Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your arguments are not making sense anymore. I suggest that you do some serious thinking before you respond next time. Their is no need to rush.
To your nonsense logic my arguments will never make sense. I told you already, stop this useless comments, it is insulting and doesn't help.
Really? Their are several examples which prove that Vitiate does not needs to subdue his opponent first to mentally dominate him/her. Your analysis is insignifcant/incomplete.Even during second confrontation with Revan, Vitiate attempted to crush Revan's will without defeating him first. Revan saved himself with a special move. Otherwise......
I have pinpointed before that Vitiate's mental powers work like a weapon.
On video he used Force lightning until every Jedi fell. Prove that he or any known character in entire EU could utilize force lightning and mind domination simultaneously. In book Vitiate never showed that.
No.
Ye. That's really great argument. Vitiate that never faced someone at least as nearly as powerful as himself cannot be surprised. And Marek with his TK capable to move star destroyers is nothing surprising.
This is your opinion and not an established fact. Satele's reluctance has solid basis. She confronted many Sith but not Vitiate. Tol Braga's downfall further reinforced her perception.
Listen, your argument about Satele Shan becoming mind dominated is opinion as well. Whatever you say, you cannot prove that she is defenseless against mind domination.
Watch this alternate ending:This gives you important clues about where Sidious stands in terms of power. And what could happen, if Sidious really had decided to kill Marek.
So now you try to prove your point with non-canon material. 👆
Fact is that Sidious did not wanted to kill Marek. He was in search for a better apprentice then Vader and Marek fit the bill. However, this was not to happen because Marek rejected the dark side - thanks to Vader's betrayals.In the canonical ending, when Marek died; both Vader and Sidious were unhappy.
Get the memo now?
This fact was valid until Palpatine had to fight Marek. When they started fighting, there was clear intention of him killing Marek. Good luck with proving that Palpatine was holding back in fight with Marek 👆.
Repeated refusals like these will get you nowhere.
Where your refusals will get you? There are facts playing in both favors.
Nice contradiction here.
It is not contradiction. First statement is realistic analysis that both Satele and Marek might be mind dominated as well as resist it. Second statement is my own opinion as facts playing in my favor are enough to convince me personally.
We are not exchanging candies here. My intent is to establish most logical assessment of this hypothetical fight.
Your most logical assessment made you believe that Vitiate could utilize Force lightning and mind domination simultaneously 😄 And there is nothing logical in trying to prove that Vitiate pawns and mind dominates every single most powerful Jedi in the EU.
If you are willing to open your mind and look outside the box of your personal likings, I am willing to work with you.
I don't like either of these characters. And I already told you to stop talking this kind of shit. Yet, you continue doing exactly that, it is unnecessary provocation.
Vitiate's capability to mentally dominate both Satele and Marek should not be questioned without solid reasons. Vitiate's mental powers are extremely effective, as apparent from canonical information at hand.
Even if Marek and Satele somehow miraculously prevent Vitiate from mentally dominating them, he is far from being helpless. But yes, victory is possible in this scenario since both Satele and Marek are very strong and can coordinate their efforts. But this is just one possibility.
Either Satele or Marek alone have a chance against Vitiate like it or not. There are plenty of facts supporting both your and my opinions. You can't win it.
Still not on par with Vitiate's capability in this aspect. Palpatine managed to break Luke under favorable circumstances.
Luke is one of the most powerful users known. Vitiate, also, had favorable circumstances, when he dominated Revan and Malak. And unlike Revan and Malak Luke wasn't caught off guard by surprise. And Palpatine didn't need to render him unconscious like in the case with Jedi strike team.
To be honest, Marek is not that special as you make him out to be. Yes, he is very powerful but he not invincible.
Sure, flooring Palpatine is nothing special...
Mental powers came naturally to Vitiate and have served him well against heavy odds.
Never argued against that.
Yes! Vitiate was stronger in this case but by how much margin? He was only 10 years old here.
If he started practicing his mind domination from 6 year old, then 4 years is enough time to reach your power levels.
Some years later;
"Once they arrived on Nathema, they quickly fell under Lord Vitiate's control. He dominated their minds, crushed their resistance. He turned them into slaves to his will, forcing them to participate in the most complex ritual of Sith sorcery ever attempted. Calling on the dark side, Lord Vitiate devoured them. He fed on their power, absorbing it into himself, utterly obliterating all traces of his victims."
Vitiate against one hundred other Sith Lords. Brilliant by any stretch.
WHAT? It was ritual performed with their participation. In no way it was Vitiate vs 100 Sith.
Even JK fell to Vitiate's influence who was immensely powerful as per Vitiate's own admission. Mind you, JK was not weak during first confrontation with Vitiate. During this particular confrontation, Scourge pointed out to JK that he has not met any one as powerful from the Jedi Order and that JK was the Order's finest.
And again JK and his comrades were floored with Force lightning. Video proves it. And with mental guard down it's not a big deal to dominate someone.
These examples do not support your intended argument. Luke got help in each of these examples. None of these examples establish that Luke used his intelligence to defeat more powerful adversaries by himself.
you keep lowballing Luke's intelligence and praise Vitiate's.
Here is summary:
LukeLuke spent years of training in lightsaber combat and in the Force. Many times faced more powerful foes. Many times he faced situations, where odds were against him. Many times he had to somehow outwit opponents. Many times he engaged against multiple opponents. Lightsaber combat for instance requires intelligence everytime, it's not as simple as playing baseball. He always had to make self assessment, mainain his calm, think about right approach. Seek help from others and being able to coordinate with them in combat is, also, part of intelligence.
Vitiate
He never needed to learn lightsaber combat at all.
His power alone compensated everything.
Never had to try to outwit opponent in combat. His superior power allowed him in all cases simply mind dominate opponents without need to fight. A few times, when mind domination didn't work he used lightning, which is another way to overpower opponent without need to come up with anything clever.
Dooku for example used lightning intelligently in CW, he used lightning at the right moment catching Ventress and Anakin off guard because otherwise they would have blocked it with lightsaber. Same for Sidious, he caught Yoda off guard in combat, so Yoda got disarmed and had to absorb with bare hands.
In Vitiate's case he simply got pissed and started gathering power giving Revan time to gether his powers as well. There is nothing clever in that and this is NOT intelligent way of handling someone. Vitiate's power was such that while child without need to learn any skills he utilized mind domination alone. So you call 6 year old child intelligent and skilled combatant?
Even, if Luke didn't need intelligence as much as some others, he still needed it >>>> than Vitiate because Vitiate's power was >>>> than Luke's. There is not single example of Vitiate trying to outwit opponent because his superior power always allowed him to overpower them (except JK).
What?
Abeloth was mortal human that gained power by bathing in Pool of Knowledge and Font of Power. Daughter bathed in Pool of Knowledge only. Talon did that as well and in books it was stated that he was becoming another Abeloth.
Also, being Force exhausted, is not an valid argument in case of Gary-Stues like Luke and Ben.
No need to be ignorant and discard arguments not playing in favor of your opinion.
Perfect indication of arguing for the sake of arguement.
I merely respond to your insult with insult. No more, no less.
So a duel can be more exhausting then a Galaxy-wide ritual? 🙄
Yoda fell down unable to even slow his fall. Koro Zill just collapsed face first. Exhausted is exhausted whether it is some ritual or fight.