Originally posted by Ms.MarvelActually, neither of them really did a Phalanx.
that video really doesnt help your case any... the only people doing any real ass kicking was achilles himself... and they used a phalanx... which is something the spartans excelled at.
A Phalanx is
What the Spartans did was use short spears and they only had like one spear sticking out in front of them. Also, the Greeks used that shield against archers, while the Spartans used it against people who can't bother to use mix up bows with swords 🙄
Achilles didn't kill all the soldiers at the beach. He was just the tip of the spear. They followed and killed him
First battle of 300, there were thousands of Persians, when the camera pans out, you see them. This was illustrated earlier by the ground shaking and Leonidas' captain thinking it was an earthquake, when it was the thousands of Persians marching. Unless you think a few hundred men can make the ground shake like that?
So no, the Spartans didn't just fight "small waves", first battle was thousands; they killed all without losing a man. Spartans are superior save to Achilles himself, going by the movie.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Actually, neither of them really did a Phalanx.A Phalanx is
What the Spartans did was use short spears and they only had like one spear sticking out in front of them. Also, the Greeks used that shield against archers, while the Spartans used it against people who can't bother to use mix up bows with swords 🙄
Achilles didn't kill all the soldiers at the beach. He was just the tip of the spear. They followed and killed him
indeed my mistake ✅
they sucked though.
Originally posted by Robtard
First battle of 300, there were thousands of Persians, when the camera pans out, you see them. This was illustrated earlier by the ground shaking and Leonidas' captain thinking it was an earthquake, when it was the thousands of Persians marching. Unless you think a few hundred men can make the ground shake like that?So no, the Spartans didn't just fight "small waves", first battle was thousands; they killed all without losing a man. Spartans are superior save to Achilles himself, going by the movie.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
In the first battle, it wasn't the Persians charging, or anything close to it. It was as one of the Spartans said, "Battle Formations". Did all the Persians attack on that day? No, it was small waves. This is why the fight was done quickly.
Maybe you should watch the movie again? Persians did attack/charge that day and I never said it was the entire Persian army, which numbered hundreds of thousands, I said "thousands attacked them in that first battle."
They're talking, the ground starts shaking to the point small rocks start jumping about, Captain says "earthquake?", Leionidas responds "battle formations", IE the Persians are attacking us and in earthshaking numbers. You see the Persians in CGI from the long angle of the camera.
Really, you're arguing against what is shown in the movie; it's dumb of you.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
I guess 51 men taking the beaches of Troy nearly by themselves is not a high feat. 😛
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixNo, not 50. Lesser than 50. A number of them were killed/incapacitated while they were landing on the beach. Then there's Patrocles who was stuck guarding the ship.
The Myrmidons took care of the first wave by themselves, then had help from Ajax and his soldiers for the second wave.
As for the Persian waves the Spartans fought, some were in the hundreds at least.
Originally posted by Robtard
Maybe you should watch the movie again? Persians did attack that day and I never said it was the entire Persian army, which numbered hundreds of thousands, I said "thousands attacked them on that first battle."They're talking, the ground starts shaking to the point small rocks start jumping about, Captain says "earthquake?", Leionidas responds "battle formations", IE the Persians are attacking us and in earthshaking numbers. You the Persians in CGI from the long angle of the camera. They all were killed, Spartans all lived.
Really, you're arguing against what is shown in the movie; it's dumb of you.
As for the fight, only the Greeks have archers so, that's a huge advantage.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
I am not arguing what was shown in the movie, I am arguing how you are representing it. I never said hundreds Persians marched, but I don't think it was above 2 thousand. Either way, the Persians were unskilled, they were peasants, slaves, and most of all, thirsty. 😉
You also said that the ground was shaking because of the marching, but it was battle formations.As for the fight, only the Greeks have archers so, that's a huge advantage.
You said the Spartans only faced "small waves", when clearly in the first battle it was a massive army, which they stopped, pushed back and then slaugthered, without losing a man. It was aslo suggested that the Spartans killed all the Immortals too, the ones that were "10,000 strong."
You're arguing that they weren't marching, but "battle formations" instead, what exactly does that mean and why does it matter? Point of showing the ground shake, was to illustrate how many Persians the Spartans were about to face; there were thousands in that first battle. Ask yourself, how many men would it take to make the ground shake?
The "Greeks" would have up to ten archers as per the OP, though I don't recall the Myrmidons having archers either. Either way, the Spartans faced thousands upon thousands of arrows without losing a single man, 10 archers won't be a problem; they'll just get skewered by a thrown spear, as shown, the Spartans can hit a man from an extremely long distance.
Based on movie scenes and the difficulty presented by the opposition demonstrated on screen, Achilles and Myrmidons would beat Leonidas' Spartans given the same number of soldiers for each group.
The Myrmidons' charge on the Trojan beach was suicide, but they pulled it off (with critical aid from Ajax' troop of course). I thought that was more superhuman than anything the Spartans did on screen in 300.
Also it is clear that the Trojans were shown to be more competent than the Persians, Persian monsters notwithstanding. For instance the Myrmidons didn't have ample time to erect a proper defensive barricade when they were landing on the beach and the Trojans picked a fair few Greeks off, like good soldiers would.
By contrast the Persians just seemed to get steam rolled by basic attacks, flying over Spartan shields and skewerening themselves on Spartan spears. Achilles had to pull off some serious martial arts and even what looked like precognition in one instance (lol), to get by the temple guard, Leonidas didn't need anywhere near that much skill to dispatch Persians.
Originally posted by Robtard
You said the Spartans only faced "small waves", when clearly in the first battle it was a massive army, which they stopped, pushed back and then slaugthered, without losing a man. It was aslo suggested that the Spartans killed all the Immortals too, the ones that were "10,000 strong."You're arguing that they weren't marching, but "battle formations" instead, what exactly does that mean and why does it matter? Point of showing the ground shake, was to illustrate how many Persians the Spartans were about to face; there were thousands in that first battle. Ask yourself, how many men would it take to make the ground shake?
The "Greeks" would have up to ten archers as per the OP, though I don't recall the Myrmidons having archers either. Either way, the Spartans faced thousands upon thousands of arrows without losing a single man, 10 archers won't be a problem; they'll just get skewered by a thrown spear, as shown, the Spartans can hit a man from an extremely long distance.
10,000 soldiers can't make the ground shake. The entire Persian army did though. The Spartans didn't fight the entire Persian army. They fought small waves of the entire army. Just look at how little soldiers they sent as Cavalry, or other stuff. Why? Because the Persians wont to stop them quickly.
The Myrmidons did use archer. If you look at their first fight in the beach, some used archers while being in shield formation.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
10,000 is a small wave compared to the total of soldiers they really had. Also, the fight with the immortals ended quickly, I am pretty sure they retreated.10,000 soldiers can't make the ground shake. The entire Persian army did though. The Spartans didn't fight the entire Persian army. They fought small waves of the entire army. Just look at how little soldiers they sent as Cavalry, or other stuff. Why? Because the Persians wont to stop them quickly.
The Myrmidons did use archer. If you look at their first fight in the beach, some used archers while being in shield formation.
WTF, I said they fought thousands, you said "no, they only fought small waves, the only large wave was the Immortals"; now you're saying 10k is the small wave? Make up your mind, dude.
10k didn't make the ground shake, as that was the Immortals. The ground shook in the first battle, when they fought the regular foot soldiers, which would have been [a lot] more than 10k, as the ground did shake.
Okay, like I said, the Myrmidons have 10 archers here. The Spartans faced thousands and thousands of archers; they didn't lose a man.
Originally posted by Robtard
WTF, I said they fought thousands, you said "no, they only fought small waves, the only large wave was the Immortals"; now you're saying 10k is the small wave? Make up your mind, dude.10k didn't make the ground shake, as that was the Immortals. The ground shook in the first battle, when they fought the regular foot soldiers, which would have been [a lot] more than 10k, as the ground did shake.
Okay, like I said, the Myrmidons have 10 archers here. The Spartans faced thousands and thousands of archers; they didn't lose a man.
When Leonidas said Battle Formation, there was thousand and thousands of soldier in the back ground who were making up formations. That is what made the ground shake. Denying that is ignoring what happened. If you actually think a few thousand soldiers can shake the ground then there is no need to debate this any longer
10,000 compared to what the entire Persian army was at that time is considered small in my books. Which is why I said small waves
The Spartans never fought archer + soldiers. They fought Peasants who had on bad clothing, some with no shield, and most with no experience, and techniques to win. The Myrmidons are the best Greeks in "their" time. They know how to use efficient techniques, they have good equipment and the best leader.
Remember in 300, the Spartans barely fought anyone strong (except immortals and the ogre-man). They never fought someone that had archers to back them up. What did they have? They had archers blindly shoot at the Spartans from miles away. Obviously the hawk shield will help in that situations.
Most of all, the Spartans even explained that hey reason they were winning is because of their "formation". Strength had a part to play, but it was Formation and narrow passage that got them the victory
Here, this is contradictory with what you're saying now:
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Also, the Spartans never fought thousands of Persians. They fought small waves. The only large wave was the Immortals and the Spartans called on the Athenians. Granted, it wasn't many but they played a vital role.
Watch for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnxlhajOolw&feature=player_embedded
Anyhow, Spartans showed greater, they killed more, they killed monsters, they killed bombadiers, gigantic war elephants, a battle rhino, Zulus; they were protrayed as nigh super-human, while only Achilles of the Myrmidons was shown to be as such.
Those 10 archers won't mean shit, once the two lines close and clash into each other (which will be fast), the archers won't be able to fire or risk killing there own men. There's also only 10 of them.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Not entirely sure if Leonidas has more strength than Achilles. Achilles cut through a statue of Apollo as if it were made of butter.He's faster than Leonidas though, and arguably more skilled. He can throw a spear far better than Leonidas can.
With the help of his army? He'd easily do so and more.
Achilles>Leonidas overall; period. He's faster, stronger, and a much more skilled fighter against groups and in solo dueling as well. Leonidas probably has more experience. I doubt Achilles would have had much struggle against the Persian Troll that Leonidas fought.
The Myrmidons were skilled as a group, granted. But they are nothing compared to the Spartans. Every Spartan seemed to be in peak capacity human shape, inordinarily skilled in group combat.
5.Achilles
4.Spartans
3.
2.
1.Myrmidons
That's how I'd classify the power structure of the combatants here.
Leonidas vs Achilles
Leonidas is raw power and can take more hits. But Achilles is half god not to mention he is fast and agile.
So the battle would go Leonidas dominates in the beginning possible cutting Achilles in the arm then Achilles dodges a hit and finally lands a blow so Achilles dodges and counters multiple times and leonidas after a had and long battle would get tired and achilles would win at the last second.