Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Either that post of mine was re-worded on your end, or you took my meaning waaaaaaaay out to sea.
Just wanted to expose Neph.
Some members treat Sidious as if he is some kind of Force-God. He is not. And he was nothing
Damn, my response got cut.
Continuing it:
And he was nothing in comparison to Lord Vitiate in the movies and even TFU novels.
Lord Vitiate eliminated his entire Dark Council, which comprised of the strongest Sith Lords in the Galaxy. Just one Dark Council member was capable of handling both Lord Scourge and Jedi Exile simultaneously. It proves that how powerful Lord Vitiate really is. One can only imagine that how devastating are his Force powers. He will manhandle even the most powerful Jedi of PT era.
We need to get used to all the shit that is turning out in the EU lately. It is actually good in the sense that we are getting counter-balance against the top characters of PT and post PT era characters. This will help in keeping fanboyism of later eras under check. The crux of my argument.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
ROTS Sidious shouldn't even be in the same breath as this guy. Only DE Sidious is allowed, if ANY incarnation of Sidious makes sense.
Really? What makes Vitiate so far ahead of ROTS Sidious? His greatest feat of power was performed with a ritual and with a lot of help.
As for DE Sidious, there is no argument that can be made that would put Vitiate on Sidious' level.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Damn, my response got cut.Continuing it:
And he was nothing in comparison to Lord Vitiate in the movies and even TFU novels.
Lord Vitiate eliminated his entire Dark Council, which comprised of the strongest Sith Lords in the Galaxy. Just one Dark Council member was capable of handling both Lord Scourge and Jedi Exile simultaneously. It proves that how powerful Lord Vitiate really is. One can only imagine that how devastating are his Force powers. He will manhandle even the most powerful Jedi of PT era.
We need to get used to all the shit that is turning out in the EU lately. It is actually good in the sense that we are getting counter-balance against the top characters of PT and post PT era characters. This will help in keeping fanboyism of later eras under check. The crux of my argument.
I have no problem with someone arguing for their favorite character or era, but what you're doing is pathetic.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I have no problem with someone arguing for their favorite character or era, but what you're doing is pathetic.
Have we learned nothing?
When you feel the need to call someone in your online community pathetic because of their level or quality of participation, you are inadvertently insulting yourself while simultaneously undermining the motivation of everyone else to respond. If he's pathetic, SIDIOUS 66, even after his diligent and extensive arguments, what does that make you?
I don't agree with that. If he had made the implication that posting on an internet board about star wars, in general, made one pathetic, then you'd have a point. But he didn't. What he stated was that the level of obsession Legend is displaying is pathetic. Ergo, he wouldn't be insulting himself unless he also displayed that level of obsession.
Really? What makes Vitiate so far ahead of ROTS Sidious? His greatest feat of power was performed with a ritual and with a lot of help.As for DE Sidious, there is no argument that can be made that would put Vitiate on Sidious' level.
Lot of help? He mind crushed hundreds of sith lords as soon as they came to his planet. He reigned supreme for 1,400 years. He has no need for a saber because he can wtfpwn you without one. He single handedly destroyed the dark council. There is NO argument for ROTS Sidious to be compared to him on any level. DE Sidious is more of a challenge but you'll have to provide a good argument as to how he would oppose Vitiate. I suggest you read the book first before confirming your continuing OT bias.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I don't agree with that. If he had made the implication that posting on an internet board about star wars, in general, made one pathetic, then you'd have a point. But he didn't. What he stated was that the level of obsession Legend is displaying is pathetic. Ergo, he wouldn't be insulting himself unless he also displayed that level of obsession.
Zampanó
But, you see, Legend is doing nothing more than excelling at making an argument. In fact, he's doing so much more effectively than I've seen from almost anyone else. (Stubbornness is all you need to win the internet.) In my eyes, SIDIOUS 66 is calling Legend's efforts pathetic, while SIDIOUS 66's own efforts are of consistently lesser quality, thereby disparaging himself.
Would you care to point out the excellent parts of his argument for those of us who can't see it?
DS
Lot of help? He mind crushed hundreds of sith lords as soon as they came to his planet.
When confronted with two Jedi and a Sith, he was unable to replicate the feat. Vitiate has not been shown to mentally subjugate the mind of a fully prepared intellect who is strong in the Force. The fact that he apparently didn't exert this level of influence over the Dark Council is testament to this.
DS
He reigned supreme for 1,400 years. He has no need for a saber because he can wtfpwn you without one. He single handedly destroyed the dark council.
The length of his reign is testament to a combination of power and cunning; that he was a figure of tremendous power is not in dispute. A creature who can WTFpwn a person without a lightsaber isn't likely to be knocked on his ass twice by someone with one. And the destruction of the Dark Council, while impressive, has not been elaborated upon.
DS
There is NO argument for ROTS Sidious to be compared to him on any level.
I haven't seen anyone sufficiently debunk the idea that ROTS Sidious is on par with Vitiate.
DS
DE Sidious is more of a challenge but you'll have to provide a good argument as to how he would oppose Vitiate.
Given that most of what we know of Vitiate comes from unconfirmed legends, color me unimpressed relative to what powers he demonstrated in combat.
DS
I suggest you read the book first before confirming your continuing OT bias.
Careful with that word.
Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
When confronted with two Jedi and a Sith, he was unable to replicate the feat. Vitiate has not been shown to mentally subjugate the mind of a fully prepared intellect who is strong in the Force. The fact that he apparently didn't exert this level of influence over the Dark Council is testament to this.
The length of his reign is testament to a combination of power and cunning; that he was a figure of tremendous power is not in dispute. A creature who can WTFpwn a person without a lightsaber isn't likely to be knocked on his ass twice by someone with one. And the destruction of the Dark Council, while impressive, has not been elaborated upon.
I haven't seen anyone sufficiently debunk the idea that ROTS Sidious is on par with Vitiate.
Given that most of what we know of Vitiate comes from unconfirmed legends, color me unimpressed relative to what powers he demonstrated in combat.
DS
1. Doesn't mean he couldn't, it means it might take time, like the ritual did.
2. He didn't need to influence the dark council when he can just kill them all and replace them, which he did.
Vitiate reigned for more than a thousand years, I fail to see how time was a commodity in short supply for him. I also fail to see why he would refuse to subjugate the Dark Council if he could, since he clearly feared them enough to execute all of them at the mere possibility of treachery.
DS
They all went into his chambers, none came out. The Imperial Guard isn't powerful enough to deal with council members. Pretty obvious they got owned by Vitiate.
It is possible that Vitiate, as the authority who determined the time and place of their execution, used a ritual to kill them. There is no evidence that indicates he slayed them with his bare hands and under his own power.
DS
I haven't seen anyone sufficiently argue ROTS Sidious being anywher near Vitiate in terms of power.
Then I guess we're both unimpressed with the other side's arguments.
DS
Owning Revan without a blade is pretty damn impressive.
Defeating Revan is impressive, but the fact that he was put on his ass doesn't bode well for the idea that he's so untouchable in combat as to not need a lightsaber.
DS
Not sure how he killed the dark council but it's possible he drained them.
Exactly, a ritual may have been used. Something unlikely to occur in the midst of combat.
DS
You'll have to fill me in on what chance Sidious has.
Different thread, different forum.
Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
Vitiate reigned for more than a thousand years, I fail to see how time was a commodity in short supply for him. I also fail to see why he would refuse to subjugate the Dark Council if he could, since he clearly feared them enough to execute all of them at the mere possibility of treachery.
It is possible that Vitiate, as the authority who determined the time and place of their execution, used a ritual to kill them. There is no evidence that indicates he slayed them with his bare hands and under his own power.It's possible that he banged them all before killing them too. All we know is it's hinted to be a very short meeting. They came in, nobody left. And if he DID use a ritual, he did it against the most powerful members of the Empire, all 11 of them. What chance does Sidious have?
Defeating Revan is impressive, but the fact that he was put on his ass doesn't bode well for the idea that he's so untouchable in combat as to not need a lightsaber.
Exactly, a ritual may have been used. Something unlikely to occur in the midst of combat.
I'm not following here. He had 11 of the most powerful members in his chambers at one time. If he was able to overcome them with a ritual, then what does one man have?
DS
These questions are merely fluff. The point is, he COULD defeat them all because he DID.
I could say that Sidious defeated ten thousand Jedi and I would technically be correct, though the manner in which that occurred would be irrelevant to this discussion; I could also say that Sidious killed the four Jedi Masters sent to arrest him and I would technically be correct, though the fact that Windu defeated him in single combat would undermine the way that fact is interpreted.
Context is critical.
DS
It's possible that he banged them all before killing them too. All we know is it's hinted to be a very short meeting.
Where is this hinted?
DS
They came in, nobody left. And if he DID use a ritual, he did it against the most powerful members of the Empire, all 11 of them. What chance does Sidious have?
Because there's no indication that this ritual could be conducted in combat.
DS
It required Revan to do something we've never seen in the mythos, force enlightenment both equal parts light and dark, to put the emperor on his ass.
The first time, and then he simply deflected the Emperor's lightning back against him courtesy of the lightsaber.
DS
I'm not following here. He had 11 of the most powerful members in his chambers at one time. If he was able to overcome them with a ritual, then what does one man have?
Unless Sidious is facing this ritual as per the parameters of the thread, I don't think this will be an issue.
Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
I could say that Sidious defeated ten thousand Jedi and I would technically be correct, though the manner in which that occurred would be irrelevant to this discussion; I could also say that Sidious killed the four Jedi Masters sent to arrest him and I would technically be correct, though the fact that Windu defeated him in single combat would undermine the way that fact is interpreted.Context is critical.
Where is this hinted?
Because there's no indication that this ritual could be conducted in combat.
The first time, and then he simply deflected the Emperor's lightning back against him courtesy of the lightsaber.
Unless Sidious is facing this ritual as per the parameters of the thread, I don't think this will be an issue. [/B]If Sidious could survive the mind crush or the force storm or whatever the hell else Vitiate has going for him, then maybe we can talk.
Originally posted by Zampanó
But, you see, Legend is doing nothing more than excelling at making an argument. In fact, he's doing so much more effectively than I've seen from almost anyone else. (Stubbornness is all you need to win the internet.) In my eyes, SIDIOUS 66 is calling Legend's efforts pathetic, while SIDIOUS 66's own efforts are of consistently lesser quality, thereby disparaging himself.
Excelling at making an argument? Have you even been following his arguments? Every time Neph defeats his points, he resorts to petty insults and tries to downplay the characters Neph's defending. And please explain how my efforts are of consistently lesser efforts when all I've done was question the hype surrounding Vitiate (which is common everytime a new character comes up)?
Why don't you stop playing mod already? I never said his arguments for his favorite characters were pathetic. But the way he is handling his opponents' arguments is what is pathetic and it's making him seem like a fanboy, and that's not a word I use often.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
He mind crushed hundreds of sith lords as soon as they came to his planet.
I was under the impression that he tricked them and used their combined power for the rest of the ritual. A ritual that required days to perform.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
He has no need for a saber because he can wtfpwn you without one.
He can wtfpwn who without one? A far lesser force user? Any powerful force user can do that.
I doubt he can just wtfpwn ROTS Sidious without one. In fact, he might even need one, and there is nothing to suggest that he can even rival Sidious in that area.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
He single handedly destroyed the dark council.
What RevenSpoilers said. How did he do this exactly?
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
There is NO argument for ROTS Sidious to be compared to him on any level.
There hasn't been an argument made for Vitiate that would make me believe that he can simply wtfpwn ROTS Sidious either. Sidious advantage with a saber may turn the odds in Sidious' favor.
Revan's fight with Vitiate proves that he [Vitiate] can be touched.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
DE Sidious is more of a challenge but you'll have to provide a good argument as to how he would oppose Vitiate. I suggest you read the book first before confirming your continuing OT bias.
DE Sidious can single handedly destroy an entire fleet of capital war ships. He can turn an entire world into one of the most powerful dark side nexus' in the galaxy, while mentally dominating it's 20 billion inhabitants. He can also body-hop and absorb other force users into his will. All this Sidious can do with his own power, unaided.
Sidious is a pretty well known character on this forum, so it would be your burden to prove a knew comer if you claim that he is above Sidious.
I haven't read the entire novel, but I did read some of the excerpts of Vitiate's and Revan's fight. And that fight proves that Vitiate Does not have the combined power of over 100 dark lords as LeGend is claiming. If that were the case then the fight with him and Revan should have ended the second Vitiate laid eyes on Revan.