Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Pish posh 😖leep:Incapacitate is a much broader term than kill, so that immediately opens a lot of extra doors, some random schmuck isn't exactly Crusher Creel which opens a few more, and their position was much different, Wolverine didn't even have any free hands. 😎
Incapacitate "without drawing blood."
I'm sure if he took into account the amount of ways he could incapacitate or kill his foe with or without drawing blood, it would be over 9000. 😖mart:
Hasn't BP fought pretty much on the same level as Capt in HtH? Like their first meeting?
Originally posted by iceman24567
I thought he had one already? I agree if Punisher is considered second tier Black Panther and Dick Grayson should be moved op both are superior to Frank Castle imo
If he did get into second, he'd be one of the weaker fighters there. I'm fine with him where he is, as one of the better third tiers.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I highly doubt you're able to chop a person in the back of the neck unconscious in the middle of a fight. Forgive my disbelief. This prevarication sounds more like you're trying to manufacture some false distinction to cover up you're utterly wrong statement that Gamora's never used a pressure point attack "during the flow of combat" and are completely trying to rely on the notion Gamora can't use them against strong, durable and big-fisted opponents like Thing. And now a precise shot straight to the solar plexus somehow isn't a pressure point attack in comics because you could accomplish same? Don't use your self-centeredness to justify inane statements. Because you can't. Concession accepted. 80% of Gamora's pressure point attacks have one-shotted her opponents unconscious. You can't do much better than one-shotting the opponent unconscious short of permanently crippling or outright killing them. So let me know when you're able to prove that of 80% of Batman's pressure point attacks, they've rendered the foe completely unconscious or worse and you can pretend like you have a cogent argument. Oops. Guess you forgot where you typed this: Your quaneuvers are atrocious. Seriously.
Why do your posts become a wall of text when I quote you... it's weird...
Anyway. I think I could... but I wouldn't try, its incredibly dangerous to hit someone in the back of the neck like that, you could kill them. We're getting off topic though, so lets move on.
I don't think it counts as a pressure point. It's obviously an easily exploited weak spot in human anatomy for sure, but I think the two things can be mutually exclusive. I don't don't think that an attack aimed at the throat, temple, arm pit or testicles counts as a pressure point either. Those areas just seem.... I don't know, too pedestrian I guess? Counting a chop to the back of the brain stem as a pressure point broadens the classifications and opens the door to a whole host of other examples that don't exactly scream "skilled martial artist". A one shot blow to the solar plexus is a little different. For one it's in the center of the torso, not at the base of the neck, which makes it much less exposed and much harder to exploit. I'm not going to one shot someone by hitting them in the solar plexus, I don't even think I've ever seen that happen in a MMA fight (or at least I can remember it off the top of my head), which puts it outside the realm of something normal person could potentially do. Normally, it just winds someone. Clearly, it is an example of Gamora attacking a weak spot in the anatomy of her opponent, but like I said, I don't think that is enough to constitute the classification of it being a pressure point. If pressure points are a qualification of the upper echelon of skilled fighters in comicdom, then I don't a chop to the brain stem qualifies.
I don't know, maybe I could, I'm just not going to try because it doesn't matter. She has more pressure point feats as a percentage of her overall appearances? Maybe... but so what? What does that mean? What point are you trying to make? Are you saying that if she had an equal number of appearances as Batman that she would potentially have much more / better pressure point feats? Maybe she would, but guess what? That doesn't matter. We aren't here to theorize on what a character could potentially do in the future. We are here to do a thorough comparison of what they have done to date and come to a conclusion based on that. As of this moment she hasn't done anything to places her on the same level of skill as Batman let alone above him, and thats what matters. What she might do in the future is completely irrelevant. Maybe next week she will one shot Mantis, and if she does then you will have a leg to stand on, but until she does you are just aborting your fanfiction theories onto the forum.
Originally posted by iceman24567
I thought he had one already? I agree if Punisher is considered second tier Black Panther and Dick Grayson should be moved op both are superior to Frank Castle imo
That only works if we are operating under the assumption that everyone in each tier is equal. Even with in the confines of the tier system there is going to be a hierarchy with in each level. Someone in second tier is going to be the best fighter in the second tier (and therefor approaching first tier), and someone is going to be the worst fighter in second tier (barely above the third tier fighters).
I haven't decided if Frank should get moved up. He has some badass feats, but he has also been completely punked by Daredevil. Broken knee, ouch! His tenacity and damage soak are what make him a formidable h2h fighter, not necessarily his skill. I need to think about it...
Originally posted by Q99
Apparently we allow powers that are a result of skill, but not ones that give skill.It's sorta murky when you get people who's power and skill are so closely intertwined.
Okay.
Originally posted by Q99
So you'd want them bumped up?I think WW is one of the most skilled people in her tier as it is.
I'd be happier to bump Wonder Woman down, but seeing as how a lot of posters imagine that she's some martial arts goddess (Despite the lack of showings.), I think it's a safer endeavor to bump the two up.
I honestly had people claiming she was more skilled than Captain America and the likes or something as ridiculous.
L.O.L.
Batman One Million, Uber. Possibly cosmic but not enough showings for that.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'd be happier to bump Wonder Woman down, but seeing as how a lot of posters imagine that she's some martial arts goddess (Despite the lack of showings.), I think it's a safer endeavor to bump the two up.
She's got showings, and both Batman and Black Canary fanboy/girl her skills and technique.
If Batman and Canary treat their sparring matches as true contests of skill, and are impressed with Diana's performance in them, I think that says a lot. People in-universe definitely count her as top-tier.
Konton
That's how we're doing it? =/Then don't Elektra and Shang Chi deserve uber?
Apparently? Maybe? My preference was not counting chi stuff and keeping Danny at top tier.