it issues later.
And then at the end of the story, when Thor realized he wasn't the man for the job, because it was a job for. . .
Because if Thor was Superman's peer, he would have cut swathe through the villains and smashed open the barrier.