I think you're misunderstanding me, or perhaps I'm not being very clear. I'm not saying she has no skill or technique whatsoever; what I'm saying is that, she is not a master of any one discipline and therefore doesn't deserve to be among the other fighters in that tier.
I'm well informed on topic; I just think we should take into consideration the context under which the adulation from top tier fighters has been given to her.
Take your example, for example... in the context of knowing Diana has had years of training and multiple, very skilled sparring partners, of course she knows where to hit; anyone who is a "highly skilled martial artist" has that knowledge. My logic is that, the only reason Diana is held in such high regard is, again, because she's a super. Do you honestly believe that if Diana fought Grayson, sans her powers, it would even be close? If you take away her powers, all of a sudden her punches/kicks aren't so quick and her reaction time, and subsequently her ability to defend, drops off tremendously.
All that said... nevermind! Even though i still think she is the weakest fighter in that tier, i now realize that we are supposed to keep them in the tier which contains the people they are closest to in skill. She's on the lower end of 2nd tier, but i suppose dropping her to 3rd is a bit much.
I concede my argument and drop my proposal.
Originally posted by jalek moye
thats what im saying, if we are allowing his chi powers to be taken in account then yes hes uber. if not top tier. I just have been confused on the decision on that aspect of him. Since people seem to view it differentlyAlso i agree on spider-man to fourth.
and by Caiera do u mean hulk's wife? or some other character
Originally posted by marwash22
Take your example, for example... in the context of knowing Diana has had years of training and multiple, very skilled sparring partners, of course she knows where to hit; anyone who is a "highly skilled martial artist" has that knowledge. My logic is that, the only reason Diana is held in such high regard is, again, because she's a super. Do you honestly believe that if Diana fought Grayson, sans her powers, it would even be close? If you take away her powers, all of a sudden her punches/kicks aren't so quick and her reaction time, and subsequently her ability to defend, drops off tremendously.
Originally posted by marwash22
I think you're misunderstanding me, or perhaps I'm not being very clear. I'm not saying she has no skill or technique whatsoever; what I'm saying is that, she is not a master of any [b]one discipline and therefore doesn't deserve to be among the other fighters in that tier. [/b]
Yes, yes she is. She is the master of the Amazon fighting disciplines, unsurpassed in them.
Which are in turn probably descended from ancient greek martial arts, of which there are a few.
My logic is that, the only reason Diana is held in such high regard is, again, because she's a super. Do you honestly believe that if Diana fought Grayson, sans her powers, it would even be close?
Yep.
There's even top-tiers she stands a reasonable chance against, as discussed before I think she stands a good chance against Batman and BC without using her powers.
If you take away her powers, all of a sudden her punches/kicks aren't so quick and her reaction time, and subsequently her ability to defend, drops off tremendously.
Yea, they'd be down to around peak-human level but remain excellent.
She took on the greatest heroes of Norse mythology, Beowulf and Hrothgar, completely depowered recently. Her defense is still rather good.
hyperbole much.
Still, he said that (or rather thought it), and he'd have quite a bit of personal experience, and he's not that open with praise. Nor is it easy to impress Black Canary with skill either.
Originally posted by dmills
@Konton,Iron Fist was doing that decades ago, and he was weaker (in terms of chi output) then Mandarin was when he fought Iron Man without rings. Danny used pure skills.
The difference being that Mandarin and Temugin have been depicted as a legitimate threat to Iron Man in melee, whereas Iron Fist was essentially a joke that Iron-man could beat whenever he wanted if he got serious.
Originally posted by dmills
@Konton,Iron Fist was doing that decades ago, and he was weaker (in terms of chi output) then Mandarin was when he fought Iron Man without rings. Danny used pure skills.
When? I've only seen one fight between Fist and Iron Man, and it went like this: Fist attacks and Iron Man basically laughs at him. Treats fist as a complete joke, even mocking him.
Then an accident happens that makes it look like Iron Man is responisble for Fist's girlfriend's death. Iron Man is frozen in shock and horror, whle Fist goes apeshit, barraging Iron Man with iron-fists.
The fists knock Iron Man back through a brick wall. Iron Man flies back without a scratch.
Fist did horribly in that fight. Horribly. The only time he looked good was for a few seconds when he was berzerk, and Iron Man was frozen in horror at the apparant death of Fist's girl. And "looked" good was all he did, his attacks acomplished nothing.
^ Such a generalization (if valid) is surely ensconced in how Danny was portrayed before obtaining the Book of the Iron Fist.
I don't see how anybody validates keeping Danny down. He was already clearly within the top tier of martial artists before Brubaker's run. And he's gone through two distinct upgrades by absorbing Orson's chi and reading the Book of the Iron Fist. Now he can (i) heal himself inadvertently just by meditating (where as before he'd drain himself, sometimes dangerously), (ii) punch speeding trains, (iii) catch bullets, (iv) pound helicarriers...
... yea. This stuff is flashier. But are people really trying to argue that Ironfist isn't more skilled than he was before?
^ Just on your narrow question, he's learned, among other things, different striking techniques from the Book of the Iron Fist. You couldn't have forgotten that.
Originally posted by srankmissingninTry looking at his Respect Thread. Trying to conflate the increased chi with his increased skill/use of it doesn't change the fact that there is increased skill.
It also helps that those scans don't exist.
One clear example is Danny being able to meditate while fighting in the Eighth City. Meditation and focus are prerequisites to harnessing these zomg-they're-only-increased-chi powers in the first place. And in Maximum Carnage, he had trouble focusing his meditation while being attacked by human rioters.
Current Iron Fist would kick the crap out of old Iron Fist something harsh.