Originally posted by the ninjak
Does the Phoenix Force have the potential to perceive/journey/manipulate other dimensions/realities as well? Or is it just limited to one universe at a time?In other words is it a multidimensional entity?
The Force is a multiversal nexus of psionic power according to the latest handbook entry.
Jean casually amputated the future timeline of Here Comes Tomorrow from the multiverse, before materializing 616 in her palm atom by atom all in New X-men 154 so the White Crown Phoenix definitely has power over realities beyond 616 and if Jean just one of the avatars empowered by the Force in the multiverse can do that, then what does that say for the full Phoenix Force?
The abstracts, universe bound cosmic wars and manipulations are as insignificant as a sandbox of ants. 😉
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Force is a multiversal nexus of psionic power according to the latest handbook entry.Jean casually amputated the future timeline of Here Comes Tomorrow from the multiverse, before materializing 616 in her palm atom by atom all in New X-men 154 so the White Crown Phoenix definitely has power over realities beyond 616 and if Jean just one of the avatars empowered by the Force in the multiverse can do that, then what does that say for the full Phoenix Force?
The abstracts, universe bound cosmic wars and manipulations are as insignificant as a sandbox of ants. 😉
It must suck then that she wasn't able to do what you claim by herself huh? If she was able to do so she would've.. problem is she needed help and wasn't able to do so alone.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The "mutiversal" feat you're referring to. The atom by atom timeline feat.. did the phoenix do so alone?
The feats ive referred to she did by herself yes.
I believe youre trying to be clever and youre referring to the re-energising of the M'kraan crystal feat and Mr Masters attempts to demote it by saying she was aided by the Xmen to a significant degree. Thats not what we're talking about here so unless you have any points to raise about the actual feats the rest of us are talking about, then id say our business here is pretty much concluded 🙂
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The "mutiversal" feat you're referring to. The atom by atom timeline feat.. did the phoenix do so alone?
That was a multiversal feat? When an image of a universe twirled in her hand and she was told that Henry's (Beast) was broken heart Scott became succumbs to loneliness and lost of hope? What she did was psychically changed Scott's decision, pushing him to Emma. This stopped the future in Here Comes Tomorrow, fixing everything. This isn't above any of the abstracts to do.
Originally posted by zopzop
It's more than just a universal resurrection force, it's also the sum total of all psionic energy past/present/future in the MULTIVERSE. It represents all life yet unborn. It's so far above abstracts like Infinity (who only represents physical space) it's not even funny.
Lol. Did you actually read books regarding Phoenix and the abstracts or are you getting this from scans? Who do you think Eternity is? He's not just time. He's been referred to as the universe; the multiverse, everything that was, is, or ever will be; and the representation of life itself. When Thanos gained the IG, he fought and usurp Eternity's position, him being the highest in the hierarchy, with the exception of LT. Infinity is just the otherside of the same coin. The Phoenix Force is mere abstract, that no one took notice throughout all the Infinity series. Even in Marvel The End, Thanos went after Eternity, Infinity, and LT. Where's the Phoenix again if you think it's so powerful? Who's ever admitted that the Phoenix is the source of the abstracts birth and power? If anything, everyone bows before Eternity, Infinity, and the Living Tribunal.
After seeing the exact scans from Excalibur #25 from GS, I'm going to go ahead and disagree. The PF would not have been destroyed. Rachel on the other hand is a different story.
Lol. So what does Death mean when it says that Galactus will end the eternal pattern of life and rebirth?
And like I keep repeating like a broken record, where is the "universal destruction using nothing but your own power" feat from anyone, anywhere aside from the PF?
Where is anything from the Phoenix Force that shows she's destroyed a universe? You care to show that?
@GalacticStormDude if those Adam Warlock and FF scans are legit, this discussion is over. WOW!
😆 Only on this board would you get this nonsense. Because on Herochat and Comicbookresources, most of their posters have actually read these books.
The Infinity Being destroyed itself and brought about everything into existence including the Infinity Gems. The Phoenix Force remember itself being born and was emotionless till it touch Jean. Along with the Phoenix Force, the other abstracts like Eternity and Infinity came into being. That's the cycle that starts everything. The Force comes in as a ressurrection after a universe dies, reigniting a new big bang and bring a new universe to existence.
That's the Infinity Being.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/nemesise.htm
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
That was a multiversal feat? When an image of a universe twirled in her hand and she was told that Henry's (Beast) was broken heart Scott became succumbs to loneliness and lost of hope? What she did was psychically changed Scott's decision, pushing him to Emma. This stopped the future in Here Comes Tomorrow, fixing everything. This isn't above any of the abstracts to do.
Oh please WWK. I never said that was a multiversal feat. I was asked if the Phoenix had the power to affect other realities other than 616 and i said yes and referred to the amputation of the HCT timeline from the multiverse.
Kurupt Thanosi was the one not following the chain of discussion.
As for your description of what happened in those scans you missed out the one immediately prior where Jean amputates HCT from the multiverse as ive shown in this thread already:
She then begins to materialize in her palm (via telekinetic control of all its atoms according to the Phoenix Consciousness) what we are later told is a universe:
Before you predictably start trying to harp on about how she only did it in the crystal and could only do it in the crystal a lame tactic to try and impede a top tier fate let me stop you right there 🙂
Throughout the New X-men series the potential of Jeans tk power is hinted at.
Unparalleled telekinetic sensitivity is known as the manifestation of the Phoenix whereby her tk expands beyond all boundaries, it becomes another sense and she can feel through it:
She explains in further detail later in the series:
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Logan speculates that Jean could create her own universe, but Jean said thats not the Phoenixes role.
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She has total telekinetic control of matter and energy able to convert a rocky asteroid into a spacecraft and power it with the suns energies:
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In the HCT timeline Jean is able to atomize a species but slow down the "atomic deconstruction of one victim and keep his consciousness intact so she can study the process:
Sublime describes a Phoenix as the "ultimate mutation" and describes its power as "telekinetic godhood"
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So throughout the series there is precedence for an unparalleled level of telekinesis from Jean.
We see the scope of it in the closing pages of New X-men when after subtracting Sublime from reality and BEFORE entering the crystal, she amputates the timeline from the multiverse. A feat that is actually probably greater than the infamous universe in the palm of the hand feat because she isnt just dealing with a single universe at a specific point of time, but a section of timeline which she casually and quite indifferently amputates as shown above.
So that in itself disproves any desperate theories that Jean needs to be in the crystal to manipulate such levels of matter and display such high level abilities. She amputated the timeline just before entering the crystal thereby providing precedence for her next feat....the materialization of reality into the palm of her hand. 🙂
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
[B]Lol. Did you actually read books regarding Phoenix and the abstracts or are you getting this from scans? Who do you think Eternity is? He's not just time. He's been referred to as the universe; the multiverse, everything that was, is, or ever will be; and the representation of life itself. When Thanos gained the IG, he fought and usurp Eternity's position, him being the highest in the hierarchy, with the exception of LT. Infinity is just the otherside of the same coin. The Phoenix Force is mere abstract, that no one took notice throughout all the Infinity series. Even in Marvel The End, Thanos went after Eternity, Infinity, and LT. Where's the Phoenix again if you think it's so powerful? Who's ever admitted that the Phoenix is the source of the abstracts birth and power? If anything, everyone bows before Eternity, Infinity, and the Living Tribunal.
Where was the Goblin Force? Where was Seis-Neg? Where was Shuma-Gorath? Where was the Vishanti? Where were the Infinites? Where was the rest of the Celestial race? What does this prove? That Eon > Vishanti? Two Celestials > The Goblin Force?
Also the difference between Eternity (and all his titles) and the PF, is that we actually SEEN its power in action. In this and alternate universes. All we have to go by in Eternity/Infinity's case is hype.
Lol. So what does Death mean when it says that Galactus will end the eternal pattern of life and rebirth?
Ask the writers? It's right there in black and white that he was only to separate the PF from it's host and return it to the cosmos. Because it's not like it's been hostless before or anything 🙄
Where is anything from the Phoenix Force that shows she's destroyed a universe? You care to show that?
I have in two separate alternate universes. Now show my any other of the abstracts you've mentioned doing the same. GS showed you her man-handling a universe in the palm of her hands.
😆 Only on this board would you get this nonsense. Because on Herochat and Comicbookresources, most of their posters have actually read these books.The Infinity Being destroyed itself and brought about everything into existence including the Infinity Gems. The Phoenix Force remember itself being born and was emotionless till it touch Jean. Along with the Phoenix Force, the other abstracts like Eternity and Infinity came into being. That's the cycle that starts everything. The Force comes in as a ressurrection after a universe dies, reigniting a new big bang and bring a new universe to existence.
That's the Infinity Being.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/nemesise.htm
The most RECENT info has the Gems drawing their power from the Big Bang (confirmed by Adam Warlock on panel and Champion's bio). We have Reed Richards calling the PF just another name for the Big Bang. Put two and two together.
Phoenix recalls how it came into existence.
Aww isn't that cute 😄 When's its birthday? We'll throw it a surprise party.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Lol. Did you actually read books regarding Phoenix and the abstracts or are you getting this from scans? Who do you think Eternity is? He's not just time. He's been referred to as the universe; the multiverse, everything that was, is, or ever will be; and the representation of life itself. When Thanos gained the IG, he fought and usurp Eternity's position, him being the highest in the hierarchy, with the exception of LT. Infinity is just the otherside of the same coin. The Phoenix Force is mere abstract, that no one took notice throughout all the Infinity series. Even in Marvel The End, Thanos went after Eternity, Infinity, and LT. Where's the Phoenix again if you think it's so powerful? Who's ever admitted that the Phoenix is the source of the abstracts birth and power? If anything, everyone bows before Eternity, Infinity, and the Living Tribunal.Lol. So what does Death mean when it says that Galactus will end the eternal pattern of life and rebirth?
Where is anything from the Phoenix Force that shows she's destroyed a universe? You care to show that?
😆 Only on this board would you get this nonsense. Because on Herochat and Comicbookresources, most of their posters have actually read these books.
The Infinity Being destroyed itself and brought about everything into existence including the Infinity Gems. The Phoenix Force remember itself being born and was emotionless till it touch Jean. Along with the Phoenix Force, the other abstracts like Eternity and Infinity came into being. That's the cycle that starts everything. The Force comes in as a ressurrection after a universe dies, reigniting a new big bang and bring a new universe to existence.
That's the Infinity Being.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/nemesise.htm
Youre wrong WWK.
The Phoenix Force isnt an abstract, it doesnt embody a concept, it is the living energies of the Big Bang. Thats the difference between it and the abstracts who dont have real presence in reality without M Bodies. The abstracts merely embody concepts that came into place following the Big Bang which gave them meaning and relevance.
Your scan of the Phoenix Force remembering how it came into being changes nothing. Has no effect on whats been said at all Did you not read the previous comments? Theres no doubt that the Phoenix Force was created, no ones arguing against that. However what the Phoenix Force is is the Big Bang. It was the formless primal energies of creation until it gained sentience as your scan shows 🙂
Reputable characters, a genius and a number of cosmics mark it out as the the life force behind the stars without which there would be a void. What filled the void with life, the stars the planets and so on? 😖hifty:
The Big Bang 😱
