Comic Book Martial Artist Hierarchy

I think 7 votes are enough to move Terrific down now.

Originally posted by Deadline
Punisher stalemated a guy that beat BP. Bp shouldn't be second tier. Dick Grayson maybe top tier now but now when the table was first made. BP and possibly Dick should go up Pun stays where is.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Against Punisher to second

Originally posted by Deadline
Punisher stalemated a guy that beat BP. Bp shouldn't be second tier. Dick Grayson maybe top tier now but now when the table was first made. BP and possibly Dick should go up Pun stays where is. [QUOTE=12735436]Originally posted by iceman24567
I'll agree with that

Originally posted by batdude123
I think 7 votes are enough to move Terrific down now.

-The changes and additions that have been made are in bold, based on the following votes which are either lack any forthcoming opposition and/or have three vote majorities:
Gambit to third: 4 [ODG, Omega, snoop, Mungi] / 0
Mister Terrific to third: 7 / 2

-There is now an empty Marvel top tier slot.

Comic Book Martial Artist Hierarchy [205]

Cosmic Tier: (Transcendent Martial Artists) [3]
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis

Uber Tier: (Unearthly Martial Artists) [9]
Adam Warlock, Iron Fist, Kirigi (DC), Mandarin, Moondragon, O-Sensei, Ogun, Stick, Temugin

Top Tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉 [17]
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman (Bruce Wayne), Black Canary, Bronze Tiger, Captain America (Steve Rogers), Connor Hawke, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second Tier: (Master Martial Artists) [64]
Agent X, Alpha, Ares (DC), Artemis, Azrael, Backlash, Batman (Dick Grayson), Big Barda, Black Panther (T’Challa), Black Widow, Blade, Bucky Barnes, Bullseye, Cable, Captain Mar-Vell, Champion of the Universe, Cheshire, Crossbones, Daken, David Cain, Deadpool, Deathstroke, Domino, Donatello, Echo, Erik Killmonger, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Grifter, Hawkeye (Clint Barton), Hawkman, Jason Blood, Judomaster (Hadley Jagger), Karnak, Lady Deathstrike, Leonardo, Mad Dog Cain, Magnus, Michaelangelo, Midnight Sun, Mr Sensitive, Natas, Nick Fury, Nomad (Jack Monroe), Orion, Ozymandias (DC), Prometheus, Puck, Raphael, Ra's al Ghul, Ravager (Rose Wilson), Red Hood (Jason Todd), Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Steel Serpent, Stone, Talia al Ghul, Thanos, Twelve Brothers in Silk, Vandal Savage, White Tiger (Angela del Toro), Wildcat (Ted Grant), Wonder Woman, X-23, Zealot

Third Tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists) [71]
Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Arsenal, Bane, Beta Ray Bill, Black Bolt, Black Cat, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Caiera, Colleen Wing, Doctor Doom, Doctor Mid-Nite, Doctor Strange, Donna Troy, Drax, Duke (GI Joe), Gambit, Green Arrow (Oliver Queen), Grendel (Hunter Rose), Heavy Duty (GI Joe), Hercules, Hippolyta, Huntress, Kalibak, Katana, KGBeast, Kingpin, Lady Vic, Lashina, Lobo, Loki, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, Merlyn (DC), Midnighter, Mister America (Tex Thomson), Mister Terrific, Mockingbird, Moon Knight, Mystique, Namor, Night Thrasher, Nightcrawler, Omega Red, Onyx, Prodigy, Psylocke, Punisher, Red Robin (Tim Drake), Revanche, Robin (Damian Wayne), Sabretooth, Sage, Shadowcat, Shatterstar, Shrike IV (Boone), Speedy (Mia Dearden), Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Stacy X, Starfire, Terry McGinnis, The Question (Vic Sage), Thena, Thor, Typhoid Mary, US Agent, V, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wild Child, Wong, Yukio

Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artists) [41]
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Batwoman, Beast, Blink, Blue Devil, Boom Boom, Boy Blue, Cannonball, Carol Danvers, Catwoman, Cinderella, Colossus, Cyclops, Danielle Moonstar, Darkseid, Deathbird, Falcon, Hawkgirl, Invisible Woman, Iron Man, Jamie Madrox, Joker, Jubilee, Lex Luthor, Luke Cage, Mister Fantastic, Misty Knight, Nite Owl II, Prince Charming, Rorschach, She-Hulk, Spider-Man, Storm, Strong Guy, Superman, Tarantula, Thing, Two-Face, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wonder Man, Zauriel

Notes
-I'll leave this not here for a bit. N.B. I was tallying votes to determine whether there was consensus agreement on whether skill-based powers are to be included in the consideration of placement. While there was only one person who explicitly voted one way or the other, the Iron Fist vote seems to confirm that participants of this thread will be taking into account skill-based power. When I get a chance I may ask Digi to edit my opening posts with (both the updated hierarchy and) this clarification of what's under consideration.

-I should note that movement of either Canary or Drakon down without replacement will simply result in a vacant DC top tier slot.

-There is a vacant Marvel slot in the top tier.

-Beyond nomination for the Marvel top tier slot can people weigh in on the huge list below, before we move onto any new additions or changes for a bit? Particularly the Old Proposed Changes. I've taken the liberty of casting a few votes on some of the changes I agree with (although in general I'm avoiding voting or nominating changes, as the facilitator of the thread.)

Proposed Additions' Entry Points
Nemesis (Charis Adrastea) to second tier: 1 [Style] /
Kanto to second tier: 2 [Omega, comicfan] /
Mera to third: 1 [Omega] / 1 [comicfan]
Tombstone to fourth: 1 [Omega] /
Juggernaut to fourth: 1 [Omega] /
Faora to second:1 [Omega] /
Catman to second: 1 [srank] /
Savant (BoP) to second: 2 [Pr, Q99] /
Kang to third: 1 [Bentley] /

Old Proposed Changes
Jubilee to third: 3 [Cresh, Q99, Konton] / 4 [llag, Nataku, Blanket, Style]
Kingpin to second: 6 [Ize, V, jrod, srank, capt, Accel] / 7 [dmills, Soljer, llag, Macoy, Nataku, Blanket, Style]
Moon Knight to second: 6 [dmills, Ize, llagrok, Fake McCoy, Deadline, Mungi] / 5 [Soljer, capt, endrict, Blanket, YFZ]
Midnighter to second: 3 [Ize, Soljer, Blanket] / 4 [Style, endrict, srank, dmills]

New Proposed Changes
Gamora to uber: 8 [marwash, Ize, dmills, Omega, Konton, Q99, jalek, srank] / 6 [galactisishere, Tyrant, ODG, Blanket, Smurph, SuperiorTech]
Constantine Drakon to second: 1 [Q99] / 1 [srank]
or Drakon to uber: 1 [Q99] / 1 [Pr]
Tim Drake to second: 3 [X, Pr, MM] / 1 [Konton]
Black Canary to second: 3 [Omega, Pr, ODG] / 2 [srank, Konton]
Ares (Marvel) to second: 2 [ODG, comicfan] / 1 [jalek]
Hercules to second: 1 [comicfan] / 1 [jalek]
Gorgon to uber: 1 [dmills] /
Drax to second: 2 [dmills, AlmightyK] / 0
Superman to third: 1 [Pr]
Psylocke to replace Taskmaster: 1 [srank] / 1 [AlmightyK, Konton]
Punisher to second: 3 [YFZ, Deadline, Konton] / 2 [Q99, iceman]
Batgirl (Cass) to uber: 1 [Omega] / 2 [ODG, Konton]
Twelve Brothers to third: 1 [Q99] / 1 [Konton]
Thor to second: 1 [RAGE] /

Nominations for the Marvel Top Tier slot:
Black Panther: 2 [marwash, Q99] /
Psylocke: 1 [dmills] /
Sabretooth: 1 [dmills] /
Mr X: 1 [srank] / 1 [dmills]
X-23: 1 [Konton] /

P.S. I don't think I've missed any votes, but if I have or have made any mistakes then let me know/repost them.

For:

Gamora to Uber
Tim Drake to Second
Black Canary to Second
Superman to Third

Against:

Constantine Drakon to Second
Hercules to Second
Punisher to Second
Batgirl to Uber
Thor to Second

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

I'm against Superman to Third, mostly because if he was moved up then it would mean a lot of other moves to make sense of things. Ideally Superman belongs somewhere in between 4 and 3 but as it stands I don't like the idea of Superman being in the same tier as guys like Bane (who IMO should be 2nd tier anyhow) and Thor.

As is, Bane in the third tier makes little sense, and I see no reason why Superman can't be in the same tier as Thor.

2nd tier's getting pretty crowded. What good are tiers if they include a progressively wider range of people?

I think Superman's fine at four.

I guess I'll vote for Psylocke to take the vacant tier slot if her replacement of Tasky won't go through. She deserves it a hell of a lot more than BP.

Still think Taskmaster shouldn't be in top tier, though. His inclusion begs the question, why isn't Prometheus there as well?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
why isn't Prometheus there as well?

Truth.

For:

Savant to 2nd

Against:

Kingpin to 2nd
Superman to 3rd
Punisher to 2nd
Batgirl to uber
Thor to 2nd

I'd like to recall my vote for Marvel's top tier slot. Not sure if I want to give it to Psylocke, Echo or X-23.

Originally posted by batdude123
For:

Gamora to Uber
Tim Drake to Second
Black Canary to Second
Superman to Third

Against:

Constantine Drakon to Second
Hercules to Second
Punisher to Second
Batgirl to Uber
Thor to Second

What about Constantine Drakon to Uber? There's not a single top-tier that'd get even a split with him, IMO.

Originally posted by iceman24567
I'm only for Punisher moving up if Nightwing and Black Panther move up too

If Black Panther takes the open Marvel top tier slot, Nightwing still needs to displace someone from DC (presumably Canary since she's the one who seems most likely to move down - although I don't know if I'd take Nightwing over Canary). Etc. Etc.

Instead it's probably just best to give your opinion based on the make-up of the current hierarchy.

Originally posted by batdude123
I see no reason why Superman can't be in the same tier as Thor.

Woo, 4 for Drake to second.

Against Batgirl to Uber.
For Punisher to second
Against Superman to Third
For Black Canary to second.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Conditional votes aren't ideal to tally.

If Black Panther takes the open Marvel top tier slot, Nightwing still needs to displace someone from DC (presumably Canary since she's the one who seems most likely to move down - although I don't know if I'd take Nightwing over Canary). Etc. Etc.

Instead it's probably just best to give your opinion based on the make-up of the current hierarchy.

I agree with Iceman I also think that the top tier cap should be scrapped and we should put it to a vote. If someone is top tier they shouldn't have to displace somebody else because theres too many, thats unfair.

I can see why conidtional votes aren't ideal but in this situation its appropriate.

For Tim to second.
For Superman to third.
Against Drakon to 2nd.
For Batgirl to uber.