ROTS Sidious vs. Lord Vitiate

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Vitiate has shown mind powers on a level unlike anything we have ever seen in the mythos.

That's arguable. Plagueis and Palpatine both went up against the will of the force, and that is a level of will power unlike anything we have ever seen in the mythos.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
His force lightning is arguably stronger as well.

Revan was able to block it.

Originally posted by CityOfHope
The sentences around that one help establish what educated people called 'context'. By examining context, one increases one's chances of understanding his opponent's point.

As an example, your opponent might be trying to insinuate that since a teenage, untrained Palpatine's mind was "impenetrable" to a powerful Sith Lord, it may provide something of a challenge for Vitiate to subjugate an older, stronger, better trained Palpatine.

An idea that your response (Vitiate ruling a planet and killing his father) doesn't address.

Exactly

Dr McBeefington
I started comparing power levels at their teenage years

It's an inadequate comparison. The circumstances of upbringing and the nature of the environment differ radically between these two Sith. Palpatine, born in a time in which the Jedi were supreme, could not draw attention to himself, unlike Vitiate. This is a critical detail to Plagueis's interest in Palpatine and his Force sensitivity, if you read the book.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
[B]That's arguable. Plagueis and Palpatine both went up against the will of the force, and that is a level of will power unlike anything we have ever seen in the mythos.

Revan was able to block it.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Sure, that isn't hyperbole.. I guess Revan was the heart of the force then.

No, it's not hyperbole. It's something they actually did, which caused the imbalance of the force. And to Plagueis' surprise they managed to do so without being killed by the force as a consequence.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Because Revan was prepared for it the 2nd time around. And he's pretty damn l337.

Palpatine wouldn't be prepared for sith lightning from a sith lord or what?

Palpatine wouldn't be prepared for sith lightning from a sith lord or what?

And no, it is hyperbole and not exactly relevant in a combat situation.

Yeah, sorr,y DS, but it's stated Palpatine and Plagueis had to keep the Force itself from killing them in return from unbalancing it

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
It wasn't simple sith lightning but nice try.

It was an extremely powerful version of sith lightning, which was blocked by Revan's lightsaber.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
And no, it is hyperbole and not exactly relevant in a combat situation.

So then I can claim that the legend about Vitiate dominating 100 dark lords is hyperbole? Or him disposing of 10 members on the council? At least we have more evidents on Plagueis and Sidious' feat.

Palpatine's will power is relevant in combat if he is to face Vitiate.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It was an extremely powerful version of sith lightning, which was blocked by Revan's lightsaber.

So then I can claim that the legend about Vitiate dominating 100 dark lords is hyperbole? Or him disposing of 10 members on the council? At least we have more evidents on Plagueis and Sidious' feat.

Palpatine's will power is relevant in combat if he is to face Vitiate.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah, sorr,y DS, but it's stated Palpatine and Plagueis had to keep the Force itself from killing them in return from unbalancing it

No they didn't. In fact, the novel makes it clear that the force did not fight back, at least not in the manner they imagined.

"No counterforce had risen against them" (pg 279).

It's still an icredible feat and shows their massive comand of the dark side but it really isn't apllicable to a fight. And DS it's not hyperbole. Thay litteraly willed "the Force to shift and tip irrevocably to the dark side."

Actually, it makes clear they won.
them.
"In what amounted to a state of rapture they knew that the Force had yielded, as if some deity had been
tipped from its throne. On the fulcrum they had fashioned, the light side had dipped and the dark side had ascended"

Lightsnake beat me to it. But yes it is relevant in a fight with Vitiate. Palpatine has a strong will and would likely resist Vitiate's mind manipulations.

The Force yeilded without a fight? Man, the Force is kind of lame.

Or, y'know, it just couldn't fight back.

Christ, Vitiate unexpectedly dominates the mind of Sith lords, he's awesome.

Palpatine and Plagueis dominate The Force? Make every excuse we can against them.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Actually, it makes clear they won.
them.
"In what amounted to a state of rapture they knew that the Force had yielded, as if some deity had been
tipped from its throne. On the fulcrum they had fashioned, the light side had dipped and the dark side had ascended"

Never said they didn't win. In fact, I posted a passage showing that they managed to tip the scales...

All I said is the Force didn't "fight back" or attempt to kill them like you stated it did.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Force yeilded without a fight? Man, the Force is kind of lame.

Well, it did fight back just not in a way the Sith predicted.

Spoiler:
Anakin.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Force yeilded without a fight? Man, the Force is kind of lame.

Well, no, the force didn't just let them cause a shift in the force. Plagueis and Sidious waged an "etheric war", suggesting that the force did put up a challenging, which is why it took them months of deep meditation to do.

Ares, provide your thoughts on Plagueis in the relevant thread here or elsewhere (TFN, ROK).

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well, no, the force didn't just let them cause a shift in the force. Plagueis and Sidious waged an "etheric war", suggesting that the force did put up a challenging, which is why it took them months of deep meditation to do.

But what about Ares' quote?

What's conrradictory? They waged the etheric war, won it and weren't challenged after

Ares' quote comes from after they've already won?

Yup