Originally posted by Nephthys
No way is Dooku beating Sidious. 😬
Thanks for giving your elaborated argument regarding this issue. You may have noticed how I, clearly with a certain intention, delivered a specific scenario in which this might happen and explaind how it might work.
I neither see a reason for RotS Sidious doing any more damage with lightning to Dooku than he did to Windu (if Dooku has a lightsaber in hand), and neither do I see the master doing better in a lightsaber duel against his apprentice, than he did against Mace, who - according to all available sources - was on par or below Dooku in terms of lightsaber ability.
So. If you have any reasonable argument for you opinion, let me know.
JT
I can see Dooku besting Sidious in a lightsaber contest, but all out? Hard to imagine.
Dooku's conduct with regards to his Master (beginning at the 1:17 mark), in addition to the character's own musings from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous and the Revenge of the Sith novelization indicate a significant distance between Dooku and Sidious (and, by extension, Yoda) in terms of power.
edit: Not to mention comments by George from the Rolling Stone 2005 interview:
"Which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become, but the son could become that."
But I concede this is probably referring to political might.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Dooku's conduct with regards to his Master (beginning at the 1:17 mark), in addition to the character's own musings from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous and the Revenge of the Sith novelization indicate a significant distance between Dooku and Sidious (and, by extension, Yoda) in terms of power.[b]edit
: Not to mention comments by George from the Rolling Stone 2005 interview:"Which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become, but the son could become that."
But I concede this is probably referring to political might. [/B]
...ok.
All I said was that I can see Dooku besting Sidious with in a lightsaber dueling contest, not all-out.
Your response is confusing my tired brain.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
...ok.All I said was that I can see Dooku besting Sidious with in a lightsaber dueling contest, not all-out.
Your response is confusing my tired brain.
Spoiler:
I was agreeing with you, and giving you the sources you need for when you are inevitably attacked on this position.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Dooku's conduct with regards to his Master (beginning at the 1:17 mark), in addition to the character's own musings from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous and the Revenge of the Sith novelization indicate a significant distance between Dooku and Sidious (and, by extension, Yoda) in terms of power.[b]edit
: Not to mention comments by George from the Rolling Stone 2005 interview:"Which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become, but the son could become that."
But I concede this is probably referring to political might. [/B]
Wow. Did anybody find the proof that Dooku can't beat Sidious in a lightsaber duel somewhere? I must have missed it somehow in all that absolutely pointless text.
Dooku's personal feelings about Yoda and Sidious are precisely this: his personal feelings. Not factual evidence. I could also point the fact, that any A>B>C arguments mentioning Dooku and Yoda implicitly assume that Sidious and Yoda are indeed equals in terms of ligthsaber combat (contradicted directly by the RotS script), which means they are logically fallacious (which they are anyway). So, to sum that up, you presented proof for Sidious overall superiority over Dooku which nobody did question in the first place.
Thank you very much.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Wow. Did anybody find the proof that Dooku can't beat Sidious in a lightsaber duel somewhere? I must have missed it somehow in all that absolutely pointless text.
This isn't about a "lightsaber duel". From what I've gathered around here, the general consensus is that Dooku is either above or equal to Sidious so far as lightsaber prowess is concerned (I am of the opinion that he is above Sidious in that department). However, in an all-out combat scenerio (i.e. actual combat), most would agree that Sidious is too powerful for Dooku to overcome. This would be supported by Dooku's own thoughts concerning Sidious. If Dooku feels that Sidious is too powerful for him, then his chances of overcoming Sidious in battle diminish.
Sidious's greatest lightsaber feats, tbh, are being disarmed by Yoda, and beaten by Mace. As well as killing the three masters, Saesee, Kit Fisto, and Agen Kolar within 3-5 seconds. (of the three, Fisto is probably the most impressive opponent.)
Dooku's greatest lightsaber feats are:
1. being able to beat Mace at an undetermined time in history, maybe when Mace was 5, we don't even know, nope we don't.
2. Fighting twice with Yoda, but losing each time.
3. Beating AOTC Kenobi, and AOTC Skywalker.
aaaannndd.... as far as greatest feats, I would have to go with Sidious being more impressive.
Am i forgetting something for either one?
so FEATS WARS goes to Sidious.
Quotes wars MIGHT go to Dooku. I don't know any quotes about Sidious's ability with a lightsaber that are that good, except for the "moving like a blur" one that is of questionable canonicity.
Dooku's form is applauded as the purest form... and what else? I know there is more.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
This isn't about a "lightsaber duel". From what I've gathered around here, the general consensus is that Dooku is either above or equal to Sidious so far as lightsaber prowess is concerned (I am of the opinion that he is above Sidious in that department). However, in an all-out combat scenerio (i.e. actual combat), most would agree that Sidious is too powerful for Dooku to overcome.
Because "all out scenario" and "actual combat" usually means "force battle" in the realm of Star Wars...? It's actually very hard to "surprise" another force user with a force attack in direct confrontation. And even in the instances in which a far more powerful force user attacks an opponent, this doesn't automatically lead to instant victory (see AotC Dooku using force lightning against Kenobi).
Since Sidious offensive force department, canonically as of RotS, is pretty much limited to telekinesis (an art in which Dooku excels) and force lightning (which can be blocked with a lightsaber, as demonstrated by Obi-Wan and Mace), I find it rather odd to assume, that Sidious is going to win an "all out fight". Especially when suggesting that Dookus lightsaber skill might be above that of his master.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Because "all out scenario" and "actual combat" usually means "force battle" in the realm of Star Wars...? It's actually very hard to "surprise" another force user with a force attack in direct confrontation. And even in the instances in which a far more powerful force user attacks an opponent, this doesn't automatically lead to instant victory (see AotC Dooku using force lightning against Kenobi).Since Sidious offensive force department, canonically as of RotS, is pretty much limited to telekinesis (an art in which Dooku excels) and force lightning (which can be blocked with a lightsaber, as demonstrated by Obi-Wan and Mace), I find it rather odd to assume, that Sidious is going to win an "all out fight". Especially when suggesting that Dookus lightsaber skill might be above that of his master.
huh, this sounds very much like what i said several times when people were talking about nihilus and Sidious. Most likely, it's going to come down to sabers, but all i hear is"wtf, noooo! megadrain!!!!"
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I don't like watching the Clone Wars and seeing Kit Fisto's recently promoted former Padawan with a judgment problem tooling two MagnaGuards. It dropped how awesome Anakin and Obi-Wan were at doing it a few notches.
if we judge by the fluctuating skill of magna-guards, ahsoka tahno is the greatest jedi evah.