Satale Shan and Darth Malgus vs The Sith Emperor

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
no u excellent

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
You have failed to prove that in ways so thorough and complete as to inspire awe from those who make careers in failing at what they love above all else in life.

Lord Vitiate's feats are no joke and unrivalled by any Sith Lord during his entire tenure of existence.

Mark Ragnos ruled for a 100 years? Lord Vitiate over a 1000 in comparison.

Within this span of 1000 years, explain to me that which Sith Lord compares to him?

Darth Nihilus was very powerful. Yet Lord Vitiate surpassed him. Jedi Exile herself realized this. She is the best source in this regard.

Heck, even in the future, only Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious performed some remarkable feats but they are different in nature. No other name even comes close. We have Abeloth who is also very powerful. She has her own unique feats to cling to.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
In what regard was he ever unique other than in conquering the galaxy and destroying Jedi {which your boy failed to do, by the way}?

The fact that this Sith Emperor managed to last as the ruler for over a thousand years is a testament to his personal abilities. The world of Sith is filled with conspiracies and plots to overthrow the rulers. No one succeeded against the Lord Vitiate among the Sith. Only the forces of the Republic.

When Lord Vitiate launched his invasion of the Republic, it was described as the most calculated military assault in Republic History.

Of-course, KOTOR proves to be a time of lots of innovations and inventions and it is time when Jedi and Sith are actively engaged in combat. The Jedi Order is well aware of the mechanisms of the Sith.

Sidious starts out in a completely different setting. He follows the approach of secrecy and Rule of Two (which Revan preached in the first place). He starts from within the Republic and slowly but surely uses his abilities to turn things in his favor. However, he also gets lucky when Anakin saves him from Mace Windu. Otherwise, he would have ended up dead. The Jedi Order by this time had forgotten the lessons from history. The Sith were declared as EXTINCT. That is why it was so easily fooled.

And once his apprentice turns on him, he no longer turns out to be invincible. The redeemed Darth Vader destroys him.

And he fails again while he gains all those incredible powers in DE. So why try to project him as a unique being in Star Wars history?

Like all Sith Lords before him, he also ultimately lost and failed.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers

Spoiler:
If you actually read Dark Empire, you'd know that Sidious was stopped by "the Force and all the Jedi who came before" Luke and Leia. That's an exact quote, by the by.

Hyperbolic.

Kriea stated that Revan was power. It was like staring in to the heart of the Force. Again, hyperbolic.

Myths and legends can be part of the reputation of the great Jedi in Star Wars.

[QUOTE=13615468]Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
I have no need to hide it. The fact remains that Nyriss is unable to verify the story's authenticity.

"Over the next few years his reputation and influence spread to nearby villages, and he amassed legions of both fanatical and terrified followers. He killed thousands during his rise to power. Many died just to feed his insatiable appetite for suffering, tortured for days in public executions so he could savor their agonizing ends."

"This sounds more like a legend than a history," Scourge remarked.

"I cannot guarantee the truth of this story," Nyriss admitted. "Those who witnessed the events no longer live to verify them. But if you had ever met the Emperor in person, you would not be so hesitant to accept the tale as fact."

Here is next:

Spoiler:
"What about Nathema's ruler? The boy's father? You claimed he was a Sith Lord. Surely he didn't sit back doing nothing while a child conquered his people village by village?"

"Tenebrae’s father was named Lord Dramath. He heard rumors, but they came from a remote and insignificant territory. He had long forgotten the simple commoner who had borne him a son, and he considered the plight of a few small villages beneath his notice. Had Dramath acted more swiftly, the Emperor might have been stopped. But it took almost four years before he decided to go see Tenebrae for himself.“Lord Dramath intended to judge the child’s power to determine if he was worthy of serving the Sith Lord, or if he should simply be executed. But Tenebrae had no intention of serving—or of dying. When they met face-to-face, Tenebrae proved the stronger. Only ten years old, he stripped his father of his power and his mind. Lord Dramath spent his last moments weeping in terror, gazing up into the black eyes of his son.

"It took Tenebrae three more years to gain control of the rest of Nathema. Dramath’s firstborn son fled rather than face his formidable half brother, but other powerful Sith sought to seize the empty throne. All fell before the dark prodigy, and with each victory he grew more powerful and more ruthless.

"At thirteen he presented himself to Marka Ragnos, the Lord of all Sith and the ruler of the Sith Council. Impressed by the teenager’s ambition and power, Marka Ragnos granted him the title of Lord Vitiate. His position as ruler of Nathema officially recognized, Lord Vitiate returned to his home to conduct his research into the depths of the dark side’s power."

But she is absolutely correct about what happened to Lord Drammath. Revan also confirmed that Lord Vitiate killed Lord Drammath. The only difference is that Nyriss provided more details. She properly knows the history.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
Proof that he conducted his planet-draining ritual, which was never in doubt, not that he stole his father's Force powers at age 10.

This is what Lord Scourge witnessed on Nathema when he landed on its surface:

The Emperor had consumed everything. Life, sound, color, even the Force—nothing remained. This wasn’t about conquest or domination or destroying an enemy—all concepts Scourge embraced.

The Sith Emperor actually had forbidden his followers from visiting Nathema. It was a crime punishiable by death.

This is the experience of Jedi Exile on Nathema:

On Malachor she'd felt the echoes of unimaginable pain and suffering—but at least she'd felt something. Here on Nathema, there was only a cold emptiness. It was unnatural; abhorrent. On Malachor she had felt the echo of great destruction; here there was only the unbearable void of annihilation.

Want more?

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
It doesn't matter what his intent was.
The fact remains that he needed their assistance to conduct the ritual, because he couldn't do it alone. Nihilus and Sidious are not known to have needed such help.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
You regard being on the wrong end of an ass-kicking as entertainment? Well that explains your social life.

Regards,
Your humble Pimpsmacker

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
None of this confirms that Vitiate did anything but overthrow his father. What methods were used and at what age is not confirmed by Revan.[/color]

My Victim
You will realize.

That you have failed to make a valid argument in favor of Vitiate's supremacy? Way ahead of you.

My Victim
What are you babbling about?

Lord Vitiate's feats are no joke and unrivalled by any Sith Lord during his entire tenure of existence.

Mark Ragnos ruled for a 100 years? Lord Vitiate over a 1000 in comparison.

Within this span of 1000 years, explain to me that which Sith Lord compares to him?

Darth Nihilus was very powerful. Yet Lord Vitiate surpassed him. Jedi Exile herself realized this. She is the best source in this regard.

Heck, even in the future, only Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious performed some remarkable feats but they are different in nature. No other name even comes close. We have Abeloth who is also very powerful. She has her own unique feats to cling to.

Fascinating remarks from the world's foremost authority on "babbling." Your evaluations of these characters are irrelevant; I'm not interested in your baseless opinion, I'm interested in that which you can provide from sources.

My Victim
Again, we are talking about things like command of the Force and skills.

The fact that this Sith Emperor managed to last as the ruler for over a thousand years is a testament to his personal abilities. The world of Sith is filled with conspiracies and plots to overthrow the rulers. No one succeeded against the Lord Vitiate among the Sith. Only the forces of the Republic.

When Lord Vitiate launched his invasion of the Republic, it was described as the most calculated military assault in Republic History.

His span of control reached to this level in the Galaxy:

Of-course, KOTOR proves to be a time of lots of innovations and inventions and it is time when Jedi and Sith are actively engaged in combat.

Sidious starts out in a completely different setting. He follows the approach of secrecy and Rule of Two (which Revan preached in the first place). He starts from within the Republic and slowly but surely uses his abilities to turn things in his favor. However, he also gets lucky when Anakin saves him from Mace Windu. Otherwise, he would have ended up dead.

And once his apprentice turns on him, he no longer turns out to be invincible. The redeemed Darth Vader destroys him.

And he fails again while he gains all those incredible powers in DE. So why try to project him as a unique being in Star Wars history?

Like all Sith Lords before him, he also ultimately lost and failed.

Again, your personal evaluations of these characters are uninteresting to me. More important is the fact that I do not regard Sidious as "unique" in anything other than his accomplishments, which transcend Vitiate's.

My Victim
You are misrepresenting the information.

"Over the next few years his reputation and influence spread to nearby villages, and he amassed legions of both fanatical and terrified followers. He killed thousands during his rise to power. Many died just to feed his insatiable appetite for suffering, tortured for days in public executions so he could savor their agonizing ends."

"This sounds more like a legend than a history," Scourge remarked.

"I cannot guarantee the truth of this story," Nyriss admitted. [B]"Those who witnessed the events no longer live to verify them. But if you had ever met the Emperor in person, you would not be so hesitant to accept the tale as fact."

Here is next:

Spoiler:
"What about Nathema's ruler? The boy's father? You claimed he was a Sith Lord. Surely he didn't sit back doing nothing while a child conquered his people village by village?"

"Tenebrae’s father was named Lord Dramath. He heard rumors, but they came from a remote and insignificant territory. He had long forgotten the simple commoner who had borne him a son, and he considered the plight of a few small villages beneath his notice. Had Dramath acted more swiftly, the Emperor might have been stopped. But it took almost four years before he decided to go see Tenebrae for himself.“Lord Dramath intended to judge the child’s power to determine if he was worthy of serving the Sith Lord, or if he should simply be executed. But Tenebrae had no intention of serving—or of dying. When they met face-to-face, Tenebrae proved the stronger. Only ten years old, he stripped his father of his power and his mind. Lord Dramath spent his last moments weeping in terror, gazing up into the black eyes of his son.

"It took Tenebrae three more years to gain control of the rest of Nathema. Dramath’s firstborn son fled rather than face his formidable half brother, but other powerful Sith sought to seize the empty throne. All fell before the dark prodigy, and with each victory he grew more powerful and more ruthless.

"At thirteen he presented himself to Marka Ragnos, the Lord of all Sith and the ruler of the Sith Council. Impressed by the teenager’s ambition and power, Marka Ragnos granted him the title of Lord Vitiate. His position as ruler of Nathema officially recognized, Lord Vitiate returned to his home to conduct his research into the depths of the dark side’s power."

But she is absolutely correct about what happened to Lord Drammath. Revan also confirmed that Lord Vitiate killed Lord Drammath. The only difference is that Nyriss provided more details. She properly knows the history.[/b]

She says she cannot verify the authenticity of the story. Revan does not confirm the details {which is what we're discussing}, just the broad story. There is no misrepresentation on my end; we cannot take her word as the gospel.

My Victim
The data records stolen from the planet by Jedi Exile confirmed what Lord Nyriss stated. Don't make ridiculous arguments.

This is what Lord Scourge witnessed on Nathema when he landed on its surface:

The Emperor had consumed everything. Life, sound, color, even the Force—nothing remained. This wasn’t about conquest or domination or destroying an enemy—all concepts Scourge embraced.

The Sith Emperor actually had forbidden his followers from visiting Nathema. It was a crime punishiable by death.

This is the experience of Jedi Exile on Nathema:

On Malachor she'd felt the echoes of unimaginable pain and suffering—but at least she'd felt something. Here on Nathema, there was only a cold emptiness. It was unnatural; abhorrent. On Malachor she had felt the echo of great destruction; here there was only the unbearable void of annihilation.

Want more?

What I'd like is proof that he removed his father's powers at age 10. Nothing you have provided confirms this.

My Victim
You cannot be certain. He knew how to perform the ritual. He had plans to devour the Sith Lords to become more powerful. The whole point of performing that ritual was to devour the Sith Lords. Why would he be interested in millions of ordinary people? Use your brain.

😐

I'm waiting for a source that confirms or even remotely implies that he can utilize the ritual unaided and in a combat scenario. Take your time.

My Victim
Continue to dream on. I will expose your misrepresentations without any issues.

We can tell from your posts that unlike your sources, your issues are in abundance. Therapy is your friend.

My Victim
Lord Nyriss provided details. She was close to the Sith Emperor and studied both Sith Lore and History in great depth. She is the best source available yet.

And she flat-out says she can't confirm the story.

/discussion

I want sources, not bullshit.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
That you have failed to make a valid argument in favor of Vitiate's supremacy? Way ahead of you.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
Fascinating remarks from the world's foremost authority on "babbling." Your evaluations of these characters are irrelevant; I'm not interested in your baseless opinion, I'm interested in that which you can provide from sources.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
Again, your personal evaluations of these characters are uninteresting to me. More important is the fact that I do not regard Sidious as "unique" in anything other than his accomplishments, which transcend Vitiate's.

Also, we are discussing the Sith Emperor's powers and destructive feats. We are not discussing the conquest of the Republic. That is irrelevant topic in this thread.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
She says she cannot verify the authenticity of the story. Revan does not confirm the details {which is what we're discussing}, just the broad story. There is no misrepresentation on my end; we cannot take her word as the gospel.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
What I'd like is proof that he removed his father's powers at age 10. Nothing you have provided confirms this.

Otherwise, SU.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
😐

I'm waiting for a source that confirms or even remotely implies that he can utilize the ritual unaided and in a combat scenario. Take your time.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
We can tell from your posts that unlike your sources, your issues are in abundance. Therapy is your friend.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
And she flat-out says she can't confirm the story.

At the age of 13, he meets Marka Ragnos who acknowledges his rule over Nathema.

You cannot disprove any of this. You took one statement of hers and blew it out of the proportion. I doubt that you even have the novel.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
/discussion

I want sources, not bullshit.

I don't need to disprove anything. When a character admits she may very well be wrong with what she is saying, that's all the latitude I need to question it.

Nyriss says that she is unable to verify its authenticity; this is an admission that she does not know if it actually happened this way.

Failure to provide these sources in your next post will be taken as an automatic concession and you'll be placed on ignore for your efforts.

Again, you took one statement of her and blew it out of proportion.

Here is the whole page:

Spoiler:
"At the age of six he began to manifest signs of the Force, marking him as one of the ruling elite. But his parents were simple farmers, and the Force was not strong in them. Suspicious about the boy's power, his father confronted his mother, who admitted to having an affair with the Sith Lord who ruled over them."

"The father flew into a rage, attacking the boy's mother. Tenebrae stopped him, feeding on his father's anger and hate to call upon the dark side. He snapped his father's neck with a mere thought, killing him instantly. His mother died more slowly. Tenebrae made her suffer for months as punishment for betraying the family, torturing her with the Force as he honed his powers."

"Now orphaned by his own hand, he made the others in his village bow down to him. Those who refused, he tortured and killed through the Force."

"Over the next few years his reputation and influence spread to nearby villages, and he amassed legions of both fanatical and terrified followers. He killed thousands during his rise to power. Many died just to feed his insatiable appetite for suffering, tortured for days in public executions so he could savor their agonizing ends."

"This sounds more like a legend than a history," Scourge remarked.

"I cannot guarantee the truth of this story," Nyriss admitted. "Those who witnessed the events no longer live to verify them. But if you had ever met the Emperor in person, you would not be so hesitant to accept the tale as fact."

"What about Nathema's ruler? The boy's father? You claimed he was a Sith Lord. Surely he didn't sit back doing nothing while a child conquered his people village by village?"

Tenebrae's father was named Lord Dramath. He heard rumors, but they came from a remote and insignificant territory. He had long forgotten the simple commoner who had borne him a son, and he considered the plight of a few small villages beneath his notice. Had Dramath acted more swiftly, the Emperor might have been stopped. But it took almost four years before he decided to go see Tenebrae for himself."

"Lord Dramath intended to judge the child’s power to determine if he was worthy of serving the Sith Lord, or if he should simply be executed. But Tenebrae had no intention of serving—or of dying. When they met face-to-face, Tenebrae proved the stronger. Only ten years old, he stripped his father of his power and his mind. Lord Dramath spent his last moments weeping in terror, gazing up into the black eyes of his son."

"It took Tenebrae three more years to gain control of the rest of Nathema. Dramath’s firstborn son fled rather than face his formidable half brother, but other powerful Sith sought to seize the empty throne. All fell before the dark prodigy, and with each victory he grew more powerful and more ruthless."

"At thirteen he presented himself to Marka Ragnos, the Lord of all Sith and the ruler of the Sith Council. Impressed by the teenager’s ambition and power, Marka Ragnos granted him the title of Lord Vitiate. His position as ruler of Nathema officially recognized, Lord Vitiate returned to his home to conduct his research into the depths of the dark side’s power."

I have the book, thanks.
She still says she cannot confirm the facts of the story.

Concession accepted, thanks for the debate. The back of my hand is a bit read from that pimpsmacking, though. 😉

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
I have the book, thanks.
She still says she cannot confirm the facts of the story.

Concession accepted, thanks for the debate. The back of my hand is a bit read from that pimpsmacking, though. 😉

She also very clearly makes this statement:

"But if you had ever met the Emperor in person, you would not be so hesitant to accept the tale as fact."

Lord Nyriss understands Sith Emperor much better then Lord Scourge. She is a member of his Dark Council.

Ask Drew, if you have further questions.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers

DS
That quote has as much validity as the one that stated Palpatine knew everything. That's been proven to be erroneous at best, stupidity at worse.

Explain, or is the truth of your words suddenly self-evident?

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
[b]Explain, or is the truth of your words suddenly self-evident?

DS

Meaning you take some quotes at face value and vehemently debate others, all according to your bias. Please, stop making this so easy.

Explain how the quote was proven to be erroneous.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
Explain how the quote was proven to be erroneous.

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
Explain how the quote was proven to be erroneous.

Do you really need an explanation as to how "Sidious knew everything" doesn't make sense? Here's one, he didn't discover the secrets to immortality as Vitiate did. So if there's one, there's 2. Doesn't appear he knew Luke's special force lightning. Doesn't appear he knew the Emperor's other ritual that made Scourge immortal. You can see where this is going.

I think RevanSpoilers meant the quote where it took all the previous Jedi to contain his spirit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think RevanSpoilers meant the quote where it took all the previous Jedi to contain his spirit.

Why would Gideon Revanspoilers respond with a quote that I didn't argue for or against?

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
If you actually read Dark Empire, you'd know that Sidious was stopped by "the Force and all the Jedi who came before" Luke and Leia. That's an exact quote, by the by.

[QUOTE=13615488]Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
[B]That quote has as much validity as the one that stated Palpatine knew everything. That's been proven to be erroneous at best, stupidity at worse.

That quote has as much validity as the one that stated Palpatine knew everything. That's been proven to be erroneous at best, stupidity at worse.

Yes, the quote in question has been proven erroneous, hence the response. Nobody argued the jedi quote. Arguin the validity of the jedi quote is for a different time.

ty nephlez

DS
Yes, the quote in question has been proven erroneous, hence the response. Nobody argued the jedi quote. Arguin the validity of the jedi quote is for a different time.

I don't think I said Sidious knew everything.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Do you really need an explanation as to how "Sidious knew everything" doesn't make sense? Here's one, he didn't discover the secrets to immortality as Vitiate did. So if there's one, there's 2. Doesn't appear he knew Luke's special force lightning. Doesn't appear he knew the Emperor's other ritual that made Scourge immortal. You can see where this is going.

Here is another one.

Sidious doesn't appear to know Lord Vitiate's special Force lightning Storm either which was purplish in color and was considerably more devastating then the versions we saw in the movies.

If the Sith Emperor was in place of Sidious on the Death Star in ROTJ and would have unleashed his powers, he would have incinerated both Darth Vader and Luke with relative ease.

You've mentioned that quote many times and at my comment regarding it, apparently questioned how it could be erroneous.

DS
You've mentioned that quote many times and at my comment regarding it, apparently questioned how it could be erroneous.

One of us misread or mistyped, because that quote {about Sidious knowing every technique} wasn't brought up or defended by me in this thread. What was brought up was Brand's declaration that the Force and all the Jedi who came before Luke would kept Sidious trapped in limbo.

You
[quote]Me
If you actually read Dark Empire, you'd know that Sidious was stopped by "the Force and all the Jedi who came before" Luke and Leia. That's an exact quote, by the by.

That quote has as much validity as the one that stated Palpatine knew everything. That's been proven to be erroneous at best, stupidity at worse.[/quote]

^ This was your original remark at the bottom of page 3. In it, you compare the validity of the quote I used {about the Force and all the Jedi keeping Sidious in limbo} to the one about Sidious being believed to have mastered every technique.

Hence my question: How is the quote about the Force and Jedi invalid?