Originally posted by quanchi112Glass jaw? the same guy who took a smack from the Anti-monitor?
I am showing how Thor can easily break Superman's glass jaw. A hammer toss is a much more likely scenario than a nerve pinch. It's what they do in character not unlikely occurrences in comics like the godblast or t-vo.
So you accept one and not the other. You wonder why people call you dc biased.
Originally posted by Spire
Which is showing Superman getting hurt. Something we already know.It's ok though, I know you were just trying to be a true Thor fan(a shitty one that is).
You provided an example of something Superman rarely uses. I supplied an example of something Thor does quite often making mine the much more likely scenario as they are fighting in character. You might as well bring up t-vo.
Originally posted by ZeuodinThor's taken shots from Celestials. Sodom Yat has survived blasts designed to kill him. If you are referring to the crisis you are leaving out a whole lot of context as usual.
Glass jaw? the same guy who took a smack from the Anti-monitor?
Originally posted by celeyhyga17If you follow along the thread there shouldn't be a mystery.
lol wth?
Originally posted by quanchi112
The point has always been that any character in this thread can be either ko'd or damaged badly if their attention is elsewhere.You provided an example of something Superman rarely uses. I supplied an example of something Thor does quite often making mine the much more likely scenario as they are fighting in character. You might as well bring up t-vo.
Um, ok.
It's really not an issue because if his attention was elsewhere it could happen. So it brings us back to all you showed was Superman can be hurt.
However, Thor still gets dropped from a nerve strike. Something I'm guessing most people have never seen.
In my mind all of these characters are in the same weight class. One might be able to lift a few more tons than the other or one might be slightly more durable, but this fight would be a knockdown dragout fight with no quick victory for either side. Think Superman vs Doomsday x2.
That being said, I have to go with team one simple because of the extra magical weapons they bring into the fight. Mjolnir + WW's lasso and tiara simply give team one more options and versatility, imo.
Team one has More skill and Far more weapons and One shot ability and amp ability than Team two.
Team Two has better combined speed and durability than team one.
Strength is all around the same with superman being a lil stronger than everyone else. But Thor hits harder than everyone else.
Reflexes are WW's hands down.
Captain marvel has the best durability but he's the easiest to be taken out by the lasso. What's the name that you call to gain your powers? and he's dead seconds later as billy batson.
Team 2 for the slight majority.
Wonder Woman will be able to hold off any of the two for quite some time, but she has to use her lasso into the fight to avoid the inevitable loss.
Thor = Superman.. this fight can go either way, but if WW is taken out, it would turn into a handicap match, and Thor won't win against two of his peers (unless BFR comes into play)
Team one has a power edge with Thor. Team two has a strength edge since SM and CM are equal with Thor in strength but superior to WW. This could go either way CM would need to fight Thor due to his magic resistance if this happen I think CM and supes could double team Thor since either could take WW out after a good battle.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Your memory seems to omit the fact that Superman was striked away by Mjonlir, off panel, through the forrest. Thor approaches him and Superman uses Heat Vision. Thor withstands it and attacks Superman. The latter catches the hammer, one-handed, with Thor making it clear that Superman's strength is astonishing and the next panel shows Superman one-punching Thor unsconscious while sitting on a piece of wood."Shaky like lines" is, I admit, hilarious in its own right as an argument. I could easily point out that it expresses Superman's anger, the dialogue and depiction of the panel easily backing up my point, but it just deviates from the true point of this discussion, which is that Superman was clearly depicted as Thor's physical superior, shown by actions and statements.
So like I said Superman was knocked on his ass by Thor. Depending on the writer Thor does slightly hit harder with Mjolnir, but that’s about it. I don’t know Busiek’s stance on this particular matter.
So they went toe to toe, with Superman being knocked on his ass. Superman then resorts to heat vision which clearly affected Thor to an extent. Superman’s strength is astonishing. Just not astonishing enough to go toe to toe with Thor apparently without resorting to other attacks to clearly wear him down, and then while Thor is surprised/distracted (Thor being surprised that Superman can catch his hammer is what distracted him if you must know.), Superman barely manages to knock Thor out after wading through a dose of a pissed off Superman’s heat vision.
And it’s not the first time Superman was knocked on his ass by Thor. In the before their fight Thor put Superman down and hurt him to the point he was cradling his head with a single throw. Superman then resorts to attacking Thor with Martian Manhunter at the same time and Thor still shrugs it off then apparently knocks out Martian Manhunter (He goes flying into a building with lightning trailing behind him and doesn't appear for 3 more pages when he comes out off the building.)
Notice the fact that before the heat vision, Superman was not doing any significant damage to Thor with his blows, while Thor had knocked Superman on his ass.
Go ahead. I simply recall Busiek using it as a visual interpretation to show the fact that a character was struggling or being hurt.
Yes, clearly Thor was shown to be the physical inferior despite the fact that Thor was clearly getting going toe to toe with Superman and was arguably getting the upper hand, as he put Superman down on his ass twice, and Superman barely manages to put Thor down after the heat vision. That crossover in itself clearly portrays them as physical equals, to the point that a small factor such as heat vision can give either of them the advantage they need to win. Heck, Thor apparently one shots Doomsday in that issue (We see Thor hitting Doomsday and he doesn't' appear for the rest of the event as I recall.). To think that it portrays either as clearly above one another or one superior to the other by some sort of large margin is biased in my opinion, but you’re the dude who thinks Superman has dynamic strength, so why am I not surprised?
Originally posted by Philosophía
Memory is down. Now, apparently, logic isn't your forte either. Would you say that Thor would be astonished by Superman catching his hammer if HV had substantially affected the attack's potency and it was anything but his best strike ? Furthermore, you are trying to make it as if your speculations and biased interpretations of the scene would somehow be in agreement with Busiek's intentions. Hm. Would you like me to post Busiek's intentions when he wrote this fight, those being the Superman is clearly the physicall superior ? Heat Vision wasn't a factor and you have absolutley nothing to base yourself on and, in fact, Thor's statement logically contradicts that unsupported stance.
Really? What am I forgetting? That’s rich coming from you.
Clearly heat vision substantially affected him physically; to argue otherwise is downright stupid, based on the visual interpretation. Thor is surprised that Superman being able to catch his strike somehow means that the heat vision had no significant effect? Thor was simply shocked at how strong Superman is. Superman being able to catch the hammer strike also doesn’t mean he is clearly the physical superior. Red Norvell stopped a hammer strike as well, and went on to knock Thor out. He is at best Thor’s equal as well based on their later encounters. Heck Thor is even superior based on how they did against the Hulk respectively. Like Thor said to Aquaman. Thor has his measure now. He instinctively brings himself down to match his opponent by the way.
Go ahead. Maybe you’ve read an interview that I haven’t (I take those with a grain of salt by the way.). Biased? LMAO. That’s hilarious coming from you.
I’m simply basing my opinion on the comic. If you think that Thor was not clearly affected by Superman’s heat vision then you’re fooling yourself. And it’s clearly backed up by Thor’s physical reaction to the said heat vision. He was clearly struggling and feeling the heat vision.
You are right though, that Superman speech bubbles indicate anger more than pain in the last phrase.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Superman also had an orgasm when feeling Captain Marvel's power once they merged. That shows nothing, and in case you're not aware of this, we're not discussing Mjolnir's power in comparison to Superman's. We're discussing Superman's strength being superior to Thor's, which was clearly depicted on-panel. As for the statement Superman made after catching Thor's all-out hammer strike with one-hand and one-punching him unconscious, Kurt Busiek has already made it clear what that was meant to express. It's admirable that he has the patience to point out hyperboles when idiots can't figure out it is. He made an analogy that it's similar to a person saying "That's the best meal I've ever had" after enjoying one. In the same way, it's meant to express that it was a difficult fight.
Superman also said that Marvel has an edge in a toe to toe fight as I recall, but that might have been in reference to his magical nature; I don't recall it clearly. Mjolnir is just a tool for Thor by the way.
Not it clearly wasn’t depicted that Superman is the physical superior. Especially since Superman clearly didn’t only attack Thor physically and resorted to using his other powers such as heat vision. If it was clearly depicted so, Superman wouldn’t have been knocked on his ass like he did whenever he tried to engage Thor toe to toe before the use of heat vision.
One punch? One punch would indicate that Thor was only struck by Superman one time.
“That’s the best meal I’ve ever had”? That analogy is perfect in describing the fact that it was Superman’s toughest fight ever.
Call it hyperbole if you want, but you clearly have no probably using Thor’s statements in your argument yet when I use Superman’s to showcase how tough Thor was, it’s obvious hyperbole. But why am I not surprised? I just flipped through some pages, and you’re hypocritical and biased ass, tried to argue that Superman and Marvel lifting a book of infinite pages was legit while at the same time arguing that Thor resisting and lifting himself up while his weight was multiplied infinitely is hyperbole.
Not just a difficult fight. Apparently his toughest fight.
Originally posted by Philosophía
As for Thor holding back because he made an ego-fueled statement later in the series, that statement does not only not even hint at Thor holding back (biased interpretation being passed on as proof contrary to what logic dictates. Hm. I'm having a deja-vu) but it has nothing to do with what we're discussing in the first place, which is Superman's strength. Thor thinking that he might surprise Superman in the next bout with, and I know this might come as a shock, changing tactics does in no way contribue to our strength-related discussion. I know your logic and common sense breaks down when discussing Thor but at least you should be able to keep up with what we're discussing.
“But I have his measure now, and another bout might well hold surprises for the…Kryptonian…”
I "can" use that as a basis for an argument that Thor was holding back if I wanted to. Changing tactics or simply hitting harder?
Lol what? The fact that we are discussing their respective levels of strength based on this crossover, an argument that Thor was holding back is clearly important. Try and keep up.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Furthermore, the fact that everything was on the line in his fight with Superman lends the ideea of Thor holding back in the fight null. Not only that, but Thor being shocked at Superman doing what he did, when he was actually holding back, points out how stupid this stance is. "WOWZERZ! The mighties in nine worlds couldn't have done this to my holding back strike!". -cue to Superman one-punching him unconscious-.
Thor instinctively holds back based on some of his statements. Even when his team mate’s lives are in danger and he himself stated he was using his full power, he has held back. He after said incident stated to the Avengers that he does so instinctively because in trying to fight mortals forgets on the level of mortals, he forgets how much of a god he truly is.
Thor’s been shocked by the fact, that mortals can match him before. Thor is a bit arrogant. Well use to be.
One punch, indicates only one punch thrown by Superman. Re-read the fight. Superman did not strike Thor only once. Seems your memory is the one that's down.
Anyways, my stance on Thor and Superman in terms of strength is that they are equal basically. I don't see how someone can say that one is clearly superior to the other etc. I think that's just plain stupid or biased. Both have ridiculously stupid feats such as lifting infinite weight, punching through reality etc., both have some low showings, but both on averages are shown to be high end top tiers in terms of strength.
Anyone could potentially argue that one is superior to the other, but anything more than a small margin that wouldn't really matter because the difference is so small is stupid in my opinion.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Anyways, my stance on Thor and Superman in terms of strength is that they are equal basically. I don't see how someone can say that one is clearly superior to the other etc. I think that's just plain stupid or biased. Both have ridiculously stupid feats such as lifting infinite weight, punching through reality etc., both have some low showings, but both on averages are shown to be high end top tiers in terms of strength.Anyone could potentially argue that one is superior to the other, but anything more than a small margin that wouldn't really matter because the difference is so small is stupid in my opinion.
I agree with this. Any one comic or instance could tip the tide into either Superman being stronger or Thor, but for the most part, at least to me, they appear to be equal in terms of physical strength. And if one of them is stronger than the other, it's not significantly much more to put them decidely over the top of the other.
