Comic Book Martial Artist Hierarchy

Originally posted by jalek moye
With Iron Fist is this purely his fighting proweess or is all his chi powers and stuff adding to this?

Because pure fighting skill I think he's right where he should be

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I believe when the hierarchy was originally constructed, while we were trying to avoid factoring in "power-based skill" we were considering "skill-based power."

That could be the reason they've been placed so highly.

The question to the thread is whether we want to consider "skill-based power" or not. And the consequential movement of characters depending upon that.

I'm going to change my vote on Drakon from "Move to second tier" to "move to second OR uber tier".

Because if his speed is super, then he hasn't demonstrated TT skill. If it's not and he's just that good, then he was so overwhelming a top tier barely put up a fight! Out of the top tiers, only the very best of 'em would have a chance.

So if people don't think he's powered, he should move up.

Swap places between David Cain and Bane

Why swap? If you think Bane's good enough for second, Cain doesn't have to go down, and Cain's able to give top tiers a very good fight when he's not drunk, imo pretty clearly second.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm going to change my vote on Drakon from "Move to second tier" to "move to second OR uber tier".

Because if his speed is super, then he hasn't demonstrated TT skill. If it's not and he's just that good, then he was so overwhelming a top tier barely put up a fight! Out of the top tiers, only the very best of 'em would have a chance.

So if people don't think he's powered, he should move up.

Why swap? If you think Bane's good enough for second, Cain doesn't have to go down, and Cain's able to give top tiers a very good fight when he's not drunk, imo pretty clearly second.

Edit: Also I vote we add Harley Quinn to Fourth Tier.

I think historically Iron Fist has more then enough high end non chi amped feats to warrant his current placement. The chi skills push him over the top, but no more or less then any others.

I'm confused now, are you (dmills) still backing the proposal to move Iron Fist up?

I think he's fine where he is. His recent power boosts have been about increase chi control.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Well, gimme some convincing and I'll second the addition proposal. But a third would probably still be needed for a second tier placement.

Or vote on the others in the giant list of proposals, to weed it down, so that the Nemesis addition becomes more prominent... 😛

I already stated my reasoning though. I guess I can put up some scans when the semester ends. I figured we had enough Wildcats readers that I wouldn't have to though.

Originally posted by Q99
Which Nemesis? It's a very commonly used name.

Also, which Savant do you mean Pr?

If it's the Bird of Prey Savant I can see him at second.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Charis Adrastea from Wildstorm.

Hah, *so* commonly a used name I forgot about her when I was thinking of 3~ others 🙂

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Yes I'm still backing bumping him up. Absolutely. Especially considering most objections against him can be used against most of the upper tier characters on the list.

@Q99,
No. The knowledge gained from the Book of the Iron fist has helped him increase his skills dramatically. He's doing things without amping that he was never able to do before.

Like what?

I didn't notice any non-chi feats that I wouldn't have thought him already capable of in the series (admittedly, I haven't read a lot of IF in the years before IIF).

Yes, it's the Birds of Prey Savant.

He was able to bust open Luke Cage without amping (though he amped for the final ko). He defeated the IF killer non-amped, fighting while in a meditative state etc.

Originally posted by dmills
He was able to bust open Luke Cage without amping

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Which sounds like PIS. Non-amped he's a normal human essentially and no normal human could do serious damage to Luke Cage without a weapon.

What dmills meant was that Danny didn't use IF technique.

I'm against demoting Black Canary.

Originally posted by dmills
He was able to bust open Luke Cage without amping (though he amped for the final ko). He defeated the IF killer non-amped, fighting while in a meditative state etc.

Fighting while in a meditative state is a neat trick but it doesn't really imply higher HtH skills. And he could always outfight Luke. I would think he was strengthening himself with chi even before using the fist, but I don't think it suggests change in his technique level.

I vote Iron Fist to stay where he is.

@Q99,

Then you have to justify Mandarin and Temugin being uber tier. Otherwise I have to insist that either Iron Fist goes up or that they come down. Even non current IF has more feats the them.

I say move them down then. because on a pure skill basis I think he is in the right spot with his peers. I mean assuming the chi skills and stuff arent being taken in account.

Originally posted by dmills
@Q99,

Then you have to justify Mandarin and Temugin being uber tier. Otherwise I have to insist that either Iron Fist goes up or that they come down. Even non current IF has more feats the them.

Hey, I'm not one of the ones who voted them up there 🙂

All I know is non-chi'ed up, Danny still strikes me as a top-tier, and we can't really base votes on other votes made when the rules might've been a bit different.