Comic Book Martial Artist Hierarchy

Wolverine is top tier. He does have alot of showings to back it up but alot of the time he fights like a skilled brawler.

Wolverine's physical advantages that could be mistaken for skill are also a lot more minor than Gamora's. He's slightly superhumanly fast, slightly superhumanly strong, and all his other enhancements are mostly on what happens when he is hit.

why is this up for debate? Wolverine is clearly top tier. Perhaps the claws are blinding people to the reality of how exceptional his actual fighting skills are.

Originally posted by Ize19
Okay, can we put this notion that Wolverine is not a top tier fighter to rest now? I mean, honestly, it really does get tiring seeing that posted again and again. Listen, if you haven't seen enough to make you believe that Wolverine is a Top Tier martial artist, then how about I show you he is ?

Okay, so your main worry is that Wolverine's physical abilities give him an edge that the other top tier's don't have, correct? Well, here we have him fighting against Domina, the leader of the Neo, a group of superhumans. She has already dominated Sabretooth, killed Sinister, and handled an X-Men team composed of Thunderbird, Psylocke, Cicilia Reyes, Colossus, Rogue, and Nightcrawler. Then Wolverine comes onto the scene, and does this:

Here he goes up against 5000 Hand ninja, along with Elektra (who's been edited out, but definitely did her fair share,) and decimates them, without getting scratched:

If you think that the lack of a torn up uniform isn't evidence of not getting injured, then check out how this artist drew Wolverine when he was taking while he got:

Here Wolverine takes on both Shogun and Azrael, one having, according to Wolverine:

"move like the Hand, and speed like the Gorgon"
http://yfrog.com/6wwolverinev2ch05727j

And the other being the thousands of years old Angel of Death. Wolverine deals with both handily:

http://yfrog.com/3dwolverinev2ch06123j
http://yfrog.com/9gwolverinev2ch06125j
http://yfrog.com/1awolverinev2ch06127j

Here Wolverine faces off against, and forces onto the defensive, an Iron Fist more powerful and skilled than Danny Rand (Pre-Upgrade,):

http://img263.imageshack.us/i/ironfistandwolverine041.jpg/

But of course, who you can beat isn't everything (Otherwise I would have posted more scansof Ogun, Shingen, Stick, Shang Chi, Daredevil, and Captain America.) So here are some instances of Wolverine's fighting knowledge.

In this scan, we learn about Wolverine's knowledge of "nerve clusters, crucial pressure points, where a blow can instantly paralyze someone, or kill."

http://yfrog.com/0ywolverinels0117j

It makes sense he'd know these, as he can "incapacitate, mobilize... maim and cripple a hundred different ways":

http://img299.imageshack.us/i/mcpch11408.jpg/

We see him put that knowledge to use here, against a brick in another dimension:

http://yfrog.com/1rloganpotw39j

And here we see him knee Captain America in the thigh, giving him a "Femoral artery pseudo-aneurism" that sends him to the hospital (though not immediately):

http://yfrog.com/eswoch0041213j

And of course, his most impressive to date, crumbling a chi-amping brick who "hits like the Thing, if the Thing was a ninth degree black belt and could kick you in the face ":

http://yfrog.com/69wolverinemdch0210j
http://yfrog.com/08wolverinemdch0212j
(The actual feat)http://yfrog.com/j4wolverinemd041617j

You can also consider his knowledge and ability with joint locks. How about a small sampling for that?

http://yfrog.com/3dwolverinev2ch00306j
http://yfrog.com/j9uxmch39714j
http://yfrog.com/3vuxmch22813j
http://yfrog.com/0cuxmch17313j

Wolverine is dangerous, whether he can use his hands, or not:

http://yfrog.com/emwolverinev2ch03917j
http://yfrog.com/0juxmch15211j
http://yfrog.com/6wuxmch27205j

Wolverine is also capable of attacking in several directions simultaneously:

http://yfrog.com/jkwolverinev1ch1520708j
http://yfrog.com/j4wolverinev2ch0092021j
http://yfrog.com/bgwolverinev2ch02008j

Oh yeah, and he can convince Hand ninja and Hydra soldiers, that he's Captain America - while using a trash can lid for a shield:

http://yfrog.com/j9wolverinev1ch12706j
http://yfrog.com/b9wolverinev1ch12707j
http://yfrog.com/2pwolverinev1ch12708j

Honestly, I don't know what more the guy has to do to prove his martial arts ability to you, but if there is anything, let me know, cause he definitely has more. Otherwise, it would be nice to be able to go on the forums again without people constantly trying to downgrade Wolverine's skills, just because he's a mutant.

Great post.

Wolverine also effortlessly rage stomped Crusher Creel in the Vault when they were both powerless, and Carl was a heavy weight contender with a title shot, so its not like he is completely unskilled. A rare showing of some ground game from a comic book martial artist as well.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Great post.

Thanks.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine also effortlessly rage stomped Crusher Creel in the Vault when they were both powerless, and Carl was a heavy weight contender with a title shot, so its not like he is completely unskilled. A rare showing of some ground game from a comic book martial artist as well.

And Logan said he could kill him in about forty-three ways when he had him pinned.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And Logan said he could kill him in about forty-three ways when he had him pinned.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And Logan said he could kill him in about forty-three ways when he had him pinned.

That's almost as impressive as...

http://img594.imageshack.us/i/batskills8.jpg/

... but not really.

Originally posted by batdude123
That's almost as impressive as...

http://img594.imageshack.us/i/batskills8.jpg/

... but not really.

Originally posted by batdude123
That's almost as impressive as...

http://img594.imageshack.us/i/batskills8.jpg/

... but not really.

And here I thought I was gonna be cool and post this.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Blade/BladekillsMCP.jpg

Originally posted by snoopdogg
@sshole.

And here I thought I was gonna be cool and post this.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Blade/BladekillsMCP.jpg

😎

Speaking as a martial artist, what exactly counts as a different 'way' to kill/KO/whatever someone? Does a strait punch and a corkscrew punch count as two different ways? And really, don't these people know thousands of moves?

As far as I can tell, that phase is completely meaningless 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
Speaking as a martial artist, what exactly counts as a different 'way' to kill/KO/whatever someone? Does a strait punch and a corkscrew punch count as two different ways? And really, don't these people know thousands of moves?

As far as I can tell, that phase is completely meaningless 🙂

Your attempt @ defacing is completely meaningless.

It's not really defacing, it's just a writers thing. It really boils down to "I could take down X however I chose," no matter the number 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
It's not really defacing, it's just a writers thing. It really boils down to "I could take down X however I chose," no matter the number 🙂

Except one number is bigger.

The only reason I brought it up is because another poster brought up a similar "dick measuring" feat for Wolverine.

-The changes and additions that have been made are in bold, based on the following votes which are either lack any forthcoming opposition and/or have three vote majorities:
Darkseid to fourth tier: 2 [Omega, jalek] /
Blade to second: 7 [Deadline, YFZ, marwash, snoop, endrict, Darth Martin, Blanket] / 4 [Style, llagrok, capt, srank]
Alpha to second: 3 [X, Ize, Q99] / 0
Mad Dog Cain to second: 3 [X, Ize, Q99] / 0
Gamora to uber: 9 [marwash, Ize, dmills, Omega, Konton, Boubonmaster, Q99, jalek, srank] / 6 [galactisishere, Tyrant, ODG, Blanket, Smurph, SuperiorTech]
Aquaman to third: 3 [jalek, Omega, comicfan] / 0
Twelve Brothers to third: 2 [X, Q99] / 0
Merlyn (DC) to third: 2 [X, comicfan] / 0

-There is now an empty Marvel top tier slot.

Comic Book Martial Artist Hierarchy [205]

Cosmic Tier: (Transcendent Martial Artists) [2]
Karate Kid, Mantis

Uber Tier: (Unearthly Martial Artists) [10]
Adam Warlock, Gamora, Iron Fist, Kirigi (DC), Mandarin, Moondragon, O-Sensei, Ogun, Stick, Temugin

Top Tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉 [17]
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman (Bruce Wayne), Black Canary, Bronze Tiger, Captain America (Steve Rogers), Connor Hawke, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second Tier: (Master Martial Artists) [64]
Agent X, Alpha, Ares (DC), Artemis, Azrael, Backlash, Batman (Dick Grayson), Big Barda, Black Panther (T’Challa), Black Widow, Blade, Bucky Barnes, Bullseye, Cable, Captain Mar-Vell, Champion of the Universe, Cheshire, Crossbones, Daken, David Cain, Deadpool, Deathstroke, Domino, Donatello, Echo, Erik Killmonger, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Grifter, Hawkeye (Clint Barton), Hawkman, Jason Blood, Judomaster (Hadley Jagger), Karnak, Lady Deathstrike, Leonardo, Mad Dog Cain, Magnus, Michaelangelo, Midnight Sun, Mister Terrific, Mr Sensitive, Natas, Nick Fury, Nomad (Jack Monroe), Orion, Ozymandias (DC), Prometheus, Puck, Raphael, Ra's al Ghul, Ravager (Rose Wilson), Red Hood (Jason Todd), Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Steel Serpent, Stone, Talia al Ghul, Thanos, Vandal Savage, White Tiger (Angela del Toro), Wildcat (Ted Grant), Wonder Woman, X-23, Zealot

Third Tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists) [70]
Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Arsenal, Bane, Beta Ray Bill, Black Bolt, Black Cat, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Caiera, Colleen Wing, Doctor Doom, Doctor Mid-Nite, Doctor Strange, Donna Troy, Drax, Duke (GI Joe), Green Arrow (Oliver Queen), Grendel (Hunter Rose), Heavy Duty (GI Joe), Hercules, Hippolyta, Huntress, Kalibak, Katana, KGBeast, Kingpin, Lady Vic, Lashina, Lobo, Loki, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, Merlyn (DC), Midnighter, Mister America (Tex Thomson), Mockingbird, Moon Knight, Mystique, Namor, Night Thrasher, Nightcrawler, Omega Red, Onyx, Prodigy, Psylocke, Punisher, Red Robin (Tim Drake), Revanche, Robin (Damian Wayne), Sabretooth, Sage, Shadowcat, Shatterstar, Shrike IV (Boone), Speedy (Mia Dearden), Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Stacy X, Starfire, Terry McGinnis, The Question (Vic Sage), Thena, Thor, Twelve Brothers in Silk, Typhoid Mary, US Agent, V, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wild Child, Wong, Yukio

Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artists) [42]
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Batwoman, Beast, Blink, Blue Devil, Boom Boom, Boy Blue, Cannonball, Carol Danvers, Catwoman, Cinderella, Colossus, Cyclops, Danielle Moonstar, Darkseid, Deathbird, Falcon, Gambit, Hawkgirl, Invisible Woman, Iron Man, Jamie Madrox, Joker, Jubilee, Lex Luthor, Luke Cage, Mister Fantastic, Misty Knight, Nite Owl II, Prince Charming, Rorschach, She-Hulk, Spider-Man, Storm, Strong Guy, Superman, Tarantula, Thing, Two-Face, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wonder Man, Zauriel

Notes
-I'll leave this not here for a bit. N.B. I was tallying votes to determine whether there was consensus agreement on whether skill-based powers are to be included in the consideration of placement. While there was only one person who explicitly voted one way or the other, the Iron Fist vote seems to confirm that participants of this thread will be taking into account skill-based power. When I get a chance I may ask Digi to edit my opening posts with (both the updated hierarchy and) this clarification of what's under consideration.

-I should note that movement of either Canary or Drakon down without replacement will simply result in a vacant DC top tier slot.

-There is a vacant Marvel slot in the top tier.

-Beyond nomination for the Marvel top tier slot can people weigh in on the huge list below, before we move onto any new additions or changes for a bit? Particularly the Old Proposed Changes. I've taken the liberty of casting a few votes on some of the changes I agree with (although in general I'm avoiding voting or nominating changes, as the facilitator of the thread.)

Proposed Additions' Entry Points
Nemesis (Charis Adrastea) to second tier: 1 [Style] /
Kanto to second tier: 2 [Omega, comicfan] /
Mera to third: 1 [Omega] / 1 [comicfan]
Tombstone to fourth: 1 [Omega] /
Juggernaut to fourth: 1 [Omega] /
Faora to second:1 [Omega] /
Catman to second: 1 [srank] /
Savant (BoP) to second: 2 [Pr, Q99] /

Old Proposed Changes
Jubilee to third: 3 [Cresh, Q99, Konton] / 4 [llag, Nataku, Blanket, Style]
Kingpin to second: 6 [Ize, V, jrod, srank, capt, Accel] / 7 [dmills, Soljer, llag, Macoy, Nataku, Blanket, Style]
Moon Knight to second: 6 [dmills, Ize, llagrok, Fake McCoy, Deadline, Mungi] / 5 [Soljer, capt, endrict, Blanket, YFZ]
Midnighter to second: 3 [Ize, Soljer, Blanket] / 4 [Style, endrict, srank, dmills]

New Proposed Changes
Constantine Drakon to second: 1 [Q99] / 1 [srank]
or Drakon to uber: 1 [Q99] / 1 [Pr]
Tim Drake to second: 3 [X, Pr, MM] / 1 [Konton]
Black Canary to second: 2 [Omega, Pr] / 2 [srank, Konton]
Ares (Marvel) to second: 2 [ODG, comicfan] / 1 [jalek]
Hercules to second: 1 [comicfan] / 1 [jalek]
Gorgon to uber: 1 [dmills] /
Drax to second: 2 [dmills, AlmightyK] / 0
Superman to third: 1 [Pr]
Psylocke to replace Taskmaster: 1 [srank] / 1 [AlmightyK]
Punisher to second: 2 [YFZ, Deadline] / 0
Gambit to third: 2 [snoop, Mungi] / 0

Nominations for the Marvel Top Tier slot:
Black Panther: 2 [marwash, Q99]
Psylocke: 1 [dmills]
Sabretooth: 1 [dmills]
Mr X: 1 [srank] / 1 [dmills]

P.S. I don't think I've missed any votes, but if I have let me know/repost them. [/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by batdude123
That's almost as impressive as...

http://img594.imageshack.us/i/batskills8.jpg/

... but not really.

I think Gambit to third sounds good.

Edit: Also I kind of think Cassandra Cain belongs in Uber tier but I understand if not many people agree with me.