Originally posted by Omega Vision
Wasn't Shiva poisoned when Tim fought her?
In the latest showing she was. He was able to beat her in a sparring session when he was just starting as Robin through the use of strategy,and has managed to break out of one of her locks and get her into his own before.
Dicks experience with Shiva in Knightfall was to be one-shotted.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm considering proposing moving Blade back down. Mainly because I believe he was moved up in part due to his sword skills, and it appears that the thread-dwellers are of the collective notion that it's easier to remove weapons skill from consideration.
I agree placement based on an individual weapon system is tricky. I mean, Green Arrow is third tier right now, and comparatively he is leagues better with a bow than Blade is with a sword. Are we saying sword play is more relevant than marksmanship with a bow? Blade isn't even that skilled with a sword anyway, he's been soundly beaten by a nobody vampire before.
Originally posted by Q99I had no idea what that was, had to google it. From what i read about it... That's a stretch. I'm not downplaying it's legitimacy, but it's not what you think of when considering martial arts skill. On the flip side, swords typically go hand in hand with martial arts.
'Kyudo,' or the way of the bow. It's considered prestigious to learn in Japan.
Remember that movie, Equilibrium? They had a martial art based on guns. Are we gonna start giving extra credit for people who are exceptional with guns? If that's the case, Deadpool needs a bump.
Srank's statement that weapons are a "tricky" matter is probably the most accurate so far. Personally, I just assumed we were sticking to melee weapons when judging skill.
There are nearly as many armed martial arts as unarmed martial arts, so excluding all but swords and staffs seems strange when expressed formally.
Including all weapons would probably make for a confusing placement process; then again, a strict hand to hand requirement means people will drop down or will be removed entirely.
Maybe another, weapons based thread is in order?
Originally posted by StyleTime
Srank's statement that weapons are a "tricky" matter is probably the most accurate so far. Personally, I just assumed we were sticking to melee weapons when judging skill.There are nearly as many armed martial arts as unarmed martial arts, so excluding all but swords and staffs seems strange when expressed formally.
Including all weapons would probably make for a confusing placement process; then again, a strict hand to hand requirement means people will drop down or will be removed entirely.
Maybe another, weapons based thread is in order?
Originally posted by marwash22
that doesn't really correlate. Mastery of a weapon, be t sword, staff or sai, is still using a form of combat. Mastery of the speed force, has jack squat to do with fighting.
Originally posted by marwash22
I agree about the weapons angle. However, swordsmanship is hardly comparable to being proficient with a bow. There are actual martial arts forms based on swordsmanship, not so much with archery.
That isn't exactly true. Many martial arts incorporate archery (on horse back or otherwise) or did at one time or another in there teachings. It was the most powerful weapon system on earth for a loooooooooooong time.
Originally posted by srankmissingninMy point is being misunderstood.
That isn't exactly true. Many martial arts incorporate archery (on horse back or otherwise) or did at one time or another in there teachings. It was the most powerful weapon system on earth for a loooooooooooong time.
I'm not arguing that archery isn't a viable form of combat or that it's roots aren't based in a legitimate discipline. My point is that, guns (which are effectively, modern bow and arrows) have been one of the most powerful weapon systems on Earth, for a loooooooooooooooong time now. But being a proficient marksman is not a martial art in the traditional sense, not like swordsmanship. Unlike a bow, a sword can actually be used in h2h fights because it's essentially an extension of your arm.
please don't counter the last part with "but people use the bow as a weapon in close combat all the time"... well that's not really the primary use for a bow, is it?
If your opinion differs, i suggest you recommend Green Arrow and Connor to be bumped up to their respective, next tiers. Then move Batman to uber, because if we're putting stock into archery, shuriken use has to account for something special as well.
Eh, i recommend weapons (with exception to the sword, for reasons already explained) not being apart of this at all 'cause it muddies the water too much. Keeping it strictly based on h2h skill would be best.
Speaking of Archers, i propose Shado to be added to 4th tier.
Originally posted by marwash22
True. But how exactly does that translate into actual fighting skill? Your example would be pertinent, only if this were the "Comic Book Tactician Hierarchy".Using your logic, a few Lanterns would be top tier candidates based on how they use their rings in battle.
I'm mostly arguing against the consideration of any weapon/power skills in the ranking.
Originally posted by Omega Vision👆 oh, ok.
Which is my point exactly. Weapon skill/skill using powers in combat might qualify by the technical definition of Martial Arts but its clear that the original intent of this listing was to rank people based on unarmed, hand to hand combat skills.I'm mostly arguing against the consideration of any weapon/power skills in the ranking.
Originally posted by xmarksthespothe has considerable mastery of hand-to-hand, it's just that he is more adept in armed
I'm considering proposing moving Blade back down. Mainly because I believe he was moved up in part due to his sword skills, and it appears that the thread-dwellers are of the collective notion that it's easier to remove weapons skill from consideration.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think if you include all weapons skill then it really doesn't make much less sense to include skill in use of special powers, in which case Walter West would be a Second Tier/Top Tier because of his mastery of the Speed Force. 😬
Still, I imagine things like Speed Force use would be excluded even in a weapons thread.
Even then, there's an argument for it.