Originally posted by batdude123
Hate.
I'm not a Superman expert or die hard fan, but from what I've read of him, especially during some of the more recent New Krypton stuff, Kal's a very exceptional fighter. It's not like people want to put him on Gamora's or even Batman's level of martial artistry, and he DOES have feats to warrant a legit argument to bump him up a tier.
Batdude123
Aquaman, Loki, Lobo, Thor, Hercules, Dr. Doom, Kalibak, Orion (who's somehow 2nd tier), Beta Ray Bill, etc.
Ehhhh... no. Those people are significantly more melee skill focused than Superman, especially Aquaman, Herc, Thor, and BRB.
Loki, despite his apparent focus on magic, is a masterful combatant and recently dealt with a large group of armed and highly skilled foes who were as strong or stronger than him, largely through melee skill.
Doom's got a few good hand to hand feats unarmored like taking out a lion, which is the only reason he's not bumped down.
If you think they don't deserve their spot, vote them down, and I can see arguments for doing so in some cases. I think it makes more sense than voting Superman up, because there's quite a few fourth tiers more skilled than him.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm not a Superman expert or die hard fan, but from what I've read of him, especially during some of the more recent New Krypton stuff, Kal's a very exceptional fighter. It's not like people want to put him on Gamora's or even Batman's level of martial artistry, and he DOES have feats to warrant a legit argument to bump him up a tier.
He is *very* good... at applying his powers. When we see him train hard and get a skill plus, it's in using his powers in combination better and more easily.
His hand to hand ability, while reasonable, is not particularly exceptional, and when he's spent time non-powered or low-powered, he's ok but IMO quite at hope in tier four.
It's like, say, Green Arrow and Hawkeye and bows. If archery skill counted, they've be top tier, but only martial arts skill does. Superman has great move-at-super-speed, precisely-apply-super-strength, pin-point-target-with-super-vision, combat-flight, etc. skills, but that's something else. He can't pull off nerve hits without those powers, and I can't think of anything he's done non-powered that Batgirl/Barbara Gordon couldn't do.
Superman's one of the best there is at using his powers, with only a few even coming close. His martial arts skills, however, are less-so, and a lot of his better martial arts feats are reliant on said powers, and he gets depowered often enough for us to see how good he is without them.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
What? I'd people think that Superman should belong to tier 3,why not a guy who has defeated and killed some of the most accompished fighters of his era and trained since childhood?
You really think that with martial ability alone, Apoc deserves to be in the same tier as Batman? Does he have any feats to suggest this much?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You really think that with martial ability alone, Apoc deserves to be in the same tier as Batman? Does he have any feats to suggest this much?
the entire ROA storyline was posted by Bad_Ash in the
second page of his respect thread. He killed 4 trained warriors in 2 pages. And he was unarmed while they had weapons.
Originally posted by Q99
Even if he was good once (and not Batman good, being a strong ancient warrior isn't enough to be top tier), I'd think that'd have atrophied, due to him specializing instead in the use of his massively strong body and powers, which isn't too agile or suited for that kind of thing.
what's to say that he stopped training after he accuired celestial tech? He is thousands of years old and who knows how many forms of MA he knows. He is atleast deserving of tier 5 IMO.
Originally posted by marwash22
i love how an opposing view is automatically "throwing a hissy fit". Oh, what wonderful hypocrisy.Both myself and Q99 have repeatedly offered valid reasoning for keeping Supes in 4th, all we've received in return is fradulant scans and claims of "hate".
Or rather "Nuh Uh' rebuttals and laughable bias.
Oh wait, you must be talking about when you exercised your master level knowledge of Superman and downplayed the 'Smoke and Mirrors' scan.
Indeed, yours is truly a legitimate, honest vote.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
what's to say that he stopped training after he accuired celestial tech? He is thousands of years old and who knows how many forms of MA he knows.
Well, I can't think of any time I've seen him do that, and he's simply more effective with his other abilities. I mean, who needs to know several more ways to throw a punch when you can grow an energy cannon instead?
Originally posted by Martian_mind
Stay on the topics that REALLY matter guys.That's 2/0 in favour Blue Devil to Third and 2/0 in favour of Magog to third.
I don't think I've seen anything from Blue Devil that suggests third, I tend to see him as a fourth.
I think people are forgetting that *fourth is good too*.