Originally posted by snoopdogg
So Silver Samurai beating some cannon fodder robot is enough to get him a high ranking?
Baymax is a member of Big Hero Six created by a Cho-esq child genuis, with class 70 strength and every combat skilled and martial art Hiro could find programmed into database.
He also has better showings against Wolverine than a lot of established fighters.
Originally posted by dmills
@Trackz,
I like his general definition. But you're right that non mainstream characters take a large hit. That's how Supes to 3rd tier over Rorshoch, and Majestic not even being on the list happens.
With the "mainstream" characters we know established levels they operate at and the by extension the level of the villains they are fighting. If a character comes and proves he is more skilled than Iron Fist, then you know that same character would likely be more skilled than Daredevil. If someone schools Blade in swords man ship, what can we say about his skill based on that? Not much. We don't have anything to place Blade's skill level and by extension nothing to place the skill level of his enemies. There is an inherit ambiguousness in the feats of characters who are largely operating in their own isolated world. If we just looked at isolated panels of Nightwing vs fodder and compared it to Batman vs fodder, ignoring every connection the characters had and all history we know about both characters, it would be difficult to say that Batman is the more skilled of the two based on that alone. We need context to come to these conclusions. Looking at isolated feats every comic character is skilled but that doesn't give us the info to place them accurately.
i think it's comical and borderline absurd that in one breath, you can say, "Just because we don't see Superman use martial arts all the time, it doesn't mean he can't" and in the very next breath say, "Blade is garbage because we haven't seen him use martial arts without his sword"...
How is inference relevant in one case, but not the other?
Originally posted by marwash22
i think it's comical and borderline absurd that in one breath, you can say, "Just because we don't see Superman use martial arts all the time, it doesn't mean he can't" and in the very next breath say, "Blade is garbage because we haven't seen him use martial arts without his sword"...How is inference relevant in one case, but not the other?
Um... I never said that. Batdude and I are two different people... 😑
The question of whether Superman has enough martial skill feats to rise out of the 4th tier, in and of itself shouldn't have a direct bearing on whether or not Blade has insufficient unarmed martial skill feats to be placed amongst the second tiers.
They're two among many, people should probably be looking at the collective and determining their positions within them.
Additionally, Blade being more skilled than Superman doesn't preclude them being in the same tier.
Originally posted by dmillsLol. Oops. I'll get rid of that in the next vote update.
@ X,You've got a pretty quick trigger there buddy! I never nominated Nova to 4th tier. I was merely making some comments.
Originally posted by marwash22
@ sranki know it wasn't you, but the query still stands. How is that justifiable?
I guess I would just say there are inherent differences between a nomination into second tier and a nomination into third tier. Second tier fighter are potentially contenders for first tier, being moved there holds more weight than being moved into third. If a character is in second tier, it better be justified.
Originally posted by srankmissingninhttp://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12745600&highlight=martial+artist+userid%3A70264#post12745600
What page is the actually c urrent list on?
Originally posted by Q99
Maybe we need a tier 5, for those who really aren't good fighters... since even tier 4 represents significant skill judging by it's current lineup.Well if it applies to tier 4s, then it's not really proof of him being a tier three, is it?
that wasn't my point, nor was i claiming that his entry in to the third tier was conditional on battlefield tactics.
Originally posted by dmills
I just can't understand how anyone could look at who's who in the 3rd and 4th tier, and say that Superman should be 3rd tier. Also I don't recall srank officially voting to bump supes to 3 tier.
because he deserves it, maybe?
Originally posted by marwash22
@ sranki know it wasn't you, but the query still stands. How is that justifiable?
is it the same people saying both things?
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What are his feats? I know about him pressure-pointing Bats and showing his skills against some Kryptonians, but what else?
I'll paste some examples from another board (not mine, so credit isnt mine):
A. Combat Skill
A depowered and amnesiac Superman pulls off some moves that wouldn’t be too shabby for Captain America to down some parademons. Adventures Of #426
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/adventuresof426a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/adventuresof426b.jpg
Wonder if he has ever tried his hand at darts? Action Comics #657
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/ActionComics657a.jpg
Another decent showing for Superman’s throwing accuracy. Superman v2 #112
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/aim/superman112d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/aim/superman112e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/aim/superman112f.jpg
Shows decent combat skill whilst fighting Mongul Jnr, combining all of his offensive powers into one potent combo. Superman v2 #152
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/superman152b.jpg
Shows off some of his martial arts training. Man Of Steel #96
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/ManOfSteel096.jpg
There’s no specific skill showing here, but I’ve included it to highlight the fact that Superman does actually have nearly a thousand years’ worth of fighting experience. Action Comics #761
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/ActionComics761a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/ActionComics761b.jpg
Uses some martial arts technique to target Mongul’s damaged ribs. Superman v2 #153
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/superman153a.jpg
Taps a pressure point to instantly KO Tempest. Superman v2 #163
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/superman163a.jpg
Shows off some nice hand-to-hand skill against Starfire. Superman/Batman #4
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/supermanbatman04a.jpg
Demonstrates how his experience and skill with his powers can give him the edge against a similarly powered but inexperienced foe, Preus. Action Comics #824
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/ActionComics824c.jpg
Shows off some of the combat skills taught to him by Batman and Wonder Woman to gain the upper hand vs Zod. Superman v2 #215
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/superman215a.jpg
Induces temporary paralysis with a pressure point strike. Superman/Batman #23
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/supermanbatman23a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/supermanbatman23b.jpg
A powerless Superman gets a solid month hard training from the Batman in how to fight and operate as a street-level hero. Superman/Batman Annual #2
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/supermanbatmanannual02c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/supermanbatmanannual02d.jpg
Swarmed by powerless humans, Superman first vibrates the air around him to push them off, then catches all of them with a cushion of air. Superman/Shazam: First Thunder #3
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/firstthunder03a.jpg
Not necessarily combat skill, but one heckuva showing of his aiming abilities. Superman picks out a bullseye on the moon (or would have done if someone hadn’t gotten in the way!) with a home run he hit back on Earth (see the Striking feats section for more). Superman #673
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/aim/superman673f.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/aim/superman673g.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/aim/superman673h.jpg
Superman uses his experience and skill to briefly gain the upper hand against Paragon, who has all of Superman's powers at higher levels. Superman #674
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/superman674a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/superman674b.jpg
Superman was taught hand-to-hand combat by Earth’s greatest proponent, and he’s a great study! World Of New Krypton #3
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/WorldOfNewKrypton03a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Skill/combat/WorldOfNewKrypton03b.jpg
