Comic Book Martial Artist Hierarchy

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I agree placement based on an individual weapon system is tricky. I mean, Green Arrow is third tier right now, and comparatively he is leagues better with a bow than Blade is with a sword. Are we saying sword play is more relevant than marksmanship with a bow? Blade isn't even that skilled with a sword anyway, he's been soundly beaten by a nobody vampire before.

OH SNAP!

Um, Blade is fine where he is.

I will blow this mother fvcking thread to smithereens if Blade gets knocked down to a tier in which Superman is getting serious consideration for placement in.

Originally posted by Trackz
once again, nice job trying to low-ball a character. before he even had his vampiric powers he took out a vampire who was the best fencer in the world before being turned, he did this only using a stake. but of course, we'll take the low-end feat because it clearly outnumbers the vast number of opponents he has beaten with a sword.

😆

I don't remember that, but I have a feeling like everything else you think Blade's done its a bunch of bs. So, why don't you give me the issue number for Blade beating "the best fencer in the world," and then I will let everyone know what actually happened and not your delusional fanfic interpretation.

Originally posted by marwash22
Um, Blade is fine where he is.

I will blow this mother fvcking thread to smithereens if Blade gets knocked down to a tier in which Superman is getting serious consideration for placement in.

Dude, like 50% of the fighters in tier three are more skilled than Blade....

Proposing a move of Falcon to 2nd tier.

I mean, he's spent the majority of Brubakers run on Cap being pretty impressive in h2h, and combined with his feats from various other appearances, I'd say he's good enough to stand with some in second.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
😆

I don't remember that, but I have a feeling like everything else you think Blade's done its a bunch of bs. So, why don't you give me the issue number for Blade beating "the best fencer in the world," and then I will let everyone know what actually happened and not your delusional fanfic interpretation.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Dude, like 50% of the fighters in tier three are more skilled than Blade....

I count 4 people that you can definitively say are better than blade in the third tier; and it's really only 3 because Terrific is mostly word of mouth... his mouth. Who are these other 30+ people you speak of?

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Proposing a move of Falcon to 2nd tier.

I mean, he's spent the majority of Brubakers run on Cap being pretty impressive in h2h, and combined with his feats from various other appearances, I'd say he's good enough to stand with some in second.

There still an ass ton of Third Tier fighters who would beat him out right or give him a completive fight though in just skill though.

Ares (Marvel), Arsenal, Bane, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Colleen Wing, Duke (GI Joe), Gambit, Green Arrow (Oliver Queen), Grendel (Hunter Rose), KGBeast, Kingpin, Moon Knight, Mystique, Night Thrasher, Nightcrawler, Omega Red, Psylocke, Punisher, Revanche, Sabretooth, Sage, Shadowcat, Shatterstar, Typhoid Mary, US Agent, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wild Child, Yukio

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
There still an ass ton of Third Tier fighters who would beat him out right or give him a completive fight though in just skill though.

Ares (Marvel), Arsenal, Bane, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Colleen Wing, Duke (GI Joe), Gambit, Green Arrow (Oliver Queen), Grendel (Hunter Rose), KGBeast, Kingpin, Moon Knight, Mystique, Night Thrasher, Nightcrawler, Omega Red, Psylocke, Punisher, Revanche, Sabretooth, Sage, Shadowcat, Shatterstar, Typhoid Mary, US Agent, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wild Child, Yukio

You have a fair point there.

Nominating him to third then I guess.

Although we should really move Psylocke to 2nd, considering she's being considered for the top tier spot xD

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Dude, like 50% of the fighters in tier three are more skilled than Blade....

nah, he can't. In the short time I've been here on a consistent basis, I have noticed that sometimes he'll just throw random shit on the wall to see what sticks and no one calls him out on it.

Notes:
-The voting system has been amended slightly, although for the most part a three-vote majority will generally apply.
Total Votes | Majority Needed
3-11 | 3-vote majority
12-16 | 4-vote majority
17-19 | 5-vote majority
20+ | 63% in favor/opposed

-Midnighter to second will be defeated soon. Kalibak to fourth will pass in the next update unless there's opposition.

-There is one top tier Marvel slot currently open. I will be counting affirmative votes for the contenders only, as a vote for one is essentially a vote against the other.

-"Write-in votes" of other characters are also acceptable but without additional support they'll probably end up being discarded, as with Sabretooth, X23 etc. Although I can also tally "No votes" indicating you think neither deserves the top tier spot.

-I should note that movement of either Canary down without replacement will simply result in a vacant DC top tier slot.

Proposed Additions' Entry Points
Nemesis (Charis Adrastea) to second tier: 2 [comicfan, Style] /
Kanto to second tier: 2 [Omega, comicfan] /
Mera to third: 1 [Omega] / 1 [comicfan]
Tombstone to fourth: 1 [Omega] /
Juggernaut to fourth: 1 [Omega] /
Faora to second:1 [Omega] /
Savant (BoP) to second: 3 [marwash, Pr, Q99] / 1 [Konton]
Kang to third: 1 [Bentley] /
King Snake to third: 1 [marwash] /
Master Po to uber: 1 [srank] /
Master Izo to uber: 1 [srank] /
Magog to third: 2 [MM, comicfan] /
Mister Majestic to third: 1 [Omega] /
Nova to fourth: 1 [dmills] /
Shado to fourth: 1 [marwash] /
Seven Deadly Brothers to ???: Prep-Man

Proposed Changes
Jubilee to third: 3 [Cresh, Battlehammer, Konton] / 5 [comicfan, llag, Nataku, Blanket, Style]
Moon Knight to second: 6 [dmills, Ize, llagrok, Fake McCoy, Deadline, Mungi] / 5 [Soljer, capt, endrict, Blanket, YFZ]
Midnighter to second: 3 [Ize, Soljer, Blanket] / 6 [Battlehammer, Konton, Style, endrict, srank, dmills]
Gamora to uber: 9 [battlehammer, Spire, batdude, marwash, Ize, dmills, Q99, jalek, srank] / 7 [Kurupt, galactisishere, Tyrant, ODG, Blanket, Smurph, SuperiorTech]
Drakon to uber: 1 [Q99] / 2 [Pr, Konton]
Black Canary to second: 6 [Spire, Kurupt, MM, Omega, Pr, ODG] / 5 [batdude, marwash, srank, Konton, Q99]
Ares (Marvel) to second: 2 [ODG, comicfan] / 1 [jalek]
Gorgon to uber: 2 [srank, Trackz] / 1 [AlmightyK]
Drax to second: 3 [dmills, AlmightyK, Bentley] / 2 [Kurupt, Battlehammer]
Superman to third: 13 [Battlehammer, Jake, Bentley, srank, Style, Omega, twigg, jalek, Spire, Phil, batdude, Pr, ODG] / 8 [Q99, dmills, comicfan, RAGE, Kurupt, Blanket, MM, marwash]
Nick Fury to third: 2 [Bentley, Q99] / 2 [jalek, battlehammer]
Lobo to fourth: 1 [Kurupt] /
Loki to fourth: 1 [Kurupt] /
Doctor Doom to fourth: 1 [Kurupt] /
Beta Ray Bill to fourth: 1 [Kurupt] /
Kalibak to fourth: 3 [Kurupt, Q99, Bentley] / 0
Blue Devil to third: 2 [MM, comicfan] / 0
Nightcrawler to fourth: 2 [marwash, Q99] / 1 [battlehammer]
Robin (Damian) to fourth: 2 [MM, Battlehammer] /
Katana to second: 1 [marwash]
Blade to third: 2 [srank, Kfish] / 2 [Trackz, marwash]

Nominations for the Marvel Top Tier slot:
Black Panther: 4 [comicfan, Trackz, Juk3n?, Bentley]
Psylocke: 5 [Konton, dmills, srank, Omega, marwash]

P.S. I don't think I've missed any votes, but if I have or have made any mistakes then let me know/repost them.

Against Kalibak to Fourth
For Kang to Third

Originally posted by dmills
Blade aside for a moment, I've seen you repeat this line a few times regarding other characters. Can you define what you think qualifies one comic book character as being more skilled then another? All things being equal of course.

The most important judge of skill for a comic book character is the character demonstrating an ability preform well outside the relative limits of their attributes. That that more or less gives you a short list of the first tier fighters and a few characters very close to first tier who aren't permitted to be considered first tier right now only do to the limited number of spots (ie Black Panther). From there you look at the fights between all the characters and see how they have have competed with each other in the past and if anyone had an edge in each fight who was it and why. A lot of the fights especially between two heroes have circumstances that need to be considered that put the outcome of the fight in question. That will give you a working list of a skill hierarchy but a lot of Character X = Character Y do to the nature of comic fights and stalemates, so I refine the order by narration and opinions of other established fighters and their enemies when the are given as long as the don't seem absurd (ie Black Canary being more skilled than Batman). Training and isolated skill feats that don't take place in actual fights can be important but are secondary.

It's mostly about what a character knows and who they have beaten, and failing that what other characters think about their skill.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
You have a fair point there.

Nominating him to third then I guess.

Although we should really move Psylocke to 2nd, considering she's being considered for the top tier spot xD

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The most important judge of skill for a comic book character is the character demonstrating an ability preform well outside the relative limits of their attributes. That that more or less gives you a short list of the first tier fighters and a few characters very close to first tier who aren't permitted to be considered first tier right now only do to the limited number of spots (ie Black Panther). From there you look at the fights between all the characters and see how they have have competed with each other in the past and if anyone had an edge in each fight who was it and why. A lot of the fights especially between two heroes have circumstances that need to be considered that put the outcome of the fight in question. That will give you a working list of a skill hierarchy but a lot of Character X = Character Y do to the nature of comic fights and stalemates, so I refine the order by narration and opinions of other established fighters and their enemies when the are given as long as the don't seem absurd (ie Black Canary being more skilled than Batman). Training and isolated skill feats that don't take place in actual fights can be important but are secondary.

It's mostly about what a character knows and who they have beaten, and failing that what other characters think about their skill.

Originally posted by Trackz
which means if the character operates outside of the mainstream, they would be seen as unskilled.

That's the reality of the situation. If a character isn't contending with other established fighters how can we place them? Killing canon fodder and demonstrating skill with a weapon isn't enough. These are a comic books everyone who uses a weapon or fights is skilled, but that doesn't make them all equal. Obviously you'd like to place Blade higher because you like him, but don't let that cloud your objectivity. One of the best skill feats / fights (or at least one of my favourites) involves Viper taking it to Bishop and Rachel... but I don't think she deserves a higher placement than she has (well... maybe another tier up would be fine, but what ever) because I've also seen her contend with other established fighters, I've seen her get beat down by Black Window, so I know where she should be on the list. Is Blade good with a sword? Yes, but these are comic book characters and so is everyone else. But he isn't Swordsman good, and he isn't Black Knight good and he certainly isn't Silver Samurai good.

So Silver Samurai beating some cannon fodder robot is enough to get him a high ranking?

@Trackz,
I like his general definition. But you're right that non mainstream characters take a large hit. That's how Supes to 3rd tier over Rorshoch, and Majestic not even being on the list happens.