Reflex speed.

Originally posted by carver9
No he didn't. He took HIS speed from Amazo. Amazo still had Superman, Diana and the rest of the league speed as stated per Diana when she tried to punch him in the face when he was in the mount.

No, he took "Amazo's superspeed" at a point when Amazo was displaying most of the League's powers, and had already fought Superman moments before. He doesn't state it was just Flash's speed.

At some point after that, he does get his speed back, that's true. It's just a question of whether he gets it back before or after the heat vision.

Good luck arguing that it was Superman and Wonder Woman's speed combined though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, he took "Amazo's superspeed" at a point when Amazo was displaying most of the League's powers, and had already fought Superman moments before. He doesn't state it was just Flash's speed.

At some point after that, he does get his speed back, that's true. It's just a question of whether he gets it back before or after the heat vision.

Good luck arguing that it was Superman and Wonder Woman's speed combined though.

We really need you on here full time basis to babysit Carver. He has hard time listening 😆

I think it was mentioned about his speed when WW tried punching him in the face. Looking for the scan now.

Originally posted by carver9
I think it was mentioned about his speed when WW tried punching him in the face. Looking for the scan now.

He has his speed back by that point. She says he's faster than Clark, "almost as fast as her", but this is well after the heat vision.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Heh, the old arguments again? How many times you've repeated those now?

*Shrugs* Repeatedly ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

We all know how biased you are. "I chose not to count those/dismiss them over flimsy excuses" is simply not a good counterargument and never will be.

Fact is Superman outright stopping professor zoom is vastly better than Diana getting rsgdolled and catching a distracted zoom.

A distracted Zoom looking right at her, and Zoom is faster than Prof Zoom.

Blocking hv had nothing on superman as he is actually done better things while weakened.

Blocking repeatedly-fired heatvision... by Superman or Amazo using superspeed... is nothing on what Superman has done...

You are a parody of yourself, you are.

In sacrifice it had nothing to do with speed

Fighting in hand to hand has nothing to do with reflexes now? Or the bit where she zooms behind him and smashes his ears before he can react?

And, what's the first line of internal dialog she has when he attacks? Oh yes, "He's already moving at speed." As he's rapid-firing heat vision at her while charging.

"Nothing to do with speed," does seems to translate as 'I chose not to count it due to it being inconvenient to my argument.'

You know, like pretty much everything you say on the subject. She's actually beaten Superman and fought him on good terms numerous terms and covering your ears and going 'la la la' about what happens when directly compared in universe is still the best you can come up with.

LOL@ Q99 using the 'Sacrifice' fight as supposed proof of WW's superior reflexes as if Superman hallucinating didn't affect his performance. It's pretty sad when WW supporters are so desperate to find some so-called "proof" of her superior reflexes that they have to use a fight in which Clark was at a huge disadvantage and act like it's a usual showing for him. So pathetic that that's the best they can do. LOL. Of course, they ignore stuff like their fight in 'Superman: For Tomorrow' where he treated her like she was nothing and was bitchslapping her around with ease. Too bad her "superior reflexes" didn't allow her to dodge all those attacks. I guess she just let him bitchslap her around because she enjoyed it, right? 🙄

Oh wait... That's right... That wasn't combat speed Superman was using. Superman was using "travel speed' while he was slapping her around. 🙄

So can you actually post without attacking someone? Or is that too difficult?

If we are going by nu52 speed how does it change? What speed feats or statements does WW have to help her out there? Nothing at all to my knowledge. In the final issue of Superman Unchained it was outright stated that Supes was the only one fast enough to get to the alien fleet. Also, Supes has a ton of other feats as well in nu52. What does WW have?

Supergirl not being able to touch Wonder Woman when she got serious and this is the same Supergirl who was able to match Flash in a previous issue to the point that they had an entire battle in less than a second. Same Supergirl who kept up in a fight against Superman. The fts are there.

I don't seem to remember WW being faster than Supergirl. In fact, I seem to remember WW saying that she beat Supergirl because of superior skill and experience. Also, I seem to remember that Supergirl didn't match flash's top speed, she just surprised him with how fast she was. Doesn't mean she matched flash's best.

Just because WW fought a character who is fast, doesn't mean she's as fast or faster than that character. Honestly, this seems like reaching to me Carv my man.

Originally posted by emporerpants
I don't seem to remember WW being faster than Supergirl. In fact, I seem to remember WW saying that she beat Supergirl because of superior skill and experience. Also, I seem to remember that Supergirl didn't match flash's top speed, she just surprised him with how fast she was. Doesn't mean she matched flash's best.

Just because WW fought a character who is fast, doesn't mean she's as fast or faster than that character. Honestly, this seems like reaching to me Carv my man.

"Shes too fast".

Right after this, Wonder Woman ties her up before she could react.

She moves so fast, I never have a chance.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/Screenshot_2014-08-28-17-49-24_zps9a2fba61.png.html?sort=9&o=188

Now do I need to post Supergirl fight against Superman?

Impressive indeed, and a good feat for sure. I had forgotten that the text said that. Still, it seems like it was a quick burst of speed based on battle experience and Kara being predictable. I highly doubt that WW has superior speed compared to Kara. In addition, wasn't there text where WW herself said their stats are pretty equal or perhaps even implied that Kara's might potentially be greater?

Go ahead and post the scans of supes and Kara's "fight." It means nothing. At no point in Supes and Supergirls fight was Superman ACTUALLY FIGHTING BACK. So what relevance would posting their "fight" have? Or where you going to leave out that context and be misleading?

Originally posted by emporerpants
Impressive indeed, and a good feat for sure. I had forgotten that the text said that. Still, it seems like it was a quick burst of speed based on battle experience and Kara being predictable. I highly doubt that WW has superior speed compared to Kara. In addition, wasn't there text where WW herself said their stats are pretty equal or perhaps even implied that Kara's might potentially be greater?

Go ahead and post the scans of supes and Kara's "fight." It means nothing. At no point in Supes and Supergirls fight was Superman ACTUALLY FIGHTING BACK. So what relevance would posting their "fight" have? Or where you going to leave out that context and be misleading?

She said they are closely matched which means that there is still a gap and we seen that gap. Look at the scan. Diana ties her up before she could react. tied her up around the neck and waste in one panel.

Diana was holding back against Kara as well and Kara still had trouble with Diana speed. Superman was holding back as well and didn't do as close as good against Kara as Diana did concerning speed.

Meh, it still seems as if WW was implying that Kara could potentially be better than her in physical stats, but just isn't skilled enough to make it matter against someone as skilled as WW. Still, it is a good speed feat, I just don't think it puts her on supes level while you do. Agree to disagree. 🙂

The difference is though, WW was actually fighting back and trying to take Kara down. Supes never once did that. Every time he tried to talk her down rather than throw a punch.

If we want to go by fights, didn't Kara get stomped by a Superman clone who Superman himself then stomped? Also, didn't she get effortlessly stomped by H'el. In fact, she attacked H'el and bounced right off without causing any damage, whilst when Supes fought H'el, he was pounding the crap out of H'el and had H'el on the ropes several times.

Originally posted by emporerpants
Meh, it still seems as if WW was implying that Kara could potentially be better than her in physical stats, but just isn't skilled enough to make it matter against someone as skilled as WW. Still, it is a good speed feat, I just don't think it puts her on supes level while you do. Agree to disagree. 🙂

The difference is though, WW was actually fighting back and trying to take Kara down. Supes never once did that. Every time he tried to talk her down rather than throw a punch.

If we want to go by fights, didn't Kara get stomped by a Superman clone who Superman himself then stomped? Also, didn't she get effortlessly stomped by H'el. In fact, she attacked H'el and bounced right off without causing any damage, whilst when Supes fought H'el, he was pounding the crap out of H'el and had H'el on the ropes several times.

Agree to disagree then.

Wonder Woman was talking throughout the entire fight, even during the time she subdued Supergirl she was conversing with her. She only decided to drop her during the end because Supergirl kept pressing her attack.

IIRC When Superman fought that clone, it was dying. Wasn't close to being 100%. I could be wrong though. Please post the scans.

Now if we want to talk about fights, how about WW blocking a hit from Faora, while at the same time redirecting Zod heat vision back at him. Then she overpowers Faora while proceeding at burning her face. Flies over and knee Zod in the face.

http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shogunofharlem1/media/Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-017_zps2f7ade38.jpg.html

She then grab Zod and land another punch in the face which drew blood.

http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shogunofharlem1/media/Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-018_zpsc0831be2.jpg.html

Then, WW not only overpowers Faora, she toss her away like a step child.

http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shogunofharlem1/media/Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-020_zps886fcd2d.jpg.html

Both Zod and Faora were in the same league as Superman. How do we know that? In the scan above Zod is about to kill Superman (and he doesn't deny that WW would kill him if he killed Superman. Hell, he actually agrees with her that he would die by WW if he killed Superman) and here, Zod effortlessly breaks Superman arm like a twig.

http://postimg.org/image/d8itv7ba9/

She did all of that without getting touched.

Thats not it though. Mongul had enough power to go head on with an amped Batman and Superman and was winning. Superman admitted at one point he couldn't beat Mongul alone. Wonder Woman not only defeats Mongul, she defeats him and he had the aid of another Kryptonian.

I think WW is being ignored tremendously. To my knowledge, she doesn't have a single loss under her belt yet (minus First Born) and she has been fighting some powerful opponents. WW is a solid High Herald.

Talking doesn't mean not trying hard. People talk during fights in comics all the time. Anyway you slice it, she was still fighting back hard, while SM didn't even fight back during his encounters with Kara. Hence any comparison is pointless.

I have the comic but not the scans. I haven't read it in awhile, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't weakened. I could be wrong though.

Who is saying WW isn't HH? I agree that she is. I just don't think she is a match for Supes. You keep using that fight in SM/WW, but what about when Doomsday broke her arms in one hit, and then a more powerful Doomsday was ripped in half by SM? Do we ignore that? Do we ignore all the lip service Supes gets from everyone saying he is the most powerful? Do we ignore WW herself saying Supes is the most powerful? Do we ignore the fact that Superman is the only one strong enough to take down Doomsday? Do we ignore the fact that Superman has feats MUCH greater than everyone else including WW?

Superman is in my opinion above WW and would take her 6 or 7/10. That said, WW is a solid HH and doesn't get the credit she deserves from some people.

In the end Carv, my stance is that Supes stats outdo WW by a decent amount, an amount that she closes a bit with superior skill. Still, Supes has enough of an advantage with his stats and powers to get the majority in my opinion. WW's stats are close enough that with her skill she can pull some wins though.

Originally posted by Q99
*Shrugs* Repeatedly ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

You know, like pretty much everything you say on the subject. She's actually beaten Superman and fought him on good terms numerous terms and covering your ears and going 'la la la' about what happens when directly compared in universe is still the best you can come up with.

Also, I want to say that I appreciate talking with you Carv. It's nice to have a little exchange that doesn't involve someone calling the other stupid in more and more elaborate ways.

Originally posted by emporerpants
Talking doesn't mean not trying hard. People talk during fights in comics all the time. Anyway you slice it, she was still fighting back hard, while SM didn't even fight back during his encounters with Kara. Hence any comparison is pointless.

I have the comic but not the scans. I haven't read it in awhile, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't weakened. I could be wrong though.

Who is saying WW isn't HH? I agree that she is. I just don't think she is a match for Supes. You keep using that fight in SM/WW, but what about when Doomsday broke her arms in one hit, and then a more powerful Doomsday was ripped in half by SM? Do we ignore that? Do we ignore all the lip service Supes gets from everyone saying he is the most powerful? Do we ignore WW herself saying Supes is the most powerful? Do we ignore the fact that Superman is the only one strong enough to take down Doomsday? Do we ignore the fact that Superman has feats MUCH greater than everyone else including WW?

Superman is in my opinion above WW and would take her 6 or 7/10. That said, WW is a solid HH and doesn't get the credit she deserves from some people.

In the end Carv, my stance is that Supes stats outdo WW by a decent amount, an amount that she closes a bit with superior skill. Still, Supes has enough of an advantage with his stats and powers to get the majority in my opinion. WW's stats are close enough that with her skill she can pull some wins though.

Her second fight against Doomsday...

She temporarily dropped him with a single hit and could have ended it if she didn't stand there looking at him. Superman intervened after that showing and this was Doomsday at his Prime.

Superman is extremely powerful and I dont have a problem with anyone thinking he is more powerful than Diana but an argument can be made for Diana being in the same tier. Overall, I dont agree with people getting bashed here because they are giving their opinion. I guess we can end it here. We agreed to disagreed earlier and again, I dont have any issues with you thinking Superman is stronger and faster because we are talking about SUPERMAN here. I just think its debatable.