Originally posted by Stealth Moose
My god, I've been e-judged by a pseudo-sentient fool! Le Gasp!
Yes, but Darth Power can't help it. It's just how he is. 😛
Originally posted by Zampanó
yo, ima let you finish but Dark_Serpent was one of the best posters of all time! OF ALL TIMESpoiler:
I suspect Battlemasterput me on ignore.Spoiler:
Hey guys, do you remember Sorgo/Genesis? He was coolSpoiler:
hi ush
Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
No one called JA!Luke a Force god, nor do you have to be one to be stronger than JA!Kyle.LOTF!Luke, the man who telekinetically manipulated artificial black holes , slaughtered a veritable army of Yuuzhan Vong, and overpowered UnuThul in single combat was nearly killed in combat by Lumiya, a veritable pipsqueak due to her incomplete training and cyborg implants, who was in turn nearly killed by lightweight Tresina Lobi, despite assistance from rogue Jedi Alema Rar. By your reckoning, Lumiya and Tresina must each be superior to LOTF!Luke in combat.
Desann's momentary advantage owes not to superior powers, skills, or training but to Luke's restraint.
It doesn't change the fact that Luke could have used his Powerful TK to send a chunk of debris into the side of Desann's head, knocking him out in an act of charitable mercy.
Instead, he was overwhelmed by a temper tantrum, and allowed a madman to escape, potentially endangering the lives of millions of innocents.
Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
Given that JA!Katarn has spent even less time as a Jedi than JA!Luke and lacks Skywalker's unparalleled Force aptitude...? Yes?
I was speaking of Peak Kyle.
Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
Almost as much as your argument's in, certainly. I suppose we can end the discussion since Kyle isn't Desann, so there's no way he could beat Luke!
Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
I have already provided ample reasons for why JA!Luke was briefly overcome by Desann. That you deliberately neglect them in order to continue your Katarn-inspired masturbation sessions isn't my problem.
I'm no big fan of Kyle Katarn. I think he's a nice character, but that's about it.
I also don't feel inclined to make excuses about Luke either, though.
I already put some good points about that situation above; I think you'd better go read it again.
Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
Given your lack of expertise in either area, I'm skeptical.
Hey, you're the one who puts Gideon on a pedastal. I should be the skeptical one, here. 😛
Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
Then you should probably plead with one of them to take the lead here.
Maybe they should take the lead with your arguments? 😉
Then you'd actually get somewhere.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You're just arguing in circles.According to you, DE Sidious is weak because he got beat by DE Luke, whilst DE Luke is weak because he had help from a padawan in defeating DE Sidious.
It's like me saying Mace Windu is weak because he had the help of 3 Jedi Masters in confronting Sidious. And Darth Sidious was weak because he lost to Mace.
Confused? Yes so am I by your arguments.
I'm not suprised you're confused. 😛
Mace didn't need those three Jedi Masters there. They were gone for the majority of his fight, anyway.
Darth Sidious lost to Vapaad and it's user, who was one of the greatest Jedi Masters to ever live. He's not weak for that.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's cited in Empire's End that she used BM. That's the source you need to use for future reference.I looked up the source myself because you had none. And I go by facts instead of just putting my faith in your half truths and speculations.
Not just you personally. I wouldn't have taken Jaunus's word for it either without the source. Simply because people have bias, give half truths or just give pure speculation.
In this case none of you gave the source, and conveniently missed out that it was clearly stated her BM was only "Elementary" Level.
A Padawan using Elementary level BM just further proves my original point to you that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker must have done the vast majority of the work in defeating DE Palpatine. The most powerful incarnation of Palpatine to date no less.
I don't have the novel on me.
And it doesn't change the fact that he needed outside help, and we all know how the power of Battle Meditation changes fights - it's why a mere Padawan with the gift like Bastilla, was so highly valued in the Republic's war efforts.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Or it could be Pro's testing your knowledge and debating ability by seeing if you can even prove a case as simple as that.
Nephthys and Stealth Moose haven't tested me on anything thus far. 😉
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Yes, but Darth Power can't help it. It's just how he is. 😛Hey, you're the one who puts Gideon on a pedastal. I should be the skeptical one, here. 😛
I argued against Gideon more than once, and yet still respected him as a debator on these boards.
He was one of the most knowledgeable in SW lore on these boards and based all his arguments on facts.
How you put Stealth Moose above him in knowledge of SW lore and/or in debating skills is beyond me.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
I'm not suprised you're confused. 😛Mace didn't need those three Jedi Masters there. They were gone for the majority of his fight, anyway.
Darth Sidious lost to Vapaad and it's user, who was one of the greatest Jedi Masters to ever live. He's not weak for that.
Need I remind you of our debate on the matter where you claimed that even if I had a 9 year old helping me in beating up a huge guy, it would still mean I "needed" help to do it.
According to your own argument style, he had help, so he needed help so that completely nullifies the entire feat. Take it up with yourself. 😛
Originally posted by Battlemaster
And it doesn't change the fact that he needed outside help, and we all know how the power of Battle Meditation changes fights - it's why a mere Padawan with the gift like Bastilla, was so highly valued in the Republic's war efforts.
Again Leia only demonstrated "Elementary" level BM from a Padawan. And with that Luke defeated a more powerful version of the same Sith Lord Mace Windu was stalemating in Sabers. (He defated him via his shatterpoint ability).
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I argued against Gideon more than once, and yet still respected him as a debator on these boards.He was one of the most knowledgeable in SW lore on these boards and based all his arguments on facts.
How you put Stealth Moose above him in knowledge of SW lore and/or in debating skills is beyond me.
There are plenty of people on here that are good at debating.
If Gideon was in an argument over Hitler's hair-color with someone, and Gideon claimed it was green, even though it's black, he could still consistently hammer away at the topic, bringing up every argument he could, and there would be plenty of other people taking his side because of it.
Past history has told me that Stealth Moose has been pretty consistently right about the majority of his arguments, and at the end of the day he still takes victory or defeat like a champ.
On the other hand, if Gideon had his pride wounded too many times in a row, his posts were likely to spiral down into petty insults.
I appreciate Gideon's passion when he argues - but I value the accuracy that Stealth Moose's debates have and the grace that doesn't seem to leave his attitude.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Need I remind you of our debate on the matter where you claimed that even if I had a 9 year old helping me in beating up a huge guy, it would still mean I "needed" help to do it.According to your own argument style, he had help, so he needed help so that completely nullifies the entire feat. Take it up with yourself. 😛
He survived and kicked Sidious's ass, so he didn't need help for the first 10 seconds they were with him.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Again Leia only demonstrated "Elementary" level BM from a Padawan. And with that Luke defeated a more powerful version of the same Sith Lord Mace Windu was stalemating in Sabers.
More powerful in the sense that he was in the presence of a Dark side Nexus when he defeated Luke, and had the Force Storm ability.
Other than that, I didn't see much evidence of him being more powerful.
I'd think that RotS Sidious would murder Luke's friends during the times that they opted to off him, later on.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He defated him via his shatterpoint ability).
Uh. Duh.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
There are plenty of people on here that are good at debating.If Gideon was in an argument over Hitler's hair-color with someone, and Gideon claimed it was green, even though it's black, he could still consistently hammer away at the topic, bringing up every argument he could, and there would be plenty of other people taking his side because of it.
Past history has told me that Stealth Moose has been pretty consistently right about the majority of his arguments, and at the end of the day he still takes victory or defeat like a champ.
On the other hand, if Gideon had his pride wounded too many times in a row, his posts were likely to spiral down into petty insults.
I appreciate Gideon's passion when he argues - but I value the accuracy that Stealth Moose's debates have and the grace that doesn't seem to leave his attitude.
Stealth seems to know more about KOTOR era, I'll give him that. But generally Gideon had much more knowledge. The debates between him and Borbarad were always informative (and entertaining).
Yes his opinions were fallible as are everybody's. And I know Gideon did argue with pride a lot and would hardly ever accept that his opponent might have a point. But I've not seen Stealth behaving any better.
I still face palm over the way he went at me on his pointless Savage Opress vs Obi-Wan thread. And no he definetely wasn't right there. He was proven wrong the next season when Opress defeated Obi-Wan in literally a few seconds.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Stealth seems to know more about KOTOR era, I'll give him that. But generally Gideon had much more knowledge. The debates between him and Borbarad were always informative (and entertaining).Yes his opinions were fallible as are everybody's. And I know Gideon did argue with pride a lot and would hardly ever accept that his opponent might have a point. But I've not seen Stealth behaving any better.
I still face palm over the way he went at me on his pointless Savage Opress vs Obi-Wan thread. And no he definetely wasn't right there. He was proven wrong the next season when Opress defeated Obi-Wan in literally a few seconds.
This again. You do realize, Darth Powah, that you entirely failed to prove an argument. It wasn't your conclusion I was entirely unwilling to see; it was the way in which you said "It's self-evident; therefore, it's true. Addendum to this, I saw it, therefore it is true. LOL at your credibility."
And it was entirely clear that you attacked me before the debate had even moved beyond the initial disagreement stage and ended up balls-deep into the "FU red herring rinse repeat" stage:
You:
Lol how could anyone possibly give wisdom to a guy who just denies clear evidence shown to him on screen.If Lucas told you himself Oppress is a good tier above the likes of Obi-Wan/Ventress you'd still deny it. You'd probably rationalise your denial by saying he wasn't making a canon statement, or whatever crap you usually come out with to justify your insane arguments.
Keep in mind you engaged in e-battle after I had already spent many pages attempting to get some better reason out of Gideon, who, for all his PT-era excess of knowledge, could not see some of the same gaping flaws that you apparently fell for as well. Already annoyed with his inability to provide a cohesive argument for himself, then you leap in with the grace of a leper ewok and mangle the English language while chirping the same mindless rhetoric again and again.
As much as it pains me dearly to not have won your e-respect, the point remains that you and I had not spoken in months if not years before that thread. Your instant-aggression followed by a pathetic excuse of "Nuh uh, I think this, therefore it is" fully paved the way for being insulted out of hand as "not worth debating", because at that point you've moved from some kind of objective reasoning to simply repeating your assertions and attacking the opposition.
This isn't to say that I hate you or anything; I genuinely don't. I just think you couldn't debate your way out of a wet paper bag, so seeing you say things I can't help but think it's like Flo Rida or Diane Sawyer telling a neurosurgeon how to do their job.
Janus, one time I tried to call you out for being mean. (Maybe more than once.) Please consider that sentiment to be fully retracted and stricken from the universal record.
The lines "grace of a leper ewok," "you couldn't debate your way out of a wet paper bag," and "Diane Sawyer telling a neurosurgeon how to do their job" have entered into my personal headcanon of best things ever said on KMC.
Don't ever change.