Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i give more credibility to the touring monks then david blane.. i have also seen them in MA tournament demonstrations as i shook their hands as i prepared my own demos.. David blane is an illusionist not an actual martial artist..
I'm still waiting for the Shaolin monk who can KO Cro Cop
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No you don't have a logical basis. You've extended one real life technique far beyond your own familiarity with it. That's not logic.Here's the line of thinking you've demonstrated:
I can take a punch really well.
This guy can take a punch better than me.
Thus Vikings were invulnerable to swords.Socrates and Aristotle are sobbing in their graves right now.
Yes I do. The basis is that if I can have a degree of success in a small time period somebody whose trained there whole life can be much better.
Its not about me talking nonsense its about you looking for an argument. Hell even before I made this argument you were bitching about this:
Originally posted by Wild Shadowi could use my life MA experience about the goal of sword fighting using my black belt weapons training in sword use.. how the warrior looks for a single opportunity and its not the goal to block and parry like in the movies although we are trained to it is not the focus of the sword fighter.. i could tell you how a sword fight usually ended within a few seconds or few minutes from the engagement.. strictly speaking of the MA not viking method of sword fighting
Originally posted by DeadlineDo you have documented proof that Vikings didn't fight like this?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I just need to point out that that is a ridiculous statement. People very rarely look around an detail what they see not happening, you should be looking for proof that they did fight that way.Carry on.
Was it a ridiculous statement...nuh uh.
Originally posted by Deadline
I can understand your skepticism but you dont'actually know me. Thats not a reason to believe but its not a reason to unsult somebody either. Its up to you you can take that option if you like
oooooh, patronize me some more, then spank me! I love it when you talk down to me 🙂
Originally posted by Deadline
Im not even sure how it works myself. All I know is that when I foucsed on certain areas I could make my body tougher. Its a combination of physical exercise and meditation. One example were my stomache muscles by focusing on the stomache I was able to make it alot tougher than my friends, they were doing the same exercises I was doing and were not able to do it.
to you, however, that is unexplainable without chi? What if I told you that you had in fact just described the basics of human biology, excersize and attention?
i believe you deadline but to me it isnt nothing mystical.. it is a combination of body hardening exercises and subconscious control of muscles working in unison to achieve said goal.. i dont see it happening in a fight through if some one launched at you with a spear in mid battle.
although due to your muscle density i would believe the spear may not penetrate as deep as an average person with no body hardening exercises but dont get me wrong the spear is going in..
by the way i call my fist jack hammers.. i have blinded two ppl.. broken a jaw and knocked ppl the f@#$ out with one punch due to training and body hardening.. even broken some cement slabs although one of them wasnt a good idea b/c my friends dared me to do it on a job site while working i did it after 5 hits bloody hand and fractures it swelled up nasty since the cement slab was industrial not your average ones used in MA demo..
my legs are also tree killers.. i have some increased calcium deposits in them.. i can actually feel some lumps in my shins from them..
Originally posted by Deadline
Yes I do. The basis is that if I can have a degree of success in a small time period somebody whose trained there whole life can be much better.
Seriously look at your own thinking. Stopping a punch versus stopping a sword. Unless you have direct familiarity with someone being far far beyond your skill and stopping sharp objects with chi you don't have a logical basis for you claim. At all.
At best you have a tenuous connection to something you have no evidence has ever happened.
Originally posted by Deadline
Was it a ridiculous statement...nuh uh.
Yes it was. You asked him to prove a negative . . .
Originally posted by inimalist
oooooh, patronize me some more, then spank me! I love it when you talk down to me 🙂
Im not trying to do anything. Im having a conversation.
Originally posted by inimalist
to you, however, that is unexplainable without chi? What if I told you that you had in fact just described the basics of human biology, excersize and attention?
The thing I don't actually think that chi has to be some quasi-mystical force but the meditation I was doing did make a difference.
Originally posted by inimalist
YouTube videoI'm still waiting for the Shaolin monk who can KO Cro Cop
I don't know arent there actual demonstrationf os shoalin monks resisting sharp objects? Obvoulsy that clip is going to be embarrasing.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Seriously look at your own thinking. Stopping a punch versus stopping a sword. Unless you have direct familiarity with someone being far far beyond your skill and stopping sharp objects with chi you don't have a logical basis for you claim. At all.At best you have a tenuous connection to something you have no evidence has ever happened.
No it isn't its inference. The longer you train at something the better you get. I understand that it may not be true but yes there is a logical basis that it maybe.
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosYes it was. You asked him to prove a negative . . .
No it wasn't and I explained my stance in my next post. My point was he was making assumptions.
Originally posted by Deadline
No it isn't its inference. The longer you train at something the better you get. I understand that it may not be true but yes there is a logical basis that it maybe.
Then, as I explained previously, we have to accept that samurai could jump thirty or forty feet into the air.
Originally posted by Deadline
The thing I don't actually think that chi has to be some quasi-mystical force but the meditation I was doing did make a difference.
ok
but then why is it even necessary in the equation? If "chi" simply means "the results of focused training and meditation", isn't "chi" redundant?
Originally posted by Deadline
I don't know arent there actual demonstrationf os shoalin monks resisting sharp objects? Obvoulsy that clip is going to be embarrasing.
not to the best of my knowledge
the only thing I have heard of is some monks capable of raising their internal body temperature high enough to dry cloths or something of the like, but even then, I remain highly skeptical, as it was a single study and no real logical explanation (especially when you consider that humans sweat as their internal temp goes up).
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then, as I explained previously, we have to accept that samurai could jump thirty or forty feet into the air.
Great. If you had somebody who was able to jump 10 feet after doing some samurai training for 1 year, I would belive it might be possible for somebody who was much better trained.
Also im not saying its a forgone conclusion im saying it maybe be possible
Originally posted by inimalistI'm still waiting for the Shaolin monk who can KO Cro Cop
i've seen the video the idiot though he could hypnotize his students with chi and put a challenge with random ppl and got his @$$ beat..
one idiot old man does not equal a monk who does two finger push upside down and iron shirt demos. do i think the spears are nano point sharp? no.. do i think it is high quality surgical steel? no.. but non the less it is impressive... have you ever gone to a MA tournament and seen demonstrations do you stand up and call them liars or fake?
if you can argue against it then do so if not then stop patronizing ppl and posting an akido guy to some how discredit a shaolin monk practitioner how about you use a kung fu guy who fails the iron shirt demonstration..
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anyways the fact that one person cant do something doesnt mean that everyone else cant either and vice versa..
what is fake?
I didn't say people can't do "the iron shirt" technique. I'm saying what they do has nothing to do with chi, and, as you even agreed, has nothing to do with stopping a sword attack.
Actually, come to think of it, not having a dull spear impale you under extremely controlled conditions is impressive, but not really.
My point would be that there are as many charlatans who call themselves monks as those who don't.
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
anyways the fact that one person cant do something doesnt mean that everyone else cant either..
so you do actually believe there are monks out there who can beat people up with chi and stop swords?
Originally posted by Deadline
Great. If you had somebody who was able to jump 10 feet after doing some samurai training for 1 year, I would belive it might be possible for somebody who was much better trained.
No we're using your logic remember:
I can jump pretty high.
This guy can jumper higher than me after some training.
Thus samurai can jump forty feet into the air.
Seriously I can apply this to any ridiculous claim you want me to.
I can w.
After training x can do w better than me.
Thus y can do z.
Where w is a confirmed skill, x and y are people, z is a mythic ability that is sounds sort of like its related to w but I have no evidence of ever happening or being possible at all.
Originally posted by Deadline
Also im not saying its a forgone conclusion im saying it maybe be possible
A lot of things are "maybe possible" that doesn't mean they're worth bringing up in a serious debate. It's "maybe possible" that the Celt developed general relativity in 1200AD but in a serious debate about physics I'm not going to demand they be given credit for that accomplishment simply because it wasn't strictly impossible for them.
Where did this idea that Vikings trained their warriors to focus chi so that they become invulnerable come from anyway?
Originally posted by inimalist
okbut then why is it even necessary in the equation? If "chi" simply means "the results of focused training and meditation", isn't "chi" redundant?
The problem is when you focus on a certain area your body temperature rises. So I can see why its described as an energy. You maybe be right but at the same time I stopped doing that particular training so I can't tell you more, also I don't think anybody has done enough scientifc testing to make a conclusive analysis.
Originally posted by inimalist
not to the best of my knowledgethe only thing I have heard of is some monks capable of raising their internal body temperature high enough to dry cloths or something of the like, but even then, I remain highly skeptical, as it was a single study and no real logical explanation (especially when you consider that humans sweat as their internal temp goes up).
I can raise my body temperature but I can't do that. People may not be able to fly but I do think you can do extradinary things with meditation. I think you also have to bare in mind I don't think that scientific community is always open minded about this and maybe looking to debunk it. Im currentlty doing reasearch into parasychology and to be quite honest with you there does seem to be alot of bias.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No we're using your logic remember:I can jump pretty high.
This guy can jumper higher than me after some training.
Thus samurai can jump forty feet into the air.Seriously I can apply this to any ridiculous claim you want me to.
I can w.
After training x can do w better than me.
Thus y can do z.Where w is a confirmed skill, x and y are people, z is a mythic ability that is sounds sort of like its related to w but I have no evidence of ever happening or being possible at all.
A lot of things are "maybe possible" that doesn't mean they're worth bringing up in a serious debate. It's "maybe possible" that the Celt developed general relativity in 1200AD but in a serious debate about physics I'm not going to demand they be given credit for that accomplishment that wasn't strictly impossible for them.
Where did this idea that Vikings trained their warriors to focus chi so that they become invulnerable come from anyway?
Oh go away. 😬