Comic Book Martial Artist Hierarchy

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Because it's not that clear to people how much of BP's fighting prowess is purely his skill, rather than his superhuman stats and vibranium weave suit.

He outmaneuvered wolverine, that had nothing to do with his vibranium suit

easily taking out karnak (twice) had nothing to do with his suit, all skill
http://img92.exs.cx/img92/9303/vsinh.jpg
the other time should be in his respect thread

it's been stated on-panel that him and daredevil are evenly matched and he's stalemated him as well

you have him in the same tier as black widow, two of t'challa's personal guard took her out in H2H, T'Challa bests them easily for practice.

he's fought and stalemated/beaten most of the people in the top tier with his skill alone, so i fail to see why he's not up there.

if stats are an issue how are people like wolverine up there?

The point is Superman isn't a renowed MA. PERIOD. He's good at what he does and good in h2h combat as mostly a brawler. It's effective and works well with his powerset. The fact is.. he gets the majority of his wins NOT via MA SKILL but because he's much stronger and faster than the foe he's facing. That isn't impressive MA skill in the least, which is what this thread is about.

impressive feat for BP:
http://img64.imageshack.us/i/white9.jpg/
http://img66.imageshack.us/i/white6.jpg/

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wait wait wait.. what is the determination for someone being moved. It was my understanding as with the old Tiers thread..... that for someone to be moved or taken off a tier... there had to be a good majority to do so. Gamora is being moved by a 10 for and 7 against vote. How on earth is that a good majority? So are you honestly moving people based on a simple majority vote. So one person could vote for something and if nobody is against it... it passes. What the hell is going on with this voting process?

I dunno I thought 7/10 was good enough.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The point is Superman isn't a renowed MA. PERIOD. He's good at what he does and good in h2h combat as mostly a brawler. It's effective and works well with his powerset. The fact is.. he gets the majority of his wins NOT via MA SKILL but because he's much stronger and faster than the foe he's facing. That isn't impressive MA skill in the least, which is what this thread is about.

^ Loki utterly tooled Sif in a fight with ease once way back. He was using a regular walking stick. She was using a sword. No magic.

Loki has also tooled all the Disir at once, only one of which dispatched one of Mephisto's elite demons with ease.

I can post scans later.

Originally posted by Deadline
I dunno I thought 7/10 was good enough.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Loki utterly tooled Sif in a fight with ease once way back. He was using a regular walking stick. She was using a sword. No magic.

Loki has also tooled all the Disir at once, only one of which apparently dispatched one of Mephisto's elite demons with ease.

I can post scans later.

👆

Loki is a formidable swordsman.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I somewhat agree with this but must add that I can't understand why Loki is Third Tier. You seem to suggest that to be in Third Tier requires reputation/renown yet Loki isn't renowned, in fact most people think of Loki and picture a effete trickster who would fight Thor with limp-wristed slaps if it came to it.

He's more-so than Superman.

It's not what he's primarily known for, but take a look at him vs the Disir (basically Bor's version of the Valkyries, only undead cannibals) here:
Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4

Even with his focus being in magic he is still a skilled and agile fighter of Asgard who can use blade or fist with ability.

if there are people in tiers that don't belong there, cast your vote to move their asses out; don't degrade a tier by adding more scrubs to it. Superman needs to keep his keester in the 4th tier... period!

Yea, if we bump up more and more people, then the tiers get scrunched and mean less as a result.

I really do think there should be a tier between three and four for all the people who aren't world class MAs but are more than just 'decent fighters'.

Originally posted by Deadline
I dunno I thought 7/10 was good enough.

HUH?

10 For
7 Against

don't equal 7/10 nor is it a good majority

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wait wait wait.. what is the determination for someone being moved. It was my understanding as with the old Tiers thread..... that for someone to be moved or taken off a tier... there had to be a good majority to do so. Gamora is being moved by a 10 for and 7 against vote. How on earth is that a good majority? So are you honestly moving people based on a simple majority vote. So one person could vote for something and if nobody is against it... it passes. What the hell is going on with this voting process?

It can be changed to a percentage-based system, I guess.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I somewhat agree with this but must add that I can't understand why Loki is Third Tier. You seem to suggest that to be in Third Tier requires reputation/renown yet Loki isn't renowned, in fact most people think of Loki and picture a effete trickster who would fight Thor with limp-wristed slaps if it came to it.

Despite what ODG just said.. I agree with you Omega and don't think Loki belongs there either. If I saw more stuff from him that was MA skill related I could change my mind. This is exactly why I moved for Loki, Doctor Doom and others I forgot to be moved down to Supermans level. So I'm not in disagreement with you either. Like 6 should be moved down not superman up imo

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I really do think there should be a tier between three and four for all the people who aren't world class MAs but are more than just 'decent fighters'.

I think this is largely due to the "taglines" beside each tier which are meant to be vaguely descriptive of the constituents of the tier, but don't in themselves qualify a character for a tier.

Being a master of a martial art doesn't make one second tier. And simply being a skilled martial artist doesn't make one third tier. The tiers are defined by their constituents, not vice versa.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The moves are generally based on a 3-vote majority, which usually works out to >60% consensus either for or against a change. This, of course, diminishes the more votes there are - but there usually aren't as many votes on a change as the Gamora one.

It can be changed to a percentage-based system, I guess.

So you're saying 10 for and 7 against was a good enough majority?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Those who are just 'decent fighters' should probably be in the fourth tier... 😬

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I said "more than" just decent fighters.

Creating entirely new tiers would be counterproductive.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So you're saying 10 for and 7 against was a good enough majority?

The Gamora vote is more an exception than a norm, in that it doesn't make greater than 60% in favor, due to there being a particularly higher number of votes, being 58.8%. An 11 to 7 vote would put it above 60% at 61.1%.

If people prefer we can move to a percentage-based system, however it involves a considerable amount more work to tally.

Or we can make the threshold for a move higher, however in doing so I think it would bring to a grinding halt any changes made to the hierarchy.

My vote against Gamora being cosmic is based on the fact that I haven't seen anything from her that firmly puts her a tier above the other ubers. I'm open to change, but as of now I just don't see it.