Originally posted by Deadline
Why are you ignoring the other example? BP was evading Wolverine and he wasn't even taking the fight as serioulsy as wolverine. Taking that into consideration it probably means BP is faster.
He avoided two attacks and got pinned on the third. Again, the notion that Black Panther isn't quite as fast or quite as skilled doesn't mean T'Challa isn't going to be able to avoid attacks or land attacks of his own. It means that in the long run he wouldn't land as many as his opponent did. Joe Frazier dodged and evaded punches from Ali, heck he dodged and evaded more then he was hit, especially in the first round - but he wasn't as fast or as skilled as Ali.
You seem to be under the impression that Black Panther not being as fast or as skilled means that he isn't even in the same ball park or something. A 9 might not be a 10, but it's close and it sure as hell isn't a 1.
Originally posted by Deadline
Thats kinda true but it doesn't support you're argument anyway.
I know. It wasn't about my argument, it was about yours.
Originally posted by Deadline
I said.....he had been in a demonic dimension and that had affected his abilties as well. Stop selecting the parts of the post you like.
You said it, I just don't remember Daredevil saying it.
I think you are retroactively attributing the metal/physical state of Daredevil at the end of that story arc with Daredevil at the beginning of the arc. It was the accumulative effects of Daredevil's trip to Mephistos' realm, along with his beating in Streets of Poison, and Captain America's speech about America in Daredevil 283 that led to Matt's emotional / physical break down in Daredevil 284, and not any single event. During his fight with Cap, Matt was still fine more or less.
Originally posted by Deadline
BP lost against Iron Fist?
😕
You were wondering why a mind controlled Cap beating Daredevil is different from Panther "beating" a mind controlled Ironfist, and I said that beating a mind controlled character is different than losing to a mind controlled character. The very qualities that make beating a mind controlled character suspect are what in turn make losing to one telling. If beating a mind controlled character is of little relevance because mind controlled characters don't operate at peak performance levels, then on that same token losing to a mind controlled character means they lost to an inferior version of said character. So beating a mind controlled character doesn't mean much, but losing to one does.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His still an A-list Martial Artist. Arguing that he isn't because he doesn't say beat Daredevil straight up isn't real fair to him in my opinion.
I've told you why I think Panther isn't A-list, so now tell me why you think he is.
And keep in mind that sparing on even footing with Captain America doesn't mean Black Panther is equally skilled. Storm spars with Wolverine, Falcon spars with Cap. Sparing isn't an accurate indication of an actual fight. Swordsman beat Black Panther in spar. Swordsman for First Tier?
Originally posted by srankmissingnini notice you hate black panther, blade, and luke cage by you always posting how they arent any good or some other bull
I've told you why I think Panther isn't A-list, so now tell me why you think he is.And keep in mind that sparing on even footing with Captain America doesn't mean Black Panther is equally skilled. Storm spars with Wolverine, Falcon spars with Cap. Sparing isn't an accurate indication of an actual fight. Swordsman beat Black Panther in spar. Swordsman for First Tier?
Originally posted by dev10n
i notice you hate black panther, blade, and luke cage by you always posting how they arent any good or some other bull
hmmmm i wonder why blade, luke cage, and black panther what so they have in common hmmmmmmmm 😖hifty:
🙄
Aside from throwing the bucket of cold water known as fact, logic and critical thinking on the massive swinging boners Trackz and snoop dog have for Blade and their insane deluded fanfic theories, what is this perceived "hate" are you talking about? I'll I've said is that Black Panther being unable to beat First Tier fighters even though he is stronger and faster than most streets has the logical implication that he isn't as skilled... and I don't think I've ever said anything about Luke Cage other than he would lose to Wolverine... which... you know... he would.
Originally posted by srankmissingninhating on comic book heroes 😆
🙄Aside from throwing the bucket of cold water known as fact, logic and critical thinking on the massive swinging boners Trackz and snoop dog have for Blade and their insane deluded fanfic theories, what is this perceived "hate" are you talking about? I'll I've said is that Black Panther being unable to beat First Tier fighters even though he is stronger and faster than most streets has the logical implication that he isn't as skilled... and I don't think I've ever said anything about Luke Cage other than he would lose to Wolverine... which... you know... he would.
Originally posted by Bentley
I still think there are big double standards in accepting that Daredevil having superhuman abilities has a hard time against Punisher and nobody says his stats bump him up like they do with BP.
Enhanced strength, speed, senses,durability and a suit that protects from damage is a massive difference from enhanced senses that compensate for the complete absence of another.
The two cases aren't really comparable IMO.
Originally posted by Bentley
I still think there are big double standards in accepting that Daredevil having superhuman abilities has a hard time against Punisher and nobody says his stats bump him up like they do with BP.
Daredevil has enhanced senses that make up for his lack of sight, Black Panther has enhanced physically attributes across the board, an armored suit AND enhanced senses. There is a difference between the two.
At the end of the day, even though Frank gives Daredevil trouble (why that is a slight against him is beyond me... Punisher gives everyone a fight and Frank is close enough to peak human himself), Matt still wins. Black Panther stalemates. He stale mates people he is physically superior to. The difference between winning a fight and stalemating someone.
I'm also almost positive that Black Panther told Mantis that he was unfamiliar with eastern martial arts and philosophies because he didn't have time to learn them, and he wanted her to teach him - which never happened.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He avoided two attacks and got pinned on the third. Again, the notion that Black Panther isn't quite as fast or quite as skilled doesn't mean T'Challa isn't going to be able to avoid attacks or land attacks of his own. It means that in the long run he wouldn't land as many as his opponent did. Joe Frazier dodged and evaded punches from Ali, heck he dodged and evaded more then he was hit, especially in the first round - but he wasn't as fast or as skilled as Ali.
Im not going to argue that BP is more skilled than Wolverine. You think Wolverine is more skilled than anyone. All im arguing is that maybe one aspect of skill in which BP is superior to Wolverine. As I've told you before he wasn't taking the fight as seriously as Wolverine was.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You seem to be under the impression that Black Panther not being as fast or as skilled means that he isn't even in the same ball park or something. A 9 might not be a 10, but it's close and it sure as hell isn't a 1.
What the hell are you talking about im arguing that BP is more agile than Wolverine.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You said it, I just don't remember Daredevil saying it.I think you are retroactively attributing the metal/physical state of Daredevil at the end of that story arc with Daredevil at the beginning of the arc. It was the accumulative effects of Daredevil's trip to Mephistos' realm, along with his beating in Streets of Poison, and Captain America's speech about America in Daredevil 283 that led to Matt's emotional / physical break down in Daredevil 284, and not any single event. During his fight with Cap, Matt was still fine more or less.
No he was not DD talks about physical abuse that he took right after the metaphysical abuse he took from the demonic dimesnion. Then there is link after that refering to DD 280-282. Obvoulsy the reason why he borughtb this up was to explain to the readers why he ggot his arse kicked by Cap. He wasn't a 100%
This happened after the hell arc. He got beaten up by a random thug and this happened.
http://img42.imageshack.us/f/poolve.jpg/
He also couldnt read Caps moves or Crossbones.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
😕You were wondering why a mind controlled Cap beating Daredevil is different from Panther "beating" a mind controlled Ironfist, and I said that beating a mind controlled character is different than losing to a mind controlled character. The very qualities that make beating a mind controlled character suspect are what in turn make losing to one telling. If beating a mind controlled character is of little relevance because mind controlled characters don't operate at peak performance levels, then on that same token losing to a mind controlled character means they lost to an inferior version of said character. So beating a mind controlled character doesn't mean much, but losing to one does.
Mate you referenced a fight were Captain America was fighting a beserk Daredevil im kinda sure in that instance DD was mindcontrolled.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Daredevil has enhanced senses that make up for his lack of sight, Black Panther has enhanced physically attributes across the board, an armored suit AND enhanced senses. There is a difference between the two.
Yeah but you think Wolverine top tier right. hes got a HF enhanced stats and an adamantuim skeleton... Now what?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm also almost positive that Black Panther told Mantis that he was unfamiliar with eastern martial arts and philosophies because he didn't have time to learn them, and he wanted her to teach him - which never happened.
Knowing you you probably took it out of context. BP knows skrull pressure points and has used them.....now what?
Heres where he says it.
Originally posted by Martian_mind
Enhanced strength, speed, senses,durability and a suit that protects from damage is a massive difference from enhanced senses that compensate for the complete absence of another.The two cases aren't really comparable IMO.
I picked Daredevil for the hell of it, there is Taskmaster, there is Wolverine, many examples of people whose powers people will gladly neglect when it comes to martial arts but "come on, Panther has Cap like status, that's why he wins!" 😬
Originally posted by dmills
I couldn't care less about BP physical stats, as the top tier seems to allow for a certain amount of cheating. My primary objection was the gear. I've never seen him do anything without it.
He didnt always have vibranuim body suit. He didnt have one when he first fought Wolverine. He didnt have one when he was injured and evaded Captain America. The the body suit did not enable him to use pressure points on a super skrull.
