Comic Book Martial Artist Hierarchy

Originally posted by Martian_mind
He's around about 8-10 years old IIRC.

However, his genetics are often referred to as perfect, so he's physically above anyone else that age. Drake and Todd have both been able to grab him mid attack and drop him with no visible effort, and they're 18 and 19 respectively.

Plus he was losing to cannon fodder ninja's, and was directly outfought by a trio Dick defeated, even having to ask him to take over. That's bottom rung shit right there.

I did not know that I havent really read much on him he kinda seems like a pussy to be honest.

10 year old kid is a lot different physically then 18 year old though.

Dick pretty physically dominant border line superhuman level agility and he one bad ass fighter. Damien from what I seen seems phsyically weak and more a kid then anyother hero. I not sure if it really skill or the fact he physically not on other levels and emotionally, though it very well could simply be due to skill. I really have zero problem with him being in fourth tier.

Concerning Katana, I think she's 2nd tier material. Getting owned (while injured) by Shiva isn't exactly a mark against her.

Notes:
-The voting system has been amended slightly, although for the most part a three-vote majority will generally apply.
Total Votes | Majority Needed
3-11 | 3-vote majority
12-16 | 4-vote majority
17-19 | 5-vote majority
20+ | 63% in favor/opposed

-There is one top tier Marvel slot currently open. I will be counting affirmative votes for the contenders only, as a vote for one is essentially a vote against the other.

-"Write-in votes" of other characters are also acceptable but without additional support they'll probably end up being discarded, as with Sabretooth, X23 etc. Although I can also tally "No votes" indicating you think neither deserves the top tier spot.

-I should note that movement of either Canary down without replacement will simply result in a vacant DC top tier slot.

Proposed Additions' Entry Points
Nemesis (Charis Adrastea) to second tier: 2 [comicfan, Style] /
Kanto to second tier: 2 [Omega, comicfan] /
Mera to third: 1 [Omega] / 1 [comicfan]
Tombstone to fourth: 1 [Omega] /
Juggernaut to fourth: 1 [Omega] /
Faora to second:1 [Omega] /
Savant (BoP) to second: 3 [marwash, Pr, Q99] / 1 [Konton]
Kang to third: 1 [Bentley] /
King Snake to third: 1 [marwash] /
Master Po to uber: 1 [srank] /
Master Izo to uber: 1 [srank] /
Magog to third: 2 [MM, comicfan] /
Mister Majestic to third: 1 [Omega] /
Nova to fourth: 1 [dmills] /

Proposed Changes
Jubilee to third: 3 [Cresh, Q99, Konton] / 5 [comicfan, llag, Nataku, Blanket, Style]
Moon Knight to second: 6 [dmills, Ize, llagrok, Fake McCoy, Deadline, Mungi] / 5 [Soljer, capt, endrict, Blanket, YFZ]
Midnighter to second: 3 [Ize, Soljer, Blanket] / 5 [Konton, Style, endrict, srank, dmills]
Gamora to uber: 9 [battlehammer, Spire, batdude, marwash, Ize, dmills, Q99, jalek, srank] / 7 [Kurupt, galactisishere, Tyrant, ODG, Blanket, Smurph, SuperiorTech]
Drakon to uber: 1 [Q99] / 2 [Pr, Konton]
Black Canary to second: 6 [Spire, Kurupt, MM, Omega, Pr, ODG] / 5 [batdude, marwash, srank, Konton, Q99]
Ares (Marvel) to second: 2 [ODG, comicfan] / 1 [jalek]
Gorgon to uber: 2 [srank, Trackz] / 1 [AlmightyK]
Drax to second: 3 [dmills, AlmightyK, Bentley] / 1 [Kurupt]
Superman to third: 12 [Jake, Bentley, srank, Style, Omega, twigg, jalek, Spire, Phil, batdude, Pr, ODG] / 8 [Q99, dmills, comicfan, RAGE, Kurupt, Blanket, MM, marwash]
Nick Fury to third: 2 [Bentley, Q99] / 0
Lobo to fourth: 1 [Kurupt] /
Loki to fourth: 1 [Kurupt] /
Doctor Doom to fourth: 1 [Kurupt] /
Beta Ray Bill to fourth: 1 [Kurupt] /
Kalibak to fourth: 2 [Kurupt, Q99] /
Blue Devil to third: 2 [MM, comicfan] / 1 [Q99]
Nightcrawler to fourth: 2 [marwash, Q99] /
Robin (Damian) to fourth: 2 [MM, Battlehammer?] /
Katana to second: 1 [marwash]

Nominations for the Marvel Top Tier slot:
Black Panther: 4 [comicfan, Trackz, Juk3n?, Bentley]
Psylocke: 5 [Konton, dmills, srank, Omega, marwash]

P.S. I don't think I've missed any votes, but if I have or have made any mistakes then let me know/repost them.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I thought he was about pre teens, but I dident want to say 11 and have him being 15 lol.

I did not know that I havent really read much on him he kinda seems like a pussy to be honest.

10 year old kid is a lot different physically then 18 year old though.

Dick pretty physically dominant border line superhuman level agility and he one bad ass fighter. Damien from what I seen seems phsyically weak and more a kid then anyother hero. I not sure if it really skill or the fact he physically not on other levels and emotionally, though it very well could simply be due to skill. I really have zero problem with him being in fourth tier.

Dick's best showings against Tim and Jason are a stalemate and barely managing to knock a Jason who'd had his skull bashed in with a crowbar an hour earlier at best off a train. He's the least combat effective son of the bat, and Jason has been show to be just as agile as him on two occasions.

If Damien was skilled enough for third tier, he'd be able to overcome his size and strength disadvantage. I mean Barbara Gordon recently took down a group of league of assassin ninja by her lonesome, and she's in a wheelchair and a tier below Damien.

So you vote yes to moving Damien down?

against lowering night crawler. he extremely skilled h2h. He been training for decades with one of marvels best MA's who also happens to be his friend. He displayed knowledge in numerous styles and is one of the most accurate attackers on there in many regards.

against lowering Nick Fury. there are plenty of guys who would need to be lowered with or before him. Nick gone toe to toe with Capt and regularly sparred with him. He shown great amount of skills before, even hanging with wolverine, beating stonewall ect.

also against mid nighter and drax to second tier. for superman to third.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

So you vote yes to moving Damien down?

You dont think Dick would beat Tim?

Originally posted by Martian_mind
I mean Barbara Gordon recently took down a group of league of assassin ninja by her lonesome, and she's in a wheelchair and a tier below Damien.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
against lowering night crawler. he extremely skilled h2h. He been training for decades with one of marvels best MA's who also happens to be his friend. He displayed knowledge in numerous styles and is one of the most accurate attackers on there in many regards.

against lowering Nick Fury. there are plenty of guys who would need to be lowered with or before him. Nick gone toe to toe with Capt and regularly sparred with him. He shown great amount of skills before, even hanging with wolverine, beating stonewall ect.

also against mid nighter and drax to second tier. for superman to third.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yup.

You dont think Dick would beat Tim?

They've fought twice.

When Tim was Robin, they stalemated.
When Tim was Red Robin, it ended with his staff about to crush Dicks throat.

Tim's done better against Jason then Dick ever has.
Tim's done better with Shiva then Dick ever has.
Tim's fought Cassie twice and looked better both times (PIS I know)

Ra's has even said Tim is THE most dangerous of Batman proteges.

Ya, I think Tim could take Dick.

I'm going to retract my old Jubilee to third vote, I've re-thought my approach since then.

Also, I'm not going to vote against Blue Devil. I'm unsure of his qualifications but don't have enough knowledge to vote.

im for jublee to third.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Ya, I think Tim could take Dick.

Juvinility aside, I think a fight between the two would probably be very even.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
vin

Juvinility aside, I think a fight between the two would probably be very even.

I'm shocked I missed that.

Yeah, it would be close, but I'd put my money on Tim for the most part.

Kalibak to fourth, I'll rethink my Nick Fury vote if anyone has an argument -I learned he koed the U-foes recently-.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
They've fought twice.

When Tim was Robin, they stalemated.
When Tim was Red Robin, it ended with his staff about to crush Dicks throat.

Tim's done better against Jason then Dick ever has.
Tim's done better with Shiva then Dick ever has.
Tim's fought Cassie twice and looked better both times (PIS I know)

Ra's has even said Tim is THE most dangerous of Batman proteges.

Ya, I think Tim could take Dick.

QUESTION....

There is a minimum vote requirement right? I mean one person can't vote and thus it goes through correct?

Originally posted by Q99
But doesn't that apply to most other tier fours, like Rorschach and Batwoman?

who said it didn't?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
QUESTION....

There is a minimum vote requirement right? I mean one person can't vote and thus it goes through correct?

See: Just above the list of proposed changes.

Maybe we need a tier 5, for those who really aren't good fighters... since even tier 4 represents significant skill judging by it's current lineup.

Originally posted by -Pr-
who said it didn't?

Well if it applies to tier 4s, then it's not really proof of him being a tier three, is it?

Originally posted by Q99
Maybe we need a tier 5, for those who really aren't good fighters... since even tier 4 represents significant skill judging by it's current lineup.

Well if it applies to tier 4s, then it's not really proof of him being a tier three, is it?

Tier 5 isn't listed because essentially it's "everybody else."

The fourth tier should range from reasonably skilled fighters to those that just make the hierarchy.