Originally posted by Q99
She's got showings, and both Batman and Black Canary fanboy/girl her skills and technique.If Batman and Canary treat their sparring matches as true contests of skill, and are impressed with Diana's performance in them, I think that says a lot. People in-universe definitely count her as top-tier.
Batman doesn't count, he has an unusually high opinion of her. And like I've said before, word of mouth only takes you so damn far. Look at Mr. X.
Batman and Wonder Woman have had a sparring match? When? I recall him attacking her with the rest of the JLA when she was blind and stunning her with a blow to the head.
I know about the sparring match with Canary. I've reference it as the best hand to hand feat we've actually seen from Diana in some time. The Black Canary won that little match up or at least look superior by the way. And Wonder Woman had her super powers. Even if she was holding them in check, that is not something that can be overlooked.
Originally posted by iceman24567
I agree if Punisher is considered second tier Black Panther and Dick Grayson should be moved op both are superior to Frank Castle imo
Punisher stalemated a guy that beat BP. Bp shouldn't be second tier. Dick Grayson maybe top tier now but now when the table was first made. BP and possibly Dick should go up Pun stays where is.
Originally posted by Deadline
Punisher stalemated a guy that beat BP. Bp shouldn't be second tier. Dick Grayson maybe top tier now but now when the table was first made. BP and possibly Dick should go up Pun stays where is.
I think BP is either top of the second tier fighters or he lowest member of the top tier.
Originally posted by Deadline
Yes and whats wrong that? Are you saying that just because he had a fight with tiger Shark underwater that it automatically makes everything in that issue null and void?
also there several kravens how do you even know if they fought the same one? for starterts the original kraven is dead........which is the one black panther fought.......and died several years before punisher fought kraven.......which would mean they fought two completely different characters.......
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Becuase that issue was utter crap. He overpoiwered tiger shakr under water....it was absurd.
You realise you completely ignored what I said? Ok here it is again, please read what I said.
Originally posted by Deadline
Yes and whats wrong that? Are you saying that just because he had a fight with tiger Shark underwater that it automatically makes everything in that issue null and void?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
also there several kravens how do you even know if they fought the same one? for starterts the original kraven is dead........which is the one black panther fought.......and died several years before punisher fought kraven.......which would mean they fought two completely different characters.......
Its not the same im refering to Aloysha Kravinoff whos the son of the orginal. For your information hes actually humilated Kraven prior to that issue.
Originally posted by Deadline
You realise you completely ignored what I said? Ok here it is again, please read what I said.Its not the same im refering to Aloysha Kravinoff whos the son of the orginal. For your information hes actually humilated Kraven prior to that issue.
not to mention there are so many other wrong things with it.
and I not even sure what nonsenses your tyring to say here, be clearlier.
The guy Black Panther fought is not the same character Punisher faught, he was long dead. so punisher beating a different kraven matters becuase?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
I heard what you said and yes it pretty dam much makes it all pis when the first thing to happen is punisher over powering a class 100 under water dam right the issue is pis.not to mention there are so many other wrong things with it.
and I not even sure what nonsenses your tyring to say here, be clearlier.
Apart from the fact that YOU think there were other things wrong with it explain why everything else was crap. Try to be objective.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
The guy Black Panther fought is not the same character Punisher faught, he was long dead. so punisher beating a different kraven matters becuase?
As usual you don't know what you're talking about. Yes it was ,his son was dressed up like his father. Kraven the orginal has been dead for some years now.
Originally posted by Deadline
Apart from the fact that YOU think there were other things wrong with it explain why everything else was crap. Try to be objective.As usual you don't know what you're talking about. Yes it was ,his son was dressed up like his father. Kraven the orginal has been dead for some years now.
edit, your right they fought the same one. I believe you were talking about really old issue, which i could have sworn panther fought the original kraven with spiderman, but you are talking about a much more recent issue I realised. Though still does not stop it from being full out pis........and kraven was his last fight pretty much.....making it even worse.....
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Because it was a running guanlet and the first dam thing in hit has punisher doing a feat vastly beyond his abilities.
No it isn't. That Punisher was baed on classic Punisher and classic Punisher has humilated Cap in a fight. Cap has beaten namor underwater.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
which makes the rest of the fights to fallow even more absurd. The fact you try and defend it is pathetic. Maybe you should look at it objectively.
No it doesn't because his other showing to prove hes that tough eg doding a bloodlusted Spiderman while being severaly sleep deprived and he also fought Daken after going through a much worse gauntlet.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
edit, your right they fought the same one. I believe you were talking about really old issue, which i could have sworn panther fought the original kraven with spiderman, but you are talking about a much more recent issue I realised. Though still does not stop it from being full out pis........and kraven was his last fight pretty much.....making it even worse.....
IDLH IDH.
Does Talia Al'Ghul really fit in second?
She's good but I don't think she's honestly second.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Batman doesn't count, he has an unusually high opinion of her. And like I've said before, word of mouth only takes you so damn far. Look at Mr. X.
Yea, but I'd say she backs it up, and it's an opinion born of hands-on experience with the fighter in question.
Batman and Wonder Woman have had a sparring match? When? I recall him attacking her with the rest of the JLA when she was blind and stunning her with a blow to the head.
The Tower of Babel story had one, but I believe there were several throughout the Waid and Kelly era. There's references to them sparring a lot.
There was also an occasion when she brought Lady Shiva to the Watchtower for sparring.
I know about the sparring match with Canary. I've reference it as the best hand to hand feat we've actually seen from Diana in some time. The Black Canary won that little match up or at least look superior by the way.
Canary was amazed when she got a hit and was intimidated throughout.
And Wonder Woman had her super powers. Even if she was holding them in check, that is not something that can be overlooked.
Except both she and Canary treated it as a contest of skill and no speed, strength, or super-reaction were used in the fight, as has been mentioned.
If the Goddess of Truth says she's fighting for real on skill, I think we can believe her.
Plus Dinah fangirls about her technique often.
There's no evidence she was cheating using her powers, and it'd be out-of-character for her to do so. People with super-reaction can turn it off all the time in DC.